When to add a yellow tang/Live Rock Questions

[lcaldwell85]

Hello! This will be my first post to your community forum. I happened onto it after having a very unpleasant experience with another forum online from someone who obviously needs manner lessons, so I will repeat my question here.
I have a fully cycled 72 gallon bowfront tank, the last of the diatom just died off. It is currently housing a mated pair of false perculas, a coral beauty, and one green chromis (I had three because I had read they like to school in odd numbers, but unfortunately two of them died.) Everything in the tank perimeters are on point, the tank is staying a level 78 degrees, and salinty is between 1.025 and 1.026. There are also two peppermint shrimp, two small starfish (I'm not sure what sort. They're very small and are kind of a greyish green color. A gift from a friend with an established tank), ten blue legged hermit crabs, some snails, a lowlight mushroom, and two large rocks covered in yellow star polyps. I had a small outbreak of ich a few weeks back, with the coral beauty doing some random scratching on the live rock (which has stopped) and a small spot on one of my clowns that seemed to clear within two fresh water dips. I have only around 30 lbs of live rock right now, which I know is too little, but I'm adding a bit at a time. My question to the initial party was, how much live rock should I have for the yellow tang to be sufficiently happy in the environment? Unfortunately the entire conversation thread turned into me being barraged about putting Liverock from my LFS into the tank instead of putting in dry rock and curing my own. The general thought was that the liverock would die and create ammonia spikes in my water during transit. Is this really a problem when I only live twenty minutes from the fish store and they bag it in water for me? Aside from that, my initial question about the tang was never answered. Also, is a ten gallon too small for the tang to be happy in during his observation period? My hospital tank is only that large. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

 

[btldreef]

Welcome to the forum! I hope you have a better experience here!
I'll answer the live rock issue first: No it's not an issue. I do it all the time. If you're buying CURED live rock from your LFS, you're fine. If you want to take the extra precaution, bring a bucket of saltwater with you and ask them to put the rock in the bucket so that it stays wet to ensure no die off occurs at all, but 20 minutes in a bag with water is not going to kill it. Heck, when I'm rearranging rock work in my tank, some of my pieces are out of water for an hour. People get really caught up on this, and I can see where they're trying to warn a newcomer not to but uncured rock or rock with die off into their tank, but 20 minutes is not going to cause some tremendous spike of ammonia and kill your tank.
Now for how much more live rock to add. There is a general consensus that will tell you 1-2lbs per gallon. I'm not in that school of thought. I don't weight my LR, nor does my LFS that I buy most of it from, they sell pieces in a series of sizes and how it's formed, more pleasing shaped pieces draw a higher price. There's also the issue of wet live rock weighing more than dry live rock, so weight is always relative to that. To save myself the hassle, I just don't dwell on it. Do what looks good to the eye and naturally flows with the tank. You want space for corals and space for fish to swim in and out of and that allows good water movement through the rocks to prevent the build up of detritus (fish poop).
The tang. Personally, I'm not a fan of a tang in anything smaller than 90G, as they are open water swimmers, and smaller tanks tend to make them more aggressive. That being said, many people have done it. Tangs are grazers and you're smart to want to provide established live rock for it to graze off of throughout the day. When to add the tang is really going to depend on how your LR looks and how established it is. I usually don't like to through any larger grazers into a tank that is less than 6 months old. This gives plenty of time to really let your rock get established. The size of your QT is really dependent on the size of the fish. (Kudos to you for having a QT by the way). A 10G could work for a 3" tang for observation, but I wouldn't be putting a 5" one in that size tank.
The ich issue: If you only dipped your fish, it's very likely that the ich is actually still present in your system and your fish are just healthy enough to not show any signs of it. The only way to actually rid your system of it is to remove the fish for 6-8 weeks and quarantine them and run hypo salinity or copper treatment in the QT. Ich can live in the rock work of your main tank for 6-8 weeks and can't survive any longer without a host. I would suggest QT'ing your current fish in your 10G and leaving your main tank fallow before adding any other fish, especially a tang, that is prone to ich. The last thing you want to do is go through the process of QT'ing a fish only to add it to the main display and it break out in ich, the very thing you were trying to prevent in the first place. Newer fish are more prone to catching ich than fish that are established in a tank. For example: I am well aware that my tank has ich. My fish have had it for years, but there is no way for me to QT 20+ fish at once, it's just not going to happen. I keep them healthy and rarely see signs of it unless something goes wrong in the tank. However, when I add a new fish, they will almost always show signs of ich right away until they become more established in the tank. Some even perish because they can't handle it. It's a battle that I've fought for years and rather not see other people deal with. So while you only have a few fish, rid the ich situation.
Chromis. You're not alone. They pick each other off. I wish people would stop saying they're a schooling fish. The fact is, they're poor shippers and they're aggressive with their own kind. Sure, they school in large tanks and in the wild, but in home tanks, they just kill each other.

 

[lcaldwell85]

Wow. I had no idea on the chromis. And I was thinking the little guy might be lonely and preparing to buy him a couple of mates. Inre: The ich situation. If I expose my hospital tank to copper (It's only got sand and liverock in it) will the fish carry traces of it back to the main tank when I transfer them back or would it even be enough to create a problem? Will the copper harm the bacteria in the tank? I'm just worried about the starfish etc in my main display... And is it okay while I have them in treatment to continue to build my liverock and corals in the main tank? I didn't know if I should leave everything completely undisturbed until I'm sure the ich has died off. Tangs are just so classically salt water I would love to have one, but if you think that he would be unhappy in my tank I don't want to make him uncomfortable. This is a problem I find I'm running into frequently. I absolutely love imperators, but it's impossible to keep one for longer than a year in my size restriction. At that point I'd become too attached to let him go I'm sure and he'd just be unhappy. I found something called a scribbled angel that looked comparable to an emperor but it's around a six hundred dollar fish, and I read that they're caught with cyanide. Off the top of your head can you think of any fish that would resemble these two (in coloration at the very least) that would be happy in my set up? I would also like to add a mandarin, but I'm not even going to attempt that until my tank has been established for at least a year.

 

[njbillyv]

Welcome, I'm new here to and everyeone's been very nice and helpful.
I'd say that the general opinion is that a 72 is to small for a Yellow Tang. They also get fairly agressive so if you do decide to get one anyway, add it last. I recently had to remove mine from a 75 because of the agression issue and it was no easy task. So unless you really love them, I'd say to pass.
Good luck!

 

[lcaldwell85]

It's looking more like a pass on that one, NJBillyV. Just looking for something similar in coloration now! Any ideas? Thanks for the response. People do seem a lot more friendly here. On the last site it was actually a moderator that was speaking to me in a very rude manner. Example: "Get 30 more pounds of dry rock and cure it for three months before you add anything to your set up" "I can get thirty more lbs from my LFS." And the response was something like "Did I tell you to purchase live rock? I told you to cure it." LOL. Things like that don't go over well with me, hence jumping to a new forum!

 

[btldreef]

Quote:
Originally Posted by lcaldwell85 http:///t/390699/when-to-add-a-yellow-tang-live-rock-questions#post_3461356
Wow. I had no idea on the chromis. And I was thinking the little guy might be lonely and preparing to buy him a couple of mates. Yeah, save your money. Inre: The ich situation. If I expose my hospital tank to copper (It's only got sand and liverock in it There actually should not be ANY sand or live rock in your QT tank. I recommend removing this. Use different sizes of PVC piping to give your fish places to hide) will the fish carry traces of it back to the main tank when I transfer them back or would it even be enough to create a problem? Will the copper harm the bacteria in the tank? If you acclimate the fish correctly from the QT back to the main display, there should be no transfer of copper. That being said, I would treat with hypo salinity for ich, rather than copper treatment. Hypo is much gentler on a fish, and some fish can't tolerate copper at all. Both take just as long to treat, but hypo is much, much safer IMO. I'm just worried about the starfish etc in my main display... And is it okay while I have them in treatment to continue to build my liverock and corals in the main tank? I didn't know if I should leave everything completely undisturbed until I'm sure the ich has died off. You should be able to add more live rock without any issues, you can even add inverts, just no fish during the 6-8 week period. Tangs are just so classically salt water I would love to have one, but if you think that he would be unhappy in my tank I don't want to make him uncomfortable. This is a problem I find I'm running into frequently. I absolutely love imperators, but it's impossible to keep one for longer than a year in my size restriction. It's not impossible, but I wouldn't recommend it to be honest. There are some tangs, specifically the bristletooth family that will work. Look for Ctenochaetus species tangs, these stay small enough to stay in your tank without much issue. At that point I'd become too attached to let him go I'm sure and he'd just be unhappy. I found something called a scribbled angel that looked comparable to an emperor but it's around a six hundred dollar fish, and I read that they're caught with cyanide. Ahh, one of my favorites is the Scribbled Angelfish. Off the top of your head can you think of any fish that would resemble these two (in coloration at the very least) that would be happy in my set up?Not off the top of my head, but if I think of anything I'll let you know. I would also like to add a mandarin, but I'm not even going to attempt that until my tank has been established for at least a year.

 

[lcaldwell85]

Thanks for all your help!

 

[al&burke]

I have added dry rock to my set ups with out problems, base rock is dead as far as I am concerned. I think he used the wrong terminology when he said curing the rock.