Which angel is more hardy -? An Emperor or a Queen-?

95harley

Active Member
Originally Posted by GTDAROCK
http:///forum/post/2650459
Hey Harley ! Wow, what a beautiful angel, simply gorgeous. I just seen mine at the LFS, she is about 4 in. I wouldn't say Juvi, but looks like it just got the adult colors. The blue trim, is very bright. Harley, where do you buy the nori sheets-?
Local Asian Grocery store they sell it for sushi chef's. You can buy 1000 8x10" sheets for the price of 100 4x4" sheets at your LFS.
 
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rcreations

Guest
I just got that Queen not too long ago. She's only about 2" right now.
 
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gtdarock

Guest
Thanks Harley, I pass by a store tonight. Hey,RCreations, what are you feeding your Queen-?
 
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rcreations

Guest
I feed it my home made food of fish, shrimp, scallops, squid, clams and nori sheets. I chop all this in the food processor and then freeze it in sheets. All the fish love it! From time to time I give it some emerald entree frozen food and it also eats nori that I give to my tang and foxface.
 

hefner413

Active Member
Originally Posted by 95Harley
http:///forum/post/2650539
Local Asian Grocery store they sell it for sushi chef's. You can buy 1000 8x10" sheets for the price of 100 4x4" sheets at your LFS.
Yeah, I just realized this when I went to the Asian market to get squid - just happened to see the nori. It was $1.00 for a huge pack. Compared to the fish store?.. yeah, Man, I can't believe the markup on fish items!
 
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gtdarock

Guest
Hey guys ! I the queen today. Very nice colors. I am just a little worried that she's been breathing pretty heavy, since in the tank. What do you think is wrong-? Levels are fine, Nitrate is at 30
 

bioneck47

Member
Originally Posted by GTDAROCK
http:///forum/post/2651482
Hey guys ! I the queen today. Very nice colors. I am just a little worried that she's been breathing pretty heavy, since in the tank. What do you think is wrong-? Levels are fine, Nitrate is at 30
It's probably just stress. He's been through a lot to make it into your tank. How did you acclimate it? Just leave him alone for the time being and leave the lights off. Also make sure he's got a good hiding place to recover in. Good luck!
 
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gtdarock

Guest
:
I lost the Queen, gone within hours. I acclimated her following SWF.com procedure. She was breathing hard from the bag. After 2 1/2 hours, I put her in the tank, she went to the back, and stay one place breathing heavy. After an hour or so, she started to swim to the front of the tank, but still breathing heavy. Then an 1/2 hour later she wedge her self between a rock, so I kept a close eyes on her, then mins later, she started to swim in the dreaded 360, knocking into everything, then she finally laid flat on the sand and the was it. I am in a total stay of shock. I bought the Queen and a Yellow tang today. This was my second Queen. The tang doing good. So I just checked my readings, and everything is good except the Nitrates, its between 80- 100. Its blood red. So thats it for me ! No more fish until I get that dam Nitrate down to 0. Its been killing all my new lifestock, one after one. Within the last 3 months, I lost - a golden puffer,large Queen,Tusk,Naso and the Queen from today. So I am not buying anymore fish. Whatever I do, I can't get the Nitrates down. I change 32 gal every two weeks, pads every two weeks. I use tap water, but I checked for Nitrates, and the readings are 10. I have a refugium, but anytime I add cheato, it dies after 2 weeks. I got a new Bermuda skimmer. I don't know what else to do, I am almost ready to gives this hobby up.
 
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rcreations

Guest
I'm sorry for your loss.
Does your refugium have a deep sand bed? That and chaeto helps a lot with nitrates.
 

ccampbell57

Active Member
GTD - sounds like your tank needs to settle. Nitrates of 80-100 is very high IMHO. Especially for angels that are new to the tank. I know for a fact that when my nitrates get high (10) my emperor starts to get very aggitated and barks at all the fish.
I have to do a couple rounds of wet skimming and everything is back to normal. My other thought about your tank is that your county tap water is no good. You need to purchase an RO/DI unit. It will be a lot cheaper in the long run doing that then to watch $1000's of dollars wasted in dead fish.
I also think you have some other issues with your tank. A queen angel should never acclimate and then do a death spiral. I have never once seen this without the water being contaminated with something.
Have you checked for copper??? Sounds like your fish are being poisoned by something.
You should also go buy a separate mechanical filtration unit to help with your nitrates.
Like I have told you previously, you need to stop adding fish and get your system settled for a while before you add anymore fish.
At this point dont give up, just sit tight for a couple of months and get things right and then start adding your wish list.
 
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rcreations

Guest
Definitely get a RO/DI unit. There are some crazy things in tap water, depending on where you live that can kill your fish. It's a small price to pay for a RO unit if you consider the long term benefits.
 
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gtdarock

Guest
Hey, RCreations. My refuigium sand bed is about an 1 1/2. Is that consider deep-? I also have my skimmer in the second chamber, so I think that my restrict the flow and cause the cheato to die-? Hey Camp ! I will look into an RO/DI unit. No more fishes for me, until I get the Nitrates down. What else do you think can cause them to go high-? Its like I am doing the water changes, but it doesn't help. I will check for copper right now. You say, separate mechanical filtration unit, what do you recommend-? Thanks !
 
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rcreations

Guest
Deep Sand Bed should be 4+ inches in order to fight nitrates.
 
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gtdarock

Guest
Really, so should I be ok if I take out some sand from the display, and add to the refuguim to make up the four inches-?
 
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rcreations

Guest
Yea, if you have enough sand to spare in the DT, you can take it from there.
 

hefner413

Active Member
Be reaaal careful about taking sand out - you can stir up junk and release a bunk of toxins into the tank. If I were you, I would probably opt to just get some more sand and add it to the sump. You can get sand online for really cheap. I got 165 lbs of caribsea reef sand for 135 total including s/h. So compared to your LFS, you can get it relatively cheap.
Again, so sorry to hear about you loss. Try not to get discouraged!
 
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gtdarock

Guest
Thanks Hef, I'm trying to stay cool. I might go out to the LFS and get two bags. I am desperate to get this tank right. Should I try my best and move the skimmer, and try and place to outside-?
 

hefner413

Active Member
I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean take out the skimmer to make more room for the sand? IF so, I don't think it'll make a huge difference - it's up to you. Just make sure your skimmer is running as much as possible right now.
And about the Deep sand bed - remember one thing - the DSB is good at denitrifying because of the anaerobic bacteria that grows down deep. So it'll take a little time to have it's affect - because that anaerobic bacteria will have to grow/multiply. Once you have your DSB - the anaerobic bacteria grows - usually in sand below 2in deep - where there is no oxygen. Here the anaerobic bacteria converts the NO3 to N2 gas - that's why you see bubbles coming out of a DSB when it's disturbed.
The DSB will definitely help - but anywhere anaerobic bacteria is will help. Deep down in live rock and other places that have little water flow (and thus little oxygen) will have rich anaerobic bacteria.
One more thing - just be careful when increasing your sand bed. In order to add sand to the rest, it will kill the aerobic bacteria on the top of the sand because it won't have oxygen, and thus might cause a spike in itself. So you may need to watch all your levels and do water changes accordingly.
 
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gtdarock

Guest
Hey Hef ! I included some pics of my sump. As you can see the skimmer is taking up all the room in the 2nd chamber. So I was thinking of moving it, and placing it outside of the sump, but I have to make sure that the output is not facing up, or the water will come up through the valve.I am about to get the sand. I'll make the sump sandbed at 4 in. But I was just taking a closer look at my tank, and I think I found the reason why I have high nitrates. My display tank sandbed is only 1 1/2 high. I remember buying about 10 bags of sand to cover the tank. Some places are slightly higher. Could that be the reason-?



 

hefner413

Active Member
That might be part of it. Aerobic bacteria is nitrifying bacteria - like those found in shallow sand and other oxygenated areas. Thus you would have plenty in your shallow sand bed. Thus increasing the depth would increase the denitrifying bacteria - the anaerobic bacteria. But a DSB in the display isn't the only way. As you know, many people go bare bottom on their DT's. They don't have any anaerobic bacteria on the bottom of the tanks at all. They make up for it with their refugiums most of the time. They use refugium mud, etc which allows a ton of anaerobic bacteria to grow.
So as long as you figure out ways to increase anaerobic bacteria, you'll help things out.
But that's kinda the end of the process. In order to help things even more, you can help prevent the waste byproducts before they start - thus preventing the NH3, N02, and N03 from even being made in the first place. That is by simply increasing waste removal before it can be broken down. Some ways to do this: I see you have a prefilter on your sump. You have to clean that thing very, very regularly to get all the waste out of it. Another way is your skimmer - I see you have one, but skimmers can be quite insufficient for the tanksize they are recommended for. That's why many people use oversized/over-rated skimmers. The more skimmate that you can take off, the more waste you get before it's processed by the bacteria in the tank.
And of course some other things are very simple- decreasing feeding frequency/amounts. Decreasing the parts of the food that aren't eaten - that's why some people strain their food before adding it. etc, etc.
Well, that's just a couple things to give you an idea... Obviously there's not just one answer to fix the problem, but many things together can make a huge difference.
 
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