Whitemouth Moray and blackedge?
- Thread starter blizz75
- Start date
aw2x3
Active Member
I'm not so sure you'd need a bigger tank for either.
I've had my Whitemouth for over 2 years. I read all different accounts of how they'll reach lengths anywhere from 3' - 6', so it's hard to tell just how big they'll actually get. I got mine when he was aprox. 24" and he's now over 32" long...almost 6" a year, in growth, and he doesnt seem to be slowing down. He's also getting thicker, as well.
They're both Gymnothorax species, which are much more aggressive than a Snowflake Eel, or anything closely related. I've had times when I havent fed my Whitemouth in a while and when he sees that feeding stick, he's ALL OVER the tank, trying to attack anything that's in his way...biting other fish, the rocks, the feeding stick, powerheads...doesnt matter...he's pissed off, hungry and wants food.
From everything that I've heard and read, Black Edge Morays are just plain psychotic...often trying to attack you, while cleaning the tank, feeding, etc. A friend of mine owns one and she's been in the hobby for a very long time...she says it's the only fish she's ever been afraid of.
I think a either one would be just fine in a 90gal. tank (which mine is in now, until the 200gal. is set back up). Be very careful with tankmates, tho...especially with the Black Edge.
I've had my Whitemouth for over 2 years. I read all different accounts of how they'll reach lengths anywhere from 3' - 6', so it's hard to tell just how big they'll actually get. I got mine when he was aprox. 24" and he's now over 32" long...almost 6" a year, in growth, and he doesnt seem to be slowing down. He's also getting thicker, as well.
They're both Gymnothorax species, which are much more aggressive than a Snowflake Eel, or anything closely related. I've had times when I havent fed my Whitemouth in a while and when he sees that feeding stick, he's ALL OVER the tank, trying to attack anything that's in his way...biting other fish, the rocks, the feeding stick, powerheads...doesnt matter...he's pissed off, hungry and wants food.
From everything that I've heard and read, Black Edge Morays are just plain psychotic...often trying to attack you, while cleaning the tank, feeding, etc. A friend of mine owns one and she's been in the hobby for a very long time...she says it's the only fish she's ever been afraid of.
I think a either one would be just fine in a 90gal. tank (which mine is in now, until the 200gal. is set back up). Be very careful with tankmates, tho...especially with the Black Edge.
blizz75
Member
most of the sites that ive seen say 125 or so is why im asking,.. i know they are not right most of the time but they usually say a smaller tank is ok,
so if u see no reason why they need a bigger tank would a whitemouth fit in a 75g, i know u said 90g but its only 3" shorter or something with the same footprint and my system all together w/ sump will be over 100g.
As for the aggression, does yours attack your other fish? i plan on keepin maybe a hamlet and antennata lion. Would he eat the hamlet or should he be ok as long as he is well fed?
thanks for the response
so if u see no reason why they need a bigger tank would a whitemouth fit in a 75g, i know u said 90g but its only 3" shorter or something with the same footprint and my system all together w/ sump will be over 100g.
As for the aggression, does yours attack your other fish? i plan on keepin maybe a hamlet and antennata lion. Would he eat the hamlet or should he be ok as long as he is well fed?
thanks for the response
aw2x3
Active Member
I keep mine with my female Hawaiian Dragon and a 7" - 8" Blue Lined Grouper.
As long as I keep the Whitemouth well fed, he's fine. There are times when I've fed and he's come out, chasing the Grouper around...but it's only happened once or twice. He never bites or attacks...just chases it around. It might have something to do with the Grouper always taking food away from the Whitemouth tho...lol!
The one fish, that comes to mind, that my Whitemouth attacked was a 5" Queen Trigger that I had. I was feeding and all the fish were going crazy. The Whitemouth shot out of the rocks, grabbed the Queen and tried dragging her back into the rocks. When he realized what was happening, he immediately let go of the Queen and went back to eating from the feeding stick.
Tank size....if I'm not mistaken, a 75gal. tank is 18" front to back and a 90gal. is 24" front to back. I may be wrong, tho. That extra room is gonna make a huge difference.
Personality wise, mine is awesome. He's the only one that'll use the PVC caves I have for the Morays. He's also the one that I'm the most cautious around, when my hands are in the tank. My Dragon is almost twice the Whitemouths size and I hand feed her all the time. I wont put my hands anywhere near the Whitemouth because he has tried to bite a few times. They're not the most expensive or nicest fish, but he's the very first fish I ever got and I couldnt ever see getting rid of him.
As long as your fish are too big to be eaten, I'd think they'd be alright. However, I'd have reservations about putting a Dwarf Lion into the tank...it'll only take one time for the Whitemouth to grab ahold of the Lion and then it's bye-bye Whitemouth.
As long as I keep the Whitemouth well fed, he's fine. There are times when I've fed and he's come out, chasing the Grouper around...but it's only happened once or twice. He never bites or attacks...just chases it around. It might have something to do with the Grouper always taking food away from the Whitemouth tho...lol!
The one fish, that comes to mind, that my Whitemouth attacked was a 5" Queen Trigger that I had. I was feeding and all the fish were going crazy. The Whitemouth shot out of the rocks, grabbed the Queen and tried dragging her back into the rocks. When he realized what was happening, he immediately let go of the Queen and went back to eating from the feeding stick.
Tank size....if I'm not mistaken, a 75gal. tank is 18" front to back and a 90gal. is 24" front to back. I may be wrong, tho. That extra room is gonna make a huge difference.
Personality wise, mine is awesome. He's the only one that'll use the PVC caves I have for the Morays. He's also the one that I'm the most cautious around, when my hands are in the tank. My Dragon is almost twice the Whitemouths size and I hand feed her all the time. I wont put my hands anywhere near the Whitemouth because he has tried to bite a few times. They're not the most expensive or nicest fish, but he's the very first fish I ever got and I couldnt ever see getting rid of him.
As long as your fish are too big to be eaten, I'd think they'd be alright. However, I'd have reservations about putting a Dwarf Lion into the tank...it'll only take one time for the Whitemouth to grab ahold of the Lion and then it's bye-bye Whitemouth.
blizz75
Member
well the lion gets 2" more inches than the hamlet so if ur worried about the 7-8" lion then the hamlets prob. a no. as for the 90, its 24 high not deep. does that change what size tank u think they need? i dont want to cramp anyone. and the aggression is a good thing my old snowflake got scared when my hermit walked towards him. i like something that gets a little angry, haha
oh and what would u expect to pay at a LFS? ive seen them for 200 on the web but my LFS prob. makes 150% of what they pay,
oh and what would u expect to pay at a LFS? ive seen them for 200 on the web but my LFS prob. makes 150% of what they pay,
aw2x3
Active Member
Wierd...I really thought my 90gal. was 24" front to back.
In that case, I'd definately have to change my previous advice and say a 125 would be minimum.
I'm not sure what you should be looking to spend. I got mine for free, from a friend who owned a fish store. He said some guy brought it in, saying it was highly aggressive and they didnt want to keep it at the fish store.
I know where you're talking about, when you've seen them for $200 and I'd never pay that much for one. I've seen them for as little as $50, when I was living in Chicago.
In that case, I'd definately have to change my previous advice and say a 125 would be minimum.
I'm not sure what you should be looking to spend. I got mine for free, from a friend who owned a fish store. He said some guy brought it in, saying it was highly aggressive and they didnt want to keep it at the fish store.
I know where you're talking about, when you've seen them for $200 and I'd never pay that much for one. I've seen them for as little as $50, when I was living in Chicago.
aw2x3
Active Member
This is by no means a proven fact...only by what I've experianced.
99% of the Snowflakes that I have ever seen are pretty lazy, finding one or two places to hang out and that's it.
My Whitemouth is VERY active, often swimming around through the rocks. From what I understand, they're more of a traveling species, often searching out food and finding shelter where they can, instead of sticking to one area.
Same for my Hawaiian Dragon. Even tho she's bigger than my Whitemouth, I'd have no problems keeping her in a 90gal. tank. She has one or two places where she stays...never out swimming around, searching the rocks.
The only reason they're all going back into my 200gal. is because I prefer bigger tanks and will probably end up with a few more Hawaiian Dragons.
99% of the Snowflakes that I have ever seen are pretty lazy, finding one or two places to hang out and that's it.
My Whitemouth is VERY active, often swimming around through the rocks. From what I understand, they're more of a traveling species, often searching out food and finding shelter where they can, instead of sticking to one area.
Same for my Hawaiian Dragon. Even tho she's bigger than my Whitemouth, I'd have no problems keeping her in a 90gal. tank. She has one or two places where she stays...never out swimming around, searching the rocks.
The only reason they're all going back into my 200gal. is because I prefer bigger tanks and will probably end up with a few more Hawaiian Dragons.
blizz75
Member
Well i guess that is somewhat true, If i was to do a dragon in my 75g it would take up my whole bio-load tho would it not? I guess the only option for my tank would be a snowflake. I was planning on getting a 150g but found a new 75g for $56 and bought it so now its kinda my only option. thanks for your help
sulley
Member
Andy the whitemouth grows no more than 3.5' to 4 feet. also 24 to 32 is only four inches a year. they hit a plateau than grow extremely slow after that. also i have read countless of accounts where eels have eaten a lionfish and nothing had happeneed to the eel. many times they said they lost their lion but nothing had ever happened to their eel. they just needed some pepcid ac...lol
aw2x3
Active Member
Originally Posted by sulley
Andy the whitemouth grows no more than 3.5' to 4 feet. also 24 to 32 is only four inches a year. they hit a plateau than grow extremely slow after that.
Where was definitive information found, that would give you such a factual responce? I've seen tiny little guys and I've had friends who were divers, in Hawaii, who have seen them at over 5'...I have also seen them, in the wild while diving, that were more than 4' in length and as thick as a softball. We cant go by the "The fish will only grow to the size of the tank" rule, because we all know that's not true. What's gonna keep them from growing that large in the home aquaria?
When I got my Whitemouth, he was 24", as I said, and maybe as thick as a golf ball. In those 2 years, he's gotten so thick as to be able to barely squeeze into a piece of 2.5" PVC. Now, whether he's at his growth spurt now or not, that much growth is quite alot. He may continue to grow and he may not, but who's to say he wont grow larger than 3.5' - 4'. I've never known anyone to keep them in a home aquarium, for longer than a year, so I've never heard otherwise.
I've also seen quite a few Snowflake Morays that were longer than 4'.
Not arguing...just debating/trying to find more answers.
Originally Posted by sulley
also i have read countless of accounts where eels have eaten a lionfish and nothing had happeneed to the eel. many times they said they lost their lion but nothing had ever happened to their eel. they just needed some pepcid ac...lol
I have heard this too, but only on one account. A friend, from another forum, was keeping a 6" Volitan with a Fimbriated Moray. One day, the Volitan dissapeared and the Moray was alot fatter. Nothing ever happened to the Moray (besides the guy getting rid of it). But, I've also read many times about other fish (not just Morays), eating various species of Lion and not lasting more than a day or so. Whether they'll live or die, I'd still prefer my Morays not to eat venomous fish, just on basis of it being venomous...and, I'd rather not waste the money on a fish, only for it to be eaten.
Andy the whitemouth grows no more than 3.5' to 4 feet. also 24 to 32 is only four inches a year. they hit a plateau than grow extremely slow after that.
Where was definitive information found, that would give you such a factual responce? I've seen tiny little guys and I've had friends who were divers, in Hawaii, who have seen them at over 5'...I have also seen them, in the wild while diving, that were more than 4' in length and as thick as a softball. We cant go by the "The fish will only grow to the size of the tank" rule, because we all know that's not true. What's gonna keep them from growing that large in the home aquaria?
When I got my Whitemouth, he was 24", as I said, and maybe as thick as a golf ball. In those 2 years, he's gotten so thick as to be able to barely squeeze into a piece of 2.5" PVC. Now, whether he's at his growth spurt now or not, that much growth is quite alot. He may continue to grow and he may not, but who's to say he wont grow larger than 3.5' - 4'. I've never known anyone to keep them in a home aquarium, for longer than a year, so I've never heard otherwise.
I've also seen quite a few Snowflake Morays that were longer than 4'.
Not arguing...just debating/trying to find more answers.
Originally Posted by sulley
also i have read countless of accounts where eels have eaten a lionfish and nothing had happeneed to the eel. many times they said they lost their lion but nothing had ever happened to their eel. they just needed some pepcid ac...lol
I have heard this too, but only on one account. A friend, from another forum, was keeping a 6" Volitan with a Fimbriated Moray. One day, the Volitan dissapeared and the Moray was alot fatter. Nothing ever happened to the Moray (besides the guy getting rid of it). But, I've also read many times about other fish (not just Morays), eating various species of Lion and not lasting more than a day or so. Whether they'll live or die, I'd still prefer my Morays not to eat venomous fish, just on basis of it being venomous...and, I'd rather not waste the money on a fish, only for it to be eaten.
sulley
Member
well andy my response that is factual is from friends of mine that have kept this species in aquaria for many years. i do not get all of my info on google i prefer to get my info from people that have had experience with the species as well as have cared for them myself. as far as your diver friends swearing they were over 5 feet i know some people that swear to have seen a monster in loch ness as well. the lionfish response was in accordance to your comment on bye bye whitehead. i think everyone agrees they do not want to purchase lionfish for feeders, but theyt wont die. the same as i think we all agree that we all do not want to purchase expensive "birthday" presents that just die soon after.
aw2x3
Active Member
Easy there, killer...slow down a little.
As I have already said..."Not arguing...just debating/trying to find more answers." I'm also speaking from experiance, so dont patronize me and claim I get all of my info from google.
Your friends can say they get to be no more than 3.5' - 4', but my friends cant say they get bigger than that?
I thought we were being civil here, but if you cant be the same, then I'll have no more to do with this thread. I hope you got all of the info you wanted from this thread, blizz75.
:notsure:
As I have already said..."Not arguing...just debating/trying to find more answers." I'm also speaking from experiance, so dont patronize me and claim I get all of my info from google.
Your friends can say they get to be no more than 3.5' - 4', but my friends cant say they get bigger than that?
I thought we were being civil here, but if you cant be the same, then I'll have no more to do with this thread. I hope you got all of the info you wanted from this thread, blizz75.
:notsure:
dm2x3
New Member
Hi AW, This is one person that your words have no confusing what if your in the knowing of what your talking about or not, for sully is correct that eels will not die as you say or said and then you attempt to change your story in what it was that you said in the first place.
I was the one who told sly at grims that his lionfish will be eaten and as little as you know in all this, his stonefish was running for its life as well for it too has no defense once killed. In -- there was a talk about the mantis and bluering, we could had used your input/knowledge in what the discussion was all about.
There is only one marine species with no known enemy in the ocean in which is the killer whale and no matter what defense any other marine animal has, there is always those that could take them out. For such as the bluering, it can do nothing if it cannot get in close to bite its attacker.
I readied your post and it has much double talk in it, you try honestly to say things as if you were a marine professional. But in your short years, you honestly have no true success to speak of other then your a whitemouth for two years and the dme for a year.
As sully said, or I should say this better I think, if you were as this professional hobbyist as you let out here to be at the other swf members, one thing you would never done and that was run out on your B-day to buy two new fish and crowd the eels in the 90, This was very unprofessional.
As well, your post on curing LR or so, in all else you let out others to believe in your knowledge, if you had the knowledge you been allowing others to believe, you would known what to do on the LR question.
You want a debate as you told sully? I can give you this debate, we can question the other in showing what we both truly know. You know, like a debate running for the Presidency of the US. And it would be nice terms, no rudeness as you always shown.
Our debate will be on moray eel species, if you refuse, you would had then exposed yourself as the phony you are.
I seen the thread at grims on eel id pics inside by mantisshrimp and those first two pics are clear and I told someone else there what that eel species is.
I do hope in later years AW that you become the true person you are and stop pretending to be something your not. As well have the same fish for years and not just up to a year or so. For just having a fish not means that you still have it today for all those fish the people see with the eels there are no more, you lost them
As sully had said, too many other hobbyists had lost a lionfish too their eel and not once did any eel shown any ill effect. And one other thing AW, I never told anyone to go search in google or too look back for there answer in some other thread, for if I cannot find that thread for that person, it would then only been right to had answered the question of the topic and not leave the person wondering where he/she will get their info from or suggestions.
I see from the time I been trying to tell you of the many species of morays and of their ability to take some fish when hungry enough has been proven by you to been a waste of time. And please don`t offer here any double talk, I'm no beginner.
I know what you had experienced within your tank(s) for it isn`t true when you said that. You cannot answer on the many eel and fish questions that you never had and least enough kept alive for many year in which you not done up to now other then two eel for 2 & 1 year. There are so many other hobyists who had their eels for a lot longer as well as their fish.
It is unprofessional as well to call the blackedge moray psychotic, for each marine species is giving something different then the other and some as nearly equal to the other for aggressions as at different levels with many morays.
And perhaps you can tell me why you just not said that long term with a whitemouth and blackedge morays will never last long term that the blackedge in time will kill the whitemouth?? And remember who this is who is telling you this. The only way the whitemouth can kill the blackedge is if you buy it so much smaller.
Also you told blizz75 that to be "very careful with tankmates, tho...especially with the Black Edge." That is not a correct answer to offer one who wishes a blackedge moray.
Im sure AW that you had seen my thread on housing a blackedge with a Fimbriated Moray and this if bliss75 like to listen in how this will work, I would be more then happy to do this. Only one thing bliss75, you must follow what I say on this to the letter if your to be successful. And if you can do this within a 240?
If I not said this, your picture which you posted is about a year old. Do you accept too a debate?
Dragon Moray Eels ><{{{{">
I was the one who told sly at grims that his lionfish will be eaten and as little as you know in all this, his stonefish was running for its life as well for it too has no defense once killed. In -- there was a talk about the mantis and bluering, we could had used your input/knowledge in what the discussion was all about.
There is only one marine species with no known enemy in the ocean in which is the killer whale and no matter what defense any other marine animal has, there is always those that could take them out. For such as the bluering, it can do nothing if it cannot get in close to bite its attacker.
I readied your post and it has much double talk in it, you try honestly to say things as if you were a marine professional. But in your short years, you honestly have no true success to speak of other then your a whitemouth for two years and the dme for a year.
As sully said, or I should say this better I think, if you were as this professional hobbyist as you let out here to be at the other swf members, one thing you would never done and that was run out on your B-day to buy two new fish and crowd the eels in the 90, This was very unprofessional.
As well, your post on curing LR or so, in all else you let out others to believe in your knowledge, if you had the knowledge you been allowing others to believe, you would known what to do on the LR question.
You want a debate as you told sully? I can give you this debate, we can question the other in showing what we both truly know. You know, like a debate running for the Presidency of the US. And it would be nice terms, no rudeness as you always shown.
Our debate will be on moray eel species, if you refuse, you would had then exposed yourself as the phony you are.
I seen the thread at grims on eel id pics inside by mantisshrimp and those first two pics are clear and I told someone else there what that eel species is.
I do hope in later years AW that you become the true person you are and stop pretending to be something your not. As well have the same fish for years and not just up to a year or so. For just having a fish not means that you still have it today for all those fish the people see with the eels there are no more, you lost them
As sully had said, too many other hobbyists had lost a lionfish too their eel and not once did any eel shown any ill effect. And one other thing AW, I never told anyone to go search in google or too look back for there answer in some other thread, for if I cannot find that thread for that person, it would then only been right to had answered the question of the topic and not leave the person wondering where he/she will get their info from or suggestions.
I see from the time I been trying to tell you of the many species of morays and of their ability to take some fish when hungry enough has been proven by you to been a waste of time. And please don`t offer here any double talk, I'm no beginner.
I know what you had experienced within your tank(s) for it isn`t true when you said that. You cannot answer on the many eel and fish questions that you never had and least enough kept alive for many year in which you not done up to now other then two eel for 2 & 1 year. There are so many other hobyists who had their eels for a lot longer as well as their fish.
It is unprofessional as well to call the blackedge moray psychotic, for each marine species is giving something different then the other and some as nearly equal to the other for aggressions as at different levels with many morays.
And perhaps you can tell me why you just not said that long term with a whitemouth and blackedge morays will never last long term that the blackedge in time will kill the whitemouth?? And remember who this is who is telling you this. The only way the whitemouth can kill the blackedge is if you buy it so much smaller.
Also you told blizz75 that to be "very careful with tankmates, tho...especially with the Black Edge." That is not a correct answer to offer one who wishes a blackedge moray.
Im sure AW that you had seen my thread on housing a blackedge with a Fimbriated Moray and this if bliss75 like to listen in how this will work, I would be more then happy to do this. Only one thing bliss75, you must follow what I say on this to the letter if your to be successful. And if you can do this within a 240?
If I not said this, your picture which you posted is about a year old. Do you accept too a debate?
Dragon Moray Eels ><{{{{">
sulley
Member
oh by no means arguing at all. i think you have to type bold letters for that on the computer...lol. the only thing you had stated about their size was that you have read that they can go from 3-6 feet. i know some people that have had them for awhile so that is where i was coming. the lion comment was just to reply that the eel would die in which case it would not. true the guy would lose the lionfish, but the eel would not perish.
p.s. if i am srguing or mad you can tell by my lower lip trembles just look at that next time. lol
p.s. if i am srguing or mad you can tell by my lower lip trembles just look at that next time. lol