Who WOULD YOU TAKE?
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darth tang
Active Member
Originally Posted by thirty6
thats when vick is allowed and not critizied for tucking the ball and running. the vikes did pretty good the one year randall cunningham was the starting qb, think atlanta went to dance though. i dont think culpepper will be running wild with his recovering knee either.
The year Cunningham went 15-1 with the vikings he had under 200 yards rushing for the season.
thats when vick is allowed and not critizied for tucking the ball and running. the vikes did pretty good the one year randall cunningham was the starting qb, think atlanta went to dance though. i dont think culpepper will be running wild with his recovering knee either.
The year Cunningham went 15-1 with the vikings he had under 200 yards rushing for the season.
lion_crazz
Active Member
Wouldn't you consider McNair a running QB? He went to the Super Bowl in 2000.
darth tang
Active Member
The 2000 super bowl is actually for the stats in the 1999 season...which Mcnair was UNDER 400 YARDS RUSHING.
sufunk
Member
All "running" qb's are going to evolve into more of a "throwing" Qb over time if nothing else because of age and injury. Its still nice to be able to run when you have to. As a cowboy fan , im sure theres times when you wish Bledsoe had the footspeed of any "normal"human being to avoid a sack here and there. Id be pretty surprised if Young doesnt end up a good NFL qb. As a Syracuse fan, Id say hes a better runner and pretty close in throwing as Mcnabb was when he came out.
darth tang
Active Member
Actually, as a Cowboy fan, I never wished Bledsoe could run the ball better. I wished the O-line could block better. Here is why. I f as a team you are relying on the feet of your quarterback you are in a bad situation. It means your line isn't doing it's job, which also means (odds are) the line isn't giving enough of a push and openning decent holes for the running back either. So does a running quarterback solve this problem? Not really as the line is inept and you still have a poor passing game as your quarterback will tuck and run and your running back will still not have anywhere to run the ball.
Give me a pocket passer and a good line and I will show you a super bowl team.
Give me a pocket passer and a good line and I will show you a super bowl team.
sufunk
Member
Yeah, im sure Denver fans hated it when Elway would avoid a sack and make a great play with his feet
same with staubach, tarkenton, young, etc.
If you look past fantasy football numbers and what actually happens in games, you know that what made those qb's as great as they were was the ability to scramble until they found a receiver and make an incredible play out of a sack. You dont want to tuck and run immediately like vick usually does missing receivers that break open. If Bledsoe could use his feet to buy time a few times a game wed be much better off.
No matter how great your line is there will always be pressure on the qb at times throughout the game. If you can avoid that pressure more than most qbs, you have an advantage!
You dont have to rely on the qb's feet but its nice for him to have them when the situation calls for it rather than a leadfooted qb.
If you look past fantasy football numbers and what actually happens in games, you know that what made those qb's as great as they were was the ability to scramble until they found a receiver and make an incredible play out of a sack. You dont want to tuck and run immediately like vick usually does missing receivers that break open. If Bledsoe could use his feet to buy time a few times a game wed be much better off.
No matter how great your line is there will always be pressure on the qb at times throughout the game. If you can avoid that pressure more than most qbs, you have an advantage!
You dont have to rely on the qb's feet but its nice for him to have them when the situation calls for it rather than a leadfooted qb.
darth tang
Active Member
That is a scrambling quarterback...which I have no problem with....as the run around BEHIND the line of scrimmage with the intention of throwing a pass still.
It is the running quarterbacks...those that rush over 400 yards in a season...that I do not like and have stated have never been to a super bowl.
Also remember Elway didn't WIN a super bowl until he had a good offensive line that had a great Running back behind it.
It is the running quarterbacks...those that rush over 400 yards in a season...that I do not like and have stated have never been to a super bowl.
Also remember Elway didn't WIN a super bowl until he had a good offensive line that had a great Running back behind it.
sufunk
Member
You just said that you were perfectly happy with a leadfoot and are glad he cant run after i said id bet you wish Bledsoe could run a little to avoid a sack here and there??? Young wont be a "running" qb. He'll be a scrambler. He is much more of a passer than Vick was coming out and i think people see the beating vick has taken and know that you cant do that with a franchise qb you have that much invested in.
Also, are you saying Elways running kept them from winning??? it wasnt exactly Elways fault they didnt win his first 3 tries. Their defense was the problem, not how much he ran.
p.s-Darth, we better stop before "someone" asks that we get banned for this
Also, are you saying Elways running kept them from winning??? it wasnt exactly Elways fault they didnt win his first 3 tries. Their defense was the problem, not how much he ran.
p.s-Darth, we better stop before "someone" asks that we get banned for this
darth tang
Active Member
Young will be a scrambler? Did you even watch the rose bowl? He had 200 yards rushing to 267 yards passing. He had 30 completions to 19 carries.
He had more rushing carries than their runningback. He had 212 completions compared to 155 rushes. That means when he drops back 40%oif the time he runs. That doesn't appear to be a "scrambling" QB.
As far as Bledsoe........I wish for a line before I wish for him to have elway legs. Dallas' problem was their line.....not their QB......Julius Jones had a horrible year compared to what he did the year before......the line injuries hurt the cowboys. Not bledsoe's Lead feet. through the first 6 games he was the TOP rated QB in the league, he did that WITHOUT scrambling or running. So no, I don't wish bledsoe could run the ball...I wish our line could block better.
He had more rushing carries than their runningback. He had 212 completions compared to 155 rushes. That means when he drops back 40%oif the time he runs. That doesn't appear to be a "scrambling" QB.
As far as Bledsoe........I wish for a line before I wish for him to have elway legs. Dallas' problem was their line.....not their QB......Julius Jones had a horrible year compared to what he did the year before......the line injuries hurt the cowboys. Not bledsoe's Lead feet. through the first 6 games he was the TOP rated QB in the league, he did that WITHOUT scrambling or running. So no, I don't wish bledsoe could run the ball...I wish our line could block better.
sufunk
Member
Alright this is my last response since you dont even understand the stats your posting as usual. Why tell me his completions??? How bout how many attempts he had?? wouldnt that be a better indicator of how often he runs vs how often he passes????? He had 325 ATTEMPTS to 147 rushes. That means he throws 68.8% of the time. Either way thats college and Texas is a RUN based offense. Hes averaging 25 attempts a game, thats WAY more than Vick(whos a RUNNER) averaged in college.
P.s.- what happened to your great stat about qbs averaging 75 a game in the pros, whyd you revise it to 400 a season, thats a pretty big difference
P.s.- what happened to your great stat about qbs averaging 75 a game in the pros, whyd you revise it to 400 a season, thats a pretty big difference
darth tang
Active Member
My 75 yards a game rushing was basically based off of how Young plays. What did he average rushing a game? I stated NO QB that has averaged 75 yards a game rushing has ever been to the super bowl. That is all I said. Nothing more. Nothing less. Was my statement a lie? Was my statement wrong? No, on both counts. Now, why did I say such a thing? Because Vince young averaged over 75 yards per game rushing.
I stated he ran 40% of the time roughly....darn, I was off a couple percentages. (should have actually broke out the calculator, didn't realize I was discussing this with the Calculas Professor at Yale) You are arguing he is a scrambling QB. He is not based off my reasoning and the stats I put forth and you yourself inturn put forth.. That is all.
I used my 400 yards per season avergae as people started listing other quarterbacks and I was giving a statistic of what I consider the difference between a scrambling/passing QB and a running QB.
I stated he ran 40% of the time roughly....darn, I was off a couple percentages. (should have actually broke out the calculator, didn't realize I was discussing this with the Calculas Professor at Yale) You are arguing he is a scrambling QB. He is not based off my reasoning and the stats I put forth and you yourself inturn put forth.. That is all.
I used my 400 yards per season avergae as people started listing other quarterbacks and I was giving a statistic of what I consider the difference between a scrambling/passing QB and a running QB.
sufunk
Member
Ok , 1 last just to show how flawed your logic is. Yes, everything you said about Bledsoe and the cowboys line is correct. Hes awesome with great protection. But injuries happen, when Flozell got hurt our promising season basically ended because Bledsoe has lead feet. we couldnt provide him with great protection anymore and he certainly cant create his own. If we had a scrambling qb, we still would of had a chance after flozell went down. Its a HUGE advantage to be MOBILE!!!
p.s.- Its not that your were off by 9 %. Two times in the post you state Youngs COMPLETIONS versus rushing attempts to show the %. His COMPLETIONS meant nothing his ATTEMPTS were what mattered.
p.s.- Its not that your were off by 9 %. Two times in the post you state Youngs COMPLETIONS versus rushing attempts to show the %. His COMPLETIONS meant nothing his ATTEMPTS were what mattered.
darth tang
Active Member
Attempts don't matter unless something comes out of them. His rushes are for positive yards. Why compare his positive rushing statistics to pass attempts that some net no yards. How many of those failed passing attempts were because he was running around like a headless chicken while scrambling? Quite a few.
Brett Favre is considered a scrambling QB....How were his stats this year? Culpepper is a scrambling/running QB, how were his stats before injury? What was the record of both teams under their leadership and scrambling ability? What about the Eagles? How did their season go with a scrambling QB/ Runner at the helm?
culpepper 12 interception to 6 TD's in 6.5 games.
Favre 20 TD's to 29 interceptions in one season.
McNabb was 4-5 in the win loss column. His stats were decent, then he lost TO....and the all plummetted. He had 5 touchdowns and 5 inteceptions in the 5 games he played without TO. but a scrambling/Running QB at the helm is expected to be able to to do better than a lead foot, when there are injuries or problems on the team. But apparently......it didn't help these future hall of famers did it?
Bledsoe ended with 23 touchdowns and 17 interceptions. He had less interceptions than the great Favre and only 5 more than Culpepper in twice the games. Nope, I think I will take the flatfoot.....
I will concede i Mcnabb was injured while playing in his crotch..
Brett Favre is considered a scrambling QB....How were his stats this year? Culpepper is a scrambling/running QB, how were his stats before injury? What was the record of both teams under their leadership and scrambling ability? What about the Eagles? How did their season go with a scrambling QB/ Runner at the helm?
culpepper 12 interception to 6 TD's in 6.5 games.
Favre 20 TD's to 29 interceptions in one season.
McNabb was 4-5 in the win loss column. His stats were decent, then he lost TO....and the all plummetted. He had 5 touchdowns and 5 inteceptions in the 5 games he played without TO. but a scrambling/Running QB at the helm is expected to be able to to do better than a lead foot, when there are injuries or problems on the team. But apparently......it didn't help these future hall of famers did it?
Bledsoe ended with 23 touchdowns and 17 interceptions. He had less interceptions than the great Favre and only 5 more than Culpepper in twice the games. Nope, I think I will take the flatfoot.....
I will concede i Mcnabb was injured while playing in his crotch..
sufunk
Member
You didnt really say Favre did you????????? Thats the funniest thing ive ever heard. How bout an example of someone younger than my dad!!! I guess Favre's been a bust, your right :hilarious
Also, you wanna say what running qb's have never done and that Bush is such a great pick at #1. Name me a team that went to the SB with a running back who went #1. Look at what teams have gotten out of taking rb's #1. WAY too high to take a RB as history has shown.
sufunk
Member
Darth Tang said:My 75 yards a game rushing was basically based off of how Young plays. What did he average rushing a game? I stated NO QB that has averaged 75 yards a game rushing has ever been to the super bowl. That is all I said. Nothing more. Nothing less. Was my statement a lie? Was my statement wrong? No, on both counts. Now, why did I say such a thing? Because Vince young averaged over 75 yards per game rushing.
Great logic, OK, then this is true also. No team has ever gone to the SB with their starting RB averaging over 7 yards a carry. Bush averaged more than that so you wouldnt want him. Also, no team has ever made the SB with a starting running back averaging over 125 yards a game. Bush did that also, so again dont take him if you want to go to the SB.
darth tang
Active Member
Pay attention I gave you Culpepper and Mcnabb...both younger than Bledsoe. just to cover the age defense. Bledsoe is a future hall of famer as well...if you believe otherwise you are definitely ignorant on his career statistics and accomplishments.
Yes, no running back taken first overall has ever played in a super bowl. To my knowledge anyway. However of ALL the quarterbacks ever taken overall, only 2 have been taken over all. Neither known for their feet and both have worn the cowboys jersey.
So using both of our arguments, Matt Lineart should be first overall.
Yes, no running back taken first overall has ever played in a super bowl. To my knowledge anyway. However of ALL the quarterbacks ever taken overall, only 2 have been taken over all. Neither known for their feet and both have worn the cowboys jersey.
So using both of our arguments, Matt Lineart should be first overall.
darth tang
Active Member
sufunk said:Originally Posted by Darth Tang
My 75 yards a game rushing was basically based off of how Young plays. What did he average rushing a game? I stated NO QB that has averaged 75 yards a game rushing has ever been to the super bowl. That is all I said. Nothing more. Nothing less. Was my statement a lie? Was my statement wrong? No, on both counts. Now, why did I say such a thing? Because Vince young averaged over 75 yards per game rushing.
Great logic, OK, then this is true also. No team has ever gone to the SB with their starting RB averaging over 7 yards a carry. Bush averaged more than that so you wouldnt want him. Also, no team has ever made the SB with a starting running back averaging over 125 yards a game. Bush did that also, so again dont take him if you want to go to the SB.
This might actually apply if you were using throwing statistics for a running back like I am using rushing statitics for a quarterback......please stop while you are way behind.
sufunk
Member
No, its the same ridiculous, nonsensical logic youre using.
I like how with everyone else your"stat boy". Correcting every mistake but when i point oit all your numerous mistakes all of a sudden youre not being specific :hilarious
As you would say to people in your other posts, get your stats right before you TYPE a response to me and STOP WHINING!
I like how with everyone else your"stat boy". Correcting every mistake but when i point oit all your numerous mistakes all of a sudden youre not being specific :hilarious
As you would say to people in your other posts, get your stats right before you TYPE a response to me and STOP WHINING!