Why do the lfs all recommend cycling with fish?????

[pohtr]

I have been to 4 fish stores so far and ALL of them have disliked the shrimp method of cycling. Why do most people on this forum use shrimp while most (if not all) lfs use fish? Most of them, by the way, were willing to take back the damsels after the cycle (if they were still alive, of course).
My tank is 2 wks old and hasn't done anything measureable yet. I used a shrimp and not the fish, but I am planning to add more shrimp, except I am now second guessing myself because of all the lfs advice.
What's up with this?
Any opinions?

 

[yosemite sam]

The only reason I could think of is because they want to sell you something. The shrimp method works just fine. They might take your fish back, but probably only for credit, so you'll end up buying something from them anyways. Do you have live rock in your tank?

 

[goldenboy]

Just use raw shrimp in your tank when it gets nice and stinky take it out. It will help with cycling. LFS want your money that is why they are in business. They would probably use shrimp too!

 

[squidd]

?
Why do the lfs all recommend cycling with fish?????
They sell more fish that way...:yes:

 

[snipe]

Its all part of getting money lets see for an example.
Lets say you are a LFS and have a $900 peice of $h--crap and a $90 top of line skimmer "not for real" what would you try and sell?

 

[knots]

Money, Money, Money!!

 

[poisony2k]

lfs get people all day that want to get fish in as soon as posible if you put a dead shrimp in it doesn't give much entertainment . personly im using 5 mollys for my 30gal tank with 30lbs of live rock and its all doing fine and now i kinda like my mollys. eveyone comes in and says how much longer until i can add fish to my tank, and thats why i recemend mollys and damsels

 

[maeistero]

it's stupid, but around my area in ks, they do it b/c most people (aka noobs that have to ask) are susceptible to suggestion and will buy anything to cycle quicker. noob usually will also not test or water xchange much either. test and water change regularly and you can do anything. :happy:
edit.... this is not the right smiley ever. can some mod fix it?
edit again... i don't mean to sound bad. after re-reading this post i'm rather noobish myself. my bad and good luck!

edit #3... pois do you work at *****? because that's exactly what those idiots (sorry) would recommend here in lawrence. it seems to work for some people, but honestly to recommend it? do you ask how long the tank is set and tell how long it takes to gradually increase the salinity for mollies. otherwise it seems that you just might be trying to increase revenue by selling 99cent fish.

 

[greatfullreefer]

Originally posted by poisony2k
lfs get people all day that want to get fish in as soon as posible
So tell them the truth and do NOT lie to them to make a buck.
Originally posted by poisony2k
if you put a dead shrimp in it doesn't give much entertainment .
But watching a fish breath fire and suffer and possibly die is???
Originally posted by poisony2k
personly im using 5 mollys for my 30gal tank with 30lbs of live rock and its all doing fine and now i kinda like my mollys. .
Forcing a FW fish to live in toxic saltwater....nice guy
Originally posted by poisony2k eveyone comes in and says how much longer until i can add fish to my tank, and thats why i recemend mollys and damsels [/B]
Again ...why not tell them the truth instead of intentionally misleading them????
I Do not mean to offend but LFS advice is 99% INCORRECT!!!

 

[mbrands]

Originally posted by pohtr
I have been to 4 fish stores so far and ALL of them have disliked the shrimp method of cycling. Why do most people on this forum use shrimp while most (if not all) lfs use fish?
Did you ask any of the 4 stores why they don't recommend the shrimp method? I'd be curious to hear their reasoning.

 

[poisony2k]

mollys are brackis anyway and we keep there salt content up fairly high anyway and i do tell them to aclimate them for about an hour. and the pet shop is anot a ***** but a local petshop. most people that use fish say that it will cycle faster most of our costomers dont lose any of tehre mollys in fact most have babbies and they bring us more they we sold them.

 

[ophiura]

$$$$$$$$$$$$
CHA-CHING!!!!
$$$$$$$$$$$$
You sell a $5.00 damsel...like 11 of them for a 55 (because you want max bioload, right)? Push that tank.
And then you "graciously" buy back the, say, 8 survivors at half price.
So initial money taken from customer: $55.00
minus
"graciously" given back money: $20
equals $35.00
minus initial damsel cost from wholesaler of like $8.00
equals $27.00.
So $15.00 (cleared on those that died) plus $27.00 (cleared on those "graciously" taken back) and the store makes $42.00 AND can resell the 8 damsels again for another $40.
So on your purchase of 11 damsels assuming 3 die, the store can make something like $80 against your 2 shrimp from the grocery store! It is probably laced with math errors (I ain't no business lady) but it is the basics.
I don't think it is right to sell fish into those conditions just because people want fish. If they want fish sooner, sell them LR to cycle it faster....lots of money in that too. But not fish. Whether they survive is irrelevant. Most fish cycled tanks I have seen take 4-6 weeks versus a LR cycle that can be significantly shorter. I would never say a fish based cycle is faster!!! Teach them patience and how to succeed. Why take up space with mollies? If people like them, man, keep a 10g freshwater and save the money.

 

[pohtr]

Wow, thanks for all the input.
I put one large shrimp in and it has disintegrated away. I'm putting more (4-5?) in this afternoon. My readings are all still at zero.
Embrands - The reason I was given by the last lfs who sounded VERY knowledgeable was that the shrimp introduces all sorts of undesireables like fungus & maybe bad bacteria. I'm sorry, being a noob its hard for me to remember the details of all the various reasons I get for all sorts of differing advice.
Yosemite Sam - I have only about 4 lbs of live rock & about 5 lbs of live sand (which was very smelly at first)

 

[hydro]

you need more LR and LS if your tank is 90 Gal.......one shrimp is all you need.........have you checked your levels????????????

 

[ophiura]

What other filtration do you have? I agree that it sounds like very little LR...not a big issue if it is not your primary filtration (eg you have a wet/dry) but in terms of places to hide, etc...then it would become an issue not to have more structure.

 

[lion_crazz]

Originally posted by GreatfullReefer
I Do not mean to offend but LFS advice is 99% INCORRECT!!!
Well, not to get into this old debate, but you and I both know that LFS advice is not 99% incorrect. People just need to do research from various sources and then qualify what they hear and read.
However, with that said, too many places do recommend to cycle a tank with live rock rather than shrimp or rock. I always prefer people to cycle with rock because it is something that they are going to need in the future anyways, and they will not have to cure it for 4 weeks in a bucket if they use it to cycle thier tank.
Like someone already said though, too many people are way too impatient with their tank and want to jump right into it. They will not leave the fish store without a fish, and eventually someone in the store will tell them that damsels are "safe" for a new tank. I know some people who will ask me a question, and then go over to someone else and ask the same question, hoping for a different answer.
What kills me though is after they bring the damsels back in from their "cycled tank" that they did not check the parameters on, they will ask what fish they can get to go in the tank now that the damsels are gone and wind up walking out with a panther grouper, lunare wrasse, and a yellow tang.
And ophiura, you are giving some lfs' too much credit and "grace". I know a lot of places that do not even give 50% of the original price for the returned fish.
Lastly, poisony2k, a one hour acclimation for a brackish water molly really is not long enough to eliminate its stress level of changing salt levels. If you really cared about the fish being stressed, you would tie a knot in the acclimation tube and acclimate them for 2 to 3 hours so that the specific gravity does not go up too fast. A one hour acclimation is going to shock them. Think about it. They are going from a brackish SG of 1.010 to 1.021-25 in an hour. That is a huge change. Even for my fish which go though a few point change, I still give them an hour and a half.

 

[mbrands]

Originally posted by lion_crazz
And ophiura, you are giving some lfs' too much credit and "grace". I know a lot of places that do not even give 50% of the original price for the returned fish.
Mine gave me only 33% for a completely healthy Hawaiian Sptted Puffer. He had to find a new home as I convert to reef and I couldn't afford to set up another tank just for him.

 

[lion_crazz]

Originally posted by mbrands
Mine gave me only 33% for a completely healthy Hawaiian Sptted Puffer. He had to find a new home as I convert to reef and I couldn't afford to set up another tank just for him.

That is very common mbrands...

 

[mbrands]

I know. I was more concerned that they end up selling him to a good home (i.e. responsible hobbyist). Sounds silly doesn't it?

 

[ophiura]

Originally posted by mbrands
I know. I was more concerned that they end up selling him to a good home (i.e. responsible hobbyist). Sounds silly doesn't it?
No, not at all. In fact, this is one major issue with people buying tangs. They get attached, and the thought of where they might be sold too is a reason they end up being left in a small tank. Not silly at all!
It influences my selection of fish for sure, but I am also exceedingly lucky. I have access to very large systems where I can "donate" a fish, including at my LFS (a 3,000g "tang sea" and a 40,000g). Phew.
My name is Ophiura. And I sold damsels to people to cycle tanks. Yup :nope: I worked at an LFS, and that was the deal. I didn't know a lot better at the time.

And that is often true. Now I try and make up for it by steering people down a better path I hope.