Why not use Cupramine for QT?

john f

john f

Member
Well..............this should start WWIII.
I have been reading every post on the net I could find and following all of the in vogue advice. So I have started quarantine for my 1000 reef with a 55 gallon tank running hyposalinity.
So far I have had 7 fish die due to amyloodinium and at least 1 die secondary to a gill fluke infestation.
I think I want to switch to cupramine for the Q tank and forget about hyposalinity.
Hypo may work fine for cryptocaryon, but as far as I can tell that is all.
So Hypo does not work for: amyloodinium, gill flukes, black spot, uronema, etc.
Why then are so many people in love with hyposalinity. I have tried it now for several Q cycles and so far my 1000 gallon reef has not one fish in it.
So I have two choices.............1. Forget quarantine and add fish directly to display. or 2. Quarantine with cupramine and eliminate amyloodinium, cryptocaryon, gill flukes........
Why not?
John
 
john f

john f

Member
"I do find that losing 7 fish to velvet (independently contracted, and not from same infection in the same tank) to be highly unusual."
Ever had it?
I lost the first 5 all at once. They were all I had in the Q tank and I thought that I had killed them with ammonia as I had a small spike when I tested.
So I waited until the ammonia dropped to zero....then put a couple more fish in. The new fish dies in like 2 days......at which time I knew I had a disease present and had a Vet confirm it was amlyoodinium.
John
 
john f

john f

Member
Ed,
The display tank is a 1000 gallon reef.
I plan on having about 40 fish in it.
You really think the way to do it is quarantine 1 fish at a time for 3-4 weeks?
At that rate it will take 4 years to stock the tank.
It's also completly impracticle.
If I want a group of anthias for example, they simply can't be added 1 fish at a time over a year.
Try and add 1 tang at a time to a display tank and watch the new ones get torn up.
So my other option would be to setup and run 5-6 seperate Q-tanks. Don't think so.
John
 
john f

john f

Member
"and I have 6 quarantine/holding tanks running with fish (some quite rare species as well), and am about to up that to 10 with 4 more 55's"
I guess it must be nice to do this for a living.
Us mere mortals have other jobs and don't have a store/holding facility to do this.
Want to Q some fish for me?
How much do you charge?
John
 
john f

john f

Member
Wow,
where do you have the 6-10 q tanks set up?
I have a 3800 square foot house and I don't have room for that. Well, not unless I convert all the spare bedrooms to fishrooms. I'm pretty sure the wife would not go for that.
I'm sorry I assumed you must be quarantining those fish to get paid. Is this not the case?
John
 
john f

john f

Member
"BTW, copper does not cure gill flukes"
Do we know this for sure? Or are there just no studies to prove it?
I have a hard time believing copper kills every invertebrate, snails, worms, sand bed infauna and corals.............but the small parasitic worms can survive it.
John
 
john f

john f

Member
Actually,
I just found an article from the University of Florida Agricultural extension service.
<a href="http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu//pdffiles/FA/FA03300.pdf" target="_blank">http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu//pdffiles/FA/FA03300.pdf</a>
Basically they state copper can be used to control marine monogenean parasites( saltwater gill flukes) but that complete elimination at 0.2 levels is often difficult.
John
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Terry, have you ever used Chloroquine to treat oodinium? I have some of this medication. It is very bitter. Was wondering how well it dissolves in salt water and its effectiveness over copper.
 
john f

john f

Member
"Dr. Noga, for example list copper as 9th most effective treatment for gill flukes."
Is this freshwater dactylogyrus or the saltwater flukes?
Just to be clear I am NOT using copper to treat gill flukes. My point was when using copper in quarantine more diseases can be controlled/eliminated.
BTW, most of the studies done on flukes have involved the freshwater species.
Did you know the prefered method for treating those in most studies was organophosphates?
Then high on the list (maybe 2nd or 3rd) are pesticides?
I'm sure we don't want to use any of those in our systems.
A simple 10 minute freshwater dip before the fish enter quarantine will eliminate most or all flukes anyway.
John
 
john f

john f

Member
"Long term exposure to hyposalinity at 20ppt or less seems to be pretty effective. "
Would you mind posting the reference? Not doubting you, just want to read it for myself.
John
 
john f

john f

Member
I need to get that book. Noga is a graduate of University of Florida ( Go Gators! )
BTW....................that sounds like an anectdotal observation, not a verified scientific conclusion.
So you can rest easy; I have gone back to Hypo in the Q tank. Not because I don't think copper would work but because I can't measure the copper. I have tries 2 different multitest coppers ( Seachems ) and the red sea kit. I can't even get a reading on the reference sample for the seachem kit and the red Sea kit is hard to read and tops out at 0.4mg/l. Since I can't test for therapuetic levels on the Cupramine I believe I am better of using the refractometer to test for 13-14 ppt. :)
John
 
john f

john f

Member
I did a search on parisitology online and could not find any references to support hyposalinity for marine monogenean trematodes.
Not saying they don't exist, but I would sure like to read them.
John
 
john f

john f

Member
"I'm sure you're well aware that 99% of university and other research done is not classified on-line for people to access"
Easy now. No, I am not aware that abstracts can not be found. Full articles are difficult to find, but abstracts can be found in many places on the web.
Would you mind giving the titles or journal names for those two articles?
John
 
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