Will debt be the demise of the U.S.?

sickboy

sickboy

Active Member
What do you think?
It seems to me that (very simplified) Democrats want to expand Federal social programs & Republicans want tax cuts. The dems think this will eventually increase tax revenue by helping the lower classes "raise themselves up" to a "better life." The Reps think that tax cuts will eventually lead to solving all our problems b/c people will have more money. NEITHER of these theories has any factual base, in fact there are more instances of these ideas doing more harm than good.
If the U.S. gov't, U.S. corporations, & U.S. citizens were all required to pay back their debt immediately, only a few would not be bankrupt...
So, why is nobody talking about our debt? How to fix it? We can't cut taxes, we need to raise them to balance the budget. We can't increase social programs, we need to trim them to balance the budget. If we don't, our great- great- great- great- great- .... grandchildren are going to be buried in our debt. How are they suppose to have small gov't & liberties that we enjoy if all of their money goes to paying South Korea, China, etc.?
So, do you think debt will be our demise? Why are none of the media outlets or citizens concerned with our debt?
 
locoyo386

locoyo386

Member
This is a really complicated subjet. All I can say is that if you increase tax, it's bad. If you reduce tax, it's bad. If you decrease social services, it's bad. If you increase social services, you guesse it, it's bad. Debt will play a big role on how this country does in the long term, both individual debt and the national debt.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
When's the last time this country has been 'debt free'? Probably not since George Washington. The latest National Debt Clock I saw was:
U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK
The Outstanding Public Debt as of 08 Jul 2009 at 12:44:16 PM GMT is:
$11,526,839,222,051.34
The estimated population of the United States is 306,510,088
so each citizen's share of this debt is $37,606.72.
The National Debt has continued to increase an average of
$3.88 billion per day since September 28, 2007!
So to answer your question, this debt will probably never be paid off, doesn't matter if you increase taxes, reduce taxes to increase spending, cut off government programs, anything.
I think what everyone uses to gauge our Federal spending is the Balanced Budget. We're doing good when we have more incoming than we have outgoing. Think Clinton was the last President that had a budget surplus:
http://zfacts.com/p/318.html
Here's a link showing a pie chart how the National Debt is sliced up as to who owns what debt:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/faq.html
 
oscardeuce

oscardeuce

Active Member
Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/3080125
What do you think?
It seems to me that (very simplified) Democrats want to expand Federal social programs & Republicans want tax cuts. The dems think this will eventually increase tax revenue by helping the lower classes "raise themselves up" to a "better life." The Reps think that tax cuts will eventually lead to solving all our problems b/c people will have more money. NEITHER of these theories has any factual base, in fact there are more instances of these ideas doing more harm than good.
If the U.S. gov't, U.S. corporations, & U.S. citizens were all required to pay back their debt immediately, only a few would not be bankrupt...
So, why is nobody talking about our debt? How to fix it? We can't cut taxes, we need to raise them to balance the budget. We can't increase social programs, we need to trim them to balance the budget. If we don't, our great- great- great- great- great- .... grandchildren are going to be buried in our debt. How are they suppose to have small gov't & liberties that we enjoy if all of their money goes to paying South Korea, China, etc.?
So, do you think debt will be our demise? Why are none of the media outlets or citizens concerned with our debt?
Actually there is good evidence tax cuts lead to unchanged or even increased revenue.
The war on poverty that started with the "great society" under Johnson has failed. It has made millions dependant on the gov't for their needs. 7 trillion dollars over 40 years hasn't lifted many up.
The biggest problem is spending above and beyond the revenue you have. This has been ongoing especially for non-Constitutional spending since Bush 1, increased under Clinton and GW. The mushroom cloud of spending has gone up exponentially under Pres. Obama.
I agree the debt is the great albatross around the neck of the economy.
 
roadie996

roadie996

Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3080252
When's the last time this country has been 'debt free'? Probably not since George Washington. The latest National Debt Clock I saw was:
the last time it was debt free was during the Clinton administration when we have around a 500 billion to 1 trillion dollar surplus. So, that was about 10-12 years ago... and he brought us out of a hell of a debt that our last presidents Father and a few before him created. Its very possible for us to recover under Obama's term, and not everything can and will result in bad outcomes.
 
al mc

al mc

Active Member
I do not think even with 8 years with Obama we will see a balanced budget. I
go with Oscarduece here.....Tax cuts are the best way to stimulate the economy. This happened under Reagan and set up the situation for the economy to stabilize/budget balance (more on that later) under Bush 1/Clinton.
More money in the economy thru tax cuts led to more economic growth/more jobs and ultimately more tax revenue...
Balanced budget...For years our government has used the social security surplus to be used in budget calculations to give us the illusion that the
country's debt is smaller than it is......I am still looking for someone in congress to actually say that 'the emporer has no cloths'...
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by roadie996
http:///forum/post/3080261
the last time it was debt free was during the Clinton administration when we have around a 500 billion to 1 trillion dollar surplus. So, that was about 10-12 years ago... and he brought us out of a hell of a debt that our last presidents Father and a few before him created. Its very possible for us to recover under Obama's term, and not everything can and will result in bad outcomes.
You really need to do a little research. We have had a deficit for decades. During the tech boom of the late 90's there were a few years of surpluses but nothing close to what you listed and they weren't a pimple on a gnats hind quarters when it came to the overall deficit, they didn't make a dent.
The Reform party had the right idea back in the 90's, no tax cuts or spending increases until the debt was settled.
One way of cutting government spending is to vote the incumbents out of Congress and elect people from the real world. It's amazing how lavish a lifestyle these clowns enjoy at the taxpayer's expense. Maybe when voters start throwing thr bums out they will spend more time doing their jobs than taking "fact finding" trips to the riviera and Bahamas.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by Al Mc
http:///forum/post/3080288
I do not think even with 8 years with Obama we will see a balanced budget. I
go with Oscarduece here.....Tax cuts are the best way to stimulate the economy. This happened under Reagan and set up the situation for the economy to stabilize/budget balance (more on that later) under Bush 1/Clinton.
More money in the economy thru tax cuts led to more economic growth/more jobs and ultimately more tax revenue...
Balanced budget...For years our government has used the social security surplus to be used in budget calculations to give us the illusion that the
country's debt is smaller than it is......I am still looking for someone in congress to actually say that 'the emporer has no cloths'...
Tax cuts only work if the tax rate has been too high causing people to lay their assets away or hold investments to avoid taxes. Once the cuts hit there tends to be a surge of investment and profit taking and tax revenue surges with it. I am not sure dropping them now for the average joe will have much of an impact. I think changing the way we treat corporations is the way to go. We need foreign companies to move their operations here. Some of the car companies have build factories here but that is more of a matter of shipping logistics.
 
roadie996

roadie996

Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3080300
You really need to do a little research. We have had a deficit for decades. During the tech boom of the late 90's there were a few years of surpluses but nothing close to what you listed and they weren't a pimple on a gnats hind quarters when it came to the overall deficit, they didn't make a dent.
Clearly you need to review your facts. As my numbers may have been slightly off, there was a balanced budget and a surplus.
here's my proof:
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactchec...e_federal.html
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by roadie996
http:///forum/post/3080261
the last time it was debt free was during the Clinton administration when we have around a 500 billion to 1 trillion dollar surplus. So, that was about 10-12 years ago... and he brought us out of a hell of a debt that our last presidents Father and a few before him created. Its very possible for us to recover under Obama's term, and not everything can and will result in bad outcomes.
You're thinking of a Balanced Budget and the Federal Deficit, not the National Debt. The Federal Deficit is the annual additions to the National Debt. All Clinton did was reduce what was added (and erased a little) to the National Debt. Cut government spending, and the National Debt will stop growing. If Obama and his buddies could figure out how to accomplish this fete without bankrupting the American public, you still have to figure a way to come up with $11 TRILLION to pay off our debt to everyone. So how long would it take to pay off this amount if the Federal Government quit adding to the National Debt?
What I find interesting is the Federal Govt. can have a $11 trillion dollar loan, and supposedly pays no penalties for nonpayment. Yet if I did the same thing with my credit cards,

[hr]
, or car loans, I'd be kicked out of my house and have to file for bankruptcy. Whatever happened to 'Lead By Example'?
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3080252
When's the last time this country has been 'debt free'? Probably not since George Washington. The latest National Debt Clock I saw was:
U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK
The Outstanding Public Debt as of 08 Jul 2009 at 12:44:16 PM GMT is:
$11,526,839,222,051.34
The estimated population of the United States is 306,510,088
so each citizen's share of this debt is $37,606.72.
The National Debt has continued to increase an average of
$3.88 billion per day since September 28, 2007!
So to answer your question, this debt will probably never be paid off, doesn't matter if you increase taxes, reduce taxes to increase spending, cut off government programs, anything.
I think what everyone uses to gauge our Federal spending is the Balanced Budget. We're doing good when we have more incoming than we have outgoing. Think Clinton was the last President that had a budget surplus:
http://zfacts.com/p/318.html
Here's a link showing a pie chart how the National Debt is sliced up as to who owns what debt:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/faq.html
No we borrowed all sorts of money during the revolutionary war. I'm pretty sure when the french came to help us with ships and mercenaries, that it was a loan.
Originally Posted by roadie996
http:///forum/post/3080261
the last time it was debt free was during the Clinton administration when we have around a 500 billion to 1 trillion dollar surplus. So, that was about 10-12 years ago... and he brought us out of a hell of a debt that our last presidents Father and a few before him created. Its very possible for us to recover under Obama's term, and not everything can and will result in bad outcomes.
Another one today? Seriously?
Originally Posted by roadie996
http:///forum/post/3080324
Clearly you need to review your facts. As my numbers may have been slightly off, there was a balanced budget and a surplus.
CLEARLY you need to review your facts.
A balanced budget and national debt are 2 different things.
Lets boil it down to something you can understand.
This is a budget deficit.
Hypothetically I make 100 dollars a month. After all my bills I spend 150 dollars a month.
If continue this budgeting for 10 months how much money will I owe.
150-100= $50 per month * 10 months=
$500
This is the debt
Say I decide to cancel my cable. This costs $50 a month.
Balanced Budget
Now I make the same $100 per month but my bills are $100.
Did my debt magically go away. No still in debt.
So before you start playing know-it-all, at least KNOW the definitions of what you are talking about.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/3080125
What do you think?
It seems to me that (very simplified) Democrats want to expand Federal social programs & Republicans want tax cuts. The dems think this will eventually increase tax revenue by helping the lower classes "raise themselves up" to a "better life." The Reps think that tax cuts will eventually lead to solving all our problems b/c people will have more money. NEITHER of these theories has any factual base, in fact there are more instances of these ideas doing more harm than good.
If the U.S. gov't, U.S. corporations, & U.S. citizens were all required to pay back their debt immediately, only a few would not be bankrupt...
So, why is nobody talking about our debt? How to fix it? We can't cut taxes, we need to raise them to balance the budget. We can't increase social programs, we need to trim them to balance the budget. If we don't, our great- great- great- great- great- .... grandchildren are going to be buried in our debt. How are they suppose to have small gov't & liberties that we enjoy if all of their money goes to paying South Korea, China, etc.?
So, do you think debt will be our demise? Why are none of the media outlets or citizens concerned with our debt?
Who cares it is all fiat money anyway? There is no real value to it, except what we've agreed to value it as...
That is the justification I give to it so I don't pull my hair out...
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
To be honest, I am more concerned about the budget than the debt. We ow China lot of money, yes. But at the same point they make a lot of money from us. We buy their products, we pay the interest on the debt. They would be stupid to ask for it to be paid back....as long as we keep paying them and buying their stuff their country will make more money in the long haul than if they cashed in on what we owed.
We never had a surplus...Roadie needs to do some research, we did have psuedo balanced budget and it was the most balanced it had been in decades, but it was not a surplus. The extra money went back into the national fund and was spent on programs...if we had a surplus, we would have reduced our debt a tad bit. This did not happen.
To be honest, the debt won't ruin this country or be our demise...Apathy and lack of education will be. Look at how many on here would rather discuss the passing of a pop star that in the grand scheme of things just made music than discuss the problems of the country or the world....It is easier to discuss music than national problems....why? because you need to know very little.
When a person from a reality tv show such as the hills is more well known that a local congressman to the teenage and under 25 crowd...that is a huge problem.
How many of the young voters that went and voted Obama do you think could tell you who their Luitenant Governor is? When I was 20 I could tell you anything you wanted to know about music and bands, recite line for line many movies, but couldn't tell you who the governor of my state was at any given time. THIS is the demise of our country...apathy. Not money, not war, not taxation, not abortion, not gay marriage, ....apathy and pop culture.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3080362
To be honest, I am more concerned about the budget than the debt. We ow China lot of money, yes. But at the same point they make a lot of money from us. We buy their products, we pay the interest on the debt. They would be stupid to ask for it to be paid back....as long as we keep paying them and buying their stuff their country will make more money in the long haul than if they cashed in on what we owed.
We never had a surplus...Roadie needs to do some research, we did have psuedo balanced budget and it was the most balanced it had been in decades, but it was not a surplus. The extra money went back into the national fund and was spent on programs...if we had a surplus, we would have reduced our debt a tad bit. This did not happen.
To be honest, the debt won't ruin this country or be our demise...Apathy and lack of education will be. Look at how many on here would rather discuss the passing of a pop star that in the grand scheme of things just made music than discuss the problems of the country or the world....It is easier to discuss music than national problems....why? because you need to know very little.
When a person from a reality tv show such as the hills is more well known that a local congressman to the teenage and under 25 crowd...that is a huge problem.
How many of the young voters that went and voted Obama do you think could tell you who their Luitenant Governor is? When I was 20 I could tell you anything you wanted to know about music and bands, recite line for line many movies, but couldn't tell you who the governor of my state was at any given time. THIS is the demise of our country...apathy. Not money, not war, not taxation, not abortion, not gay marriage, ....apathy and pop culture.
90% of the American public would fail the Citizenship Test if they had to take it today. People are more concerned with Twitter, MySpace, YouTube, Cell Phones, Text messaging, and reality shows than they are with how the Federal Govt. is bending us over a table.
 
kjr_trig

kjr_trig

Active Member
Sickboy, isn't it the Democrat way to blame somebody else for their debt, and tax the wealthy more to make up for it? Fiscal responsibility is not a strong suit of any politician, nor most people in this country, but particularly not the Dems.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3080437
90% of the American public would fail the Citizenship Test if they had to take it today. People are more concerned with Twitter, MySpace, YouTube, Cell Phones, Text messaging, and reality shows than they are with how the Federal Govt. is bending us over a table.
Aint that the truth. People also need to learn the media has an agenda as well so trying to educate yourself about current events by watching to tube isn't a great idea either.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3080477
It starts with our educational system. I asked my daughter (who will be a senior in high school this year) if she knew what the Bill Of Rights and the Second Amendment were, and how old she had to be to vote. She said she hadn't learned that yet.

Can you pass the Citizenship Test?
http://www.us-immigration-attorney.c...izenship26.htm
http://noticias.aol.com/inmigracion/quiz/citizenship
lol obama might miss 46.
46. How many states are there in the Union?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top