Will Live Sand Cycle a Tank?

hmcklveen

hmcklveen

Member
My boyfriends mom is just setting up her saltwater tank and she added live sand about 2 months ago. She ended up buying 1 damsel because she listened to the LFS about thats the way to cycle a tank. She has a 55 gallon tank. I took my test kit over 2 weeks after she had the fish and Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates 0. I didn't think live sand by itself would do that. Or has it just not cycled yet? Is the damsel not producing enough waste to start it?
 
T

tizzo

Guest
Well, to put it simply and easily, the live sand was either cured or it wasn't. If it was not, then the die-off would create ammonia. If it was then she already has that much biological filtration and it can easily handle a damsel.
Where did she get the live sand? Those bags of it?
 
M

markeo99

Guest
absolutely iif it was true live sand all the organisms and algae and all that good stuff would die off just as live rock would and the bacteria shold be in the sand already
 
prime311

prime311

Active Member
I barely consider those bags of Live Sand real Live Sand. If you're tank is reading 0 Nitrates then something isn't right. Nitrates don't just go away without something helping remove it. Live Rock, Protein Skimmer, Fuge w'/Macroalgae, etc.. A 0 Nitrate reading in a newer tank with a fish in it makes me think you're test is wrong. With the fish in the tank though it should be cycled.
 
prime311

prime311

Active Member
I doubt thats enough to reduce Nitrate to 0. Maybe 5-10, considering theres only one small fish in there, but 0 is unlikely.
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Protein skimmers do not remove nitrates. What they do is this, remove the unwanted microscopic material in the water by forcing small bubbles into a column of water. These bubbles attach to the small protein particles and rise to the surface in a foam
 
T

tizzo

Guest
Nitrates are "starved" out, which is exactly why you can cure LR until ALL the parameters are 0. They get there on their own, even without water changes.
 
prime311

prime311

Active Member
Skimmers remove the waste that would otherwise cause a rise in nitrate levels thereby reducing the overall nitrate in your system compared to what it would be without one. So it may not remove Nitrate per se, but you will have lower Nitrates as a result.
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
all i am saying is proten skimmers do not REMOVE nitrates For the skimmer to remove them nitrates have to be present and if they are present skimming does nothing to remove them
 
prime311

prime311

Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2679036
all i am saying is proten skimmers do not REMOVE nitrates

Lol I know, I was just clarifying my comment. I think its highly unlikely, albeit possible, for a stocked tank w/o a Protein Skimmer to maintain 0 Nitrates.
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Tizzo
http:///forum/post/2679010
Nitrates are "starved" out, which is exactly why you can cure LR until ALL the parameters are 0. They get there on their own, even without water changes.
How exactly does one starve out their nitrates
 
sepulatian

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2679036
all i am saying is proten skimmers do not REMOVE nitrates For the skimmer to remove them nitrates have to be present and if they are present skimming does nothing to remove them
Right
the skimmer will NOT remove nitrates that are already there. They will remove some of what will become nitrates, but not the nitrates that are currently there.
Get the water double checked. It is possible that the cycle has not started yet. The live sand from Petsmart is not actually live. It is aragonite sand that contains cultures, not live bacteria.
 
prime311

prime311

Active Member
Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2679054
Get the water double checked. It is possible that the cycle has not started yet. The live sand from Petsmart is not actually live. It is aragonite sand that contains cultures, not live bacteria.

I think you missed the part about the damsel in the tank already for over 2 weeks. It would have to be cycled(or at least cycling) already or the damsel would be dead from not pooping. :D
 
sepulatian

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by prime311
http:///forum/post/2679057
I think you missed the part about the damsel in the tank already for over 2 weeks. It would have to be cycled(or at least cycling) already or the damsel would be dead from not pooping. :D
I didn't miss that at all. It is one damsel. I cycled my 55 with four of them. It took several weeks to get an ammonia reading. My nitrites didn't show up for well over a month
 
prime311

prime311

Active Member
Thats just a larger cycle I would think. One Damsel still creates waste that still makes ammonia and starts a cycle. It might be just a small amount of bacteria growth to accomodate the small amount of waste, but its there. 4 damsels is more waste and more bacteria needed to process the waste, thus a 'larger' cycle. I'm not sure how, scientifically, it could be any different.
 
sepulatian

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by prime311
http:///forum/post/2679068
Thats just a larger cycle I would think. One Damsel still creates waste that still makes ammonia and starts a cycle. It might be just a small amount of bacteria growth to accomodate the small amount of waste, but its there. 4 damsels is more waste and more bacteria needed to process the waste, thus a 'larger' cycle. I'm not sure how, scientifically, it could be any different.
I agree that there may be a small amount of bacteria there that has broken down the small amount of ammonia that the damsel is producing. It wasn't tested until two weeks after the damsel was in there. It is certainly possible. The nitrite should be showing by now though. The bacteria cultures in dry live sand would not be able to break down the nitrite, at least not so quickly.
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by prime311
http:///forum/post/2679041
Lol I know, I was just clarifying my comment. I think its highly unlikely, albeit possible, for a stocked tank w/o a Protein Skimmer to maintain 0 Nitrates.
Again I say protein skimmers do not remove nitrates. If you have a good multi system for removing them. You can most certainly run a tank with zero nitrates with out a protein skimmer. The problem arises when we do not have sufficient denitrification to deal with the nitrification process. That is where skimming reduces the amount of amino acids, proteins, fats, carbohydrates, phosphates, and metals
 
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