X-10's what the ???
- Thread starter benter
- Start date
scsinet
Active Member
X10 uses the power lines that ultimately connect all the modules together (I.E. the wiring in your home) to send control signals back and forth.
You plug a controller in, which can be a little on/off pad, a radio remote control, a compatible aquarium controller, or a computer interface. It sends signals to the modules, which your pumps, heaters, whatever connect to. Each module gets an ID to be able to control it separately from other stuff.
I personally don't trust it for aquarium use. It's too easy for a stray signal to turn something off when it shouldn't be off, or, more likely, too easy for a signal sent by the controller to fail to address the unit. Because the communication is one way (there are two way systems, but I don't know of any aquarium controllers that support it), there is no way for the module to confirm back that it got the signal, so if it fails to say... turn off a heater... well... yeah.
At the same time, since there are commerical manufacturers out there who use X10 as part of their controller products, then maybe it's reasonably dependable in this application. I don't know. To learn up on it, look on X10's web site.
You plug a controller in, which can be a little on/off pad, a radio remote control, a compatible aquarium controller, or a computer interface. It sends signals to the modules, which your pumps, heaters, whatever connect to. Each module gets an ID to be able to control it separately from other stuff.
I personally don't trust it for aquarium use. It's too easy for a stray signal to turn something off when it shouldn't be off, or, more likely, too easy for a signal sent by the controller to fail to address the unit. Because the communication is one way (there are two way systems, but I don't know of any aquarium controllers that support it), there is no way for the module to confirm back that it got the signal, so if it fails to say... turn off a heater... well... yeah.
At the same time, since there are commerical manufacturers out there who use X10 as part of their controller products, then maybe it's reasonably dependable in this application. I don't know. To learn up on it, look on X10's web site.
dderue
New Member
I use the X10 for my lighting sequence. I run three different systems, one for the Atinics, one on the MH's, and one on the moon lighting. I would not trust them for a heater, but most heaters have an internal thermastate, or some other type of stat that would control themselves. I don't know why you would want to try and control the heater any other manual way than the way it is built.
The nice thing with the X10 is that the possibilities are endless. If you want to set up your power heads on them, you can program them to turn on and off to create current changes. Also, the X10 is very helpful around the house for other aplications. I have lights set to turn on at dusk, you can set up vacation catagories for when you go away, they will turn lights on that you normally manually do. the programs are very user freindly. If you want to try it out, go over to Radio shack, they have starter kits, it is a clock that will control 4 circuits, and it comes with some controllers. If you like it, you can order the computer interface and get into more extensive sequencing.
Once in a while they will not command on. If that is the case, you can go to your controller and command it on. If it is a light or a power head, it is no big deal if it misses a command.
If you don't want to deal with timers, this the way to go. You'll wonder what you did with out it.
The nice thing with the X10 is that the possibilities are endless. If you want to set up your power heads on them, you can program them to turn on and off to create current changes. Also, the X10 is very helpful around the house for other aplications. I have lights set to turn on at dusk, you can set up vacation catagories for when you go away, they will turn lights on that you normally manually do. the programs are very user freindly. If you want to try it out, go over to Radio shack, they have starter kits, it is a clock that will control 4 circuits, and it comes with some controllers. If you like it, you can order the computer interface and get into more extensive sequencing.
Once in a while they will not command on. If that is the case, you can go to your controller and command it on. If it is a light or a power head, it is no big deal if it misses a command.
If you don't want to deal with timers, this the way to go. You'll wonder what you did with out it.
nytrillium
Member
Please elaborate as i am looking into working an automatic system for my tank... I tend to be forgetful and it would be good to have things on an automatic cycle....
I have learned to program in Direct Logic and i thought that these modules would be handy to use for my tank.. they are simple to program and have multiple setups and configurations. Obviously things like heaters sholdnt be put on this type of system but lighting and pumps would be good candidates.
Sorry for the hijack but its kindof the same topic.
I have learned to program in Direct Logic and i thought that these modules would be handy to use for my tank.. they are simple to program and have multiple setups and configurations. Obviously things like heaters sholdnt be put on this type of system but lighting and pumps would be good candidates.
Sorry for the hijack but its kindof the same topic.
acrylic51
Active Member
I'm saying the X-10's are very nice, but they can be interfered with very easily and alot of people have gone that route only to find out interference from ballasts and such throw them off to the point they don't function......Like putting your chiller or such on an X-10 would be insane if you want reliabilty. Most people if they are looking for real dependabilty they look at something like the Neptune system use like the DC8's or DC10's.
What I'm saying if you not putting critical vital equipment on the X-10's I'd say sure, but something that has to work without a doubt forget it
What I'm saying if you not putting critical vital equipment on the X-10's I'd say sure, but something that has to work without a doubt forget it
benter
Member
I was curious because when I started this thread ..I built a custom electrical control box for my tank . Using plug in relays and solid state off delays and on delay relays to run my whole tank off of one plug in the wall timer, complete with an on-off-automatic switch for every pump and light that I have . But someone here asked why I didn't use the X-10's. And I think you just answered that for me..Thanks.
nytrillium
Member
Benter, could you perhaps take some pictures of your setup. Or maybe a few diagrams or schematics. I am looking at doing something similar for my tank. I am going to school for electrical engineering and someting like that would be right up my alley.
bob a.
Member
I always wondered about x10 stuff and how it controls the outlet. For instance, some types of sold state dimmers and switches chop the 60 hz signal and I would think that would be rather bad for a flourescent light ballast. I am running 4 timers on one tank and the x10 stuff would be nice for automation purposes. Just curious if anybody has been controlling their lighting via x10 for awhile and how it has worked out.
lepete
Member
Originally Posted by Bob A.
I always wondered about x10 stuff and how it controls the outlet. For instance, some types of sold state dimmers and switches chop the 60 hz signal and I would think that would be rather bad for a flourescent light ballast. I am running 4 timers on one tank and the x10 stuff would be nice for automation purposes. Just curious if anybody has been controlling their lighting via x10 for awhile and how it has worked out.
There are 2 types of X10 outlets: on/off type and dimmer type. Dimmer types will chop 60 Hz (during 'diming' state) therefore wont work for flourescent ballasts or inductive load (AC fans).
All X10 is is a controller signal. This signal is embeded within the 60 Hz. A noisy line will mask/drown/inject signals. I am not a fan of X10 for those reasons.
I always wondered about x10 stuff and how it controls the outlet. For instance, some types of sold state dimmers and switches chop the 60 hz signal and I would think that would be rather bad for a flourescent light ballast. I am running 4 timers on one tank and the x10 stuff would be nice for automation purposes. Just curious if anybody has been controlling their lighting via x10 for awhile and how it has worked out.
There are 2 types of X10 outlets: on/off type and dimmer type. Dimmer types will chop 60 Hz (during 'diming' state) therefore wont work for flourescent ballasts or inductive load (AC fans).
All X10 is is a controller signal. This signal is embeded within the 60 Hz. A noisy line will mask/drown/inject signals. I am not a fan of X10 for those reasons.
nytrillium
Member
Well i managed to find your post about your DIY control box... Pretty sweet. I was just wondering why you decided to do the mechanical relays instead of PLC. It seems that PLC would be easily modified and would take far less hardware to run. Ive looked on Ebizzle at PLC devices and ive found a couple (Mitsubishi) that have built in real time clocks which would eliminate all together the need for a timer. With Digital/analog IO you could have infinite possibilities to contro anything without the size of the relays.
Not bashing your work. Looks awesome and i wish i had somehting that nice... Right now Im all manual
. ON in the morning off at night... plug it in, unplug it.. It blows....
Not bashing your work. Looks awesome and i wish i had somehting that nice... Right now Im all manual
benter
Member
nytrillium..here ya go..heres a pic of the switches ouside, the inside of the panel, and where it is mounted to give a size reference. Pretty simple as you can see really. 2 eleven pin relays, 1 off delay relay and 1 on delay relay.!! I am running 4 sets of lights, 3 fans, and 3 pumps. all off of one timer in the wall...
benter
Member
Just had some spare parts left over from a control panel rehab I did one day, and besides I mess with the plc's vfd's digital this and 4-20 that all day at work...And I am a firm believer in the K.I.S.S. method..Relay goes bad unplug it and plug another one in $10.00 and I am back in action..
dderue
New Member
Originally Posted by Bob A.
I always wondered about x10 stuff and how it controls the outlet. For instance, some types of sold state dimmers and switches chop the 60 hz signal and I would think that would be rather bad for a flourescent light ballast. I am running 4 timers on one tank and the x10 stuff would be nice for automation purposes. Just curious if anybody has been controlling their lighting via x10 for awhile and how it has worked out.
All of them I run are appliance modules, therefore they are on or off, no dimming. Also, one of my circuits is running the transmitter. the transmitter takes the signal from the computer module and sends it thru the line. The closer the module is to the rest of your circuits, the better it will work, less interference. Is X10 fool proof, Not at all. But I am not an electrician and wouldn't even think of designing/ creating a control pannel like above. For me X10 is reliable enough, misses maybe once a month, and is very easy to program thru my computer. The only think 100% foolproof is to do it manually, and even then everyone is human!! I run three different lighting circuits on the X10, it has worked for me for two and a half years so far, I am not about to switch.
I always wondered about x10 stuff and how it controls the outlet. For instance, some types of sold state dimmers and switches chop the 60 hz signal and I would think that would be rather bad for a flourescent light ballast. I am running 4 timers on one tank and the x10 stuff would be nice for automation purposes. Just curious if anybody has been controlling their lighting via x10 for awhile and how it has worked out.
All of them I run are appliance modules, therefore they are on or off, no dimming. Also, one of my circuits is running the transmitter. the transmitter takes the signal from the computer module and sends it thru the line. The closer the module is to the rest of your circuits, the better it will work, less interference. Is X10 fool proof, Not at all. But I am not an electrician and wouldn't even think of designing/ creating a control pannel like above. For me X10 is reliable enough, misses maybe once a month, and is very easy to program thru my computer. The only think 100% foolproof is to do it manually, and even then everyone is human!! I run three different lighting circuits on the X10, it has worked for me for two and a half years so far, I am not about to switch.
nytrillium
Member
HAHA.. Then i guess im ahead of everyone here now... Since im fully manual at the moment.
Thanks Benter. KISS... very true.
I learned on the Direct Logic PLC devices and i thought they were really cool. However im not sure that the Ladder logic programing is the easiest way for an aquarium. Some that i have seen use a GUI type programming language.
I learned on the Direct Logic PLC devices and i thought they were really cool. However im not sure that the Ladder logic programing is the easiest way for an aquarium. Some that i have seen use a GUI type programming language.
nytrillium
Member
Sorry to keep changing the subject here. but could you recommend a specific brand/type/model of PLC unit to buy? I looked on the famous auction site and they have many salvaged working units. However i think that they are all outdated and im not sure that programming software would be compatible with winXP and the serial connections wouldnt work with my laptop that only has USB and no serial. I kinof liked the one mitsubishi thats there i think it has like 9 in and 10 out or something like that with a display built in. Most of the units are less than 100$ including shipping.