Yah I flooded my living room because I rule.

[crimthann]

Here's how my first tank set up has gone.

Yah so apparently it's not good when all of your water in your tank makes its way down into your sump. Any ideas on how to avoid this from happening? Here's my set up... It looks like when the pump shut off my pipes that were suppose to return water to my tank syphoned all of the water out of the tank. The only thing i can think of would be one way valves just above the pumps in the PVC. Anyone see anything else wrong with my design other than my photo shop skills . Keep in mind only the pumps are in the sump.. everything else is behind it.

 

[acrylic51]

Kinda confused by your pic, but I'll take a stab.....I don't know what the valve will do for you since you won't be there to shut the valve off to prevent it from back syphoning........ :scared:
You stated your pump shut down and it syphoned the water from your tank and overflowed your sump......What you actually need to do is the return line needs to be drilled with and anti syphon hole in your return line just below the water line in the tank.....that way in the event of another power outage, the water would only back syphon till it reached that little hole you drilled in your return line, and the syphon would be broken preventing water from syphoning back to your sump....HTH

 

[scotts]

OK the main thing you want to look for is how far underwater are your retrun lines? Yes when your pump turns off they will siphon the water back into your sump. SO what you need is for the level of your return to be right about the water level in the tank. You can do this by either having the retrn line right there, or drilling a small hole in your return line right below the water level. This will act as a siphon break if your pump ever tops again.
HTH, I am pretty tired right now so if you need me to make more sense in the morning I will try. ALthough I am not making any promises.
Scott

 

[qreef]

well a few things could go wrong
1.Your return line -nozzle are too low from the water line and since your sump is small when is syphon down it will over flow your sump
2.your overflow box set too low
3.Your sump may be too small
4.Install one way valve in the return line

 

[acrylic51]

Originally Posted by Qreef
well a few things could go wrong
1.Your return line -nozzle are too low from the water line and since your sump is small when is syphon down it will over flow your sump
2.your overflow box set too low
3.Your sump may be too small
4.Install one way valve in the return line
There's no need to pull the return lines further up in the tank if you choose not to, because by drilling the syphon break holes just beneath the water line you limit the water that will back syphon.....meaning the tank will only drain to the hole drilled in the return line, so you can run the return line all the way to the bottom of the tank if you choose.......
Check valves are a safety item that can be employed, but they aren't 100% effective and they do fail.......I prefer the TruUnion check valve that is see through and you can see if it's operating or not during routine maintenance, and if need be it can be disassembled and rebuilt over time.......
Another area is to make sure your water height isn't to deep for the sump to handle....This can be checked by turning off the power to your pump and seeing how much will back syphon to the sump....Of course we know as the system sits now it will all back syphon to the floor, but trust me on this one, if you just drill your return line just below the water line, and mine is drilled about even with the teeth in my overflow box, and the water won't drain any further than that point set by the overflow box, and it won't drain water past the syphon break hole in the return line......
You can check out my setup on the Reef Forum.....I spent almost 3 whole days playing with water levels and back syphon just for that reason.....without those holes your risking it......

 

[mandarin w]

It is very simple, just drill a small hole in the return just under the water line.

If you lose power, or turn off your pumps for maintainance, the water will back syphin, but only until the water drops to where the hole is in the return line. Then the air breaks the syphin. and it stops. Just as Acrylic said. The only thing is, you need to lleave room in your sump to allow for this extra water. The best way to see how far you can keep your sump filled is to turn off everything, Let it drain into your sump. Do this when your water is low in your sump. After everything has stopped draining.Then you can fill your sump up as far as you safely can. Then you start up the tank, The water in the sump will drop again, This is the level you want to mark on your sump. This will be the DO NOT FILL PAST THIS LEVEL mark. Then if you ever have another outage, you should be fine. Just one more note, Remember to take a toothpick and poke the hole clean of saltcreep once a week. You don't want you hole to get plugged up, you will be looking at a room full of water again.

 

[acrylic51]

Trust me I forgot to drill the syphon hole on my new setup and shut it down to tweak a bit, and just happened to walk into the filter room and look at the sump...... :scared: :scared: I immediately made it a point to drill it even though just flow testing......I continuously shut it down to make changes and don't need the extra worry....

 

[xdave]

Seen that done before. OOOPS!!!

 

[scsinet]

It's good to get your first flood out of the way early on.
... oh and don't bother with check valves. Do what these guys said and drill siphon holes. Check valves never work when they are supposed to.

 

[drewdog82]

Originally Posted by acrylic51
Kinda confused by your pic, but I'll take a stab.....I don't know what the valve will do for you since you won't be there to shut the valve off to prevent it from back syphoning........ :scared:
You stated your pump shut down and it syphoned the water from your tank and overflowed your sump......What you actually need to do is the return line needs to be drilled with and anti syphon hole in your return line just below the water line in the tank.....that way in the event of another power outage, the water would only back syphon till it reached that little hole you drilled in your return line, and the syphon would be broken preventing water from syphoning back to your sump....HTH
I am using vinyl tubing instead of pvc, from my return pump to the display. If I have my return pump in the bottom of my sump, should I cut a small whole in the tubing just below the water line??? Also, just to be sure, this is a hole below the water line, not above, right???

 

[acrylic51]

Honestly I can't comment on vinyl tubing, since I don't advocate it's use......I've seen to many crazy things happen with vinyl.....tighten a clamp to much...

the dog, or cat gets a hold of it.... :scared: I don't really think it would work with vinyl, because it seems like the hole itself would collapse or seal somewhat of itself.......I'll have to try drilling a piece of vinyl laying around real quick.....

 

[acrylic51]

Just ran out to the garage and tried it and yes the vinyl can be drilled and the hole did stay open.....the hose though was roughly 3/4" ID, but would assume smaller line would work as well.....if you have a scrap piece try it first on that.....

 

[acrylic51]

Originally Posted by drewdog82
I am using vinyl tubing instead of pvc, from my return pump to the display. If I have my return pump in the bottom of my sump, should I cut a small whole in the tubing just below the water line??? Also, just to be sure, this is a hole below the water line, not above, right???
Yes correct just below the water line.....Does your tubing extend down further than the teeth on the overflow box? If your line doesn't the tank will still back syphon till the overflow box, but you do want to drill the hole below the water line......

 

[crimthann]

Oh well live and learn . The hole on the one return was high enough not to make a syphon but it was my left on that was too low. I'll re-drill it out tonight. My sump's definately not too small. It's L:30" x W:12" x H:16" and my tank is 36 x 18 x 24. I just let it suck out about 8 inches of water while I was fixing something on my skimmer . Well at least i assumed i'd make a mess and i had that painter's plastic stuff all under my tank and over any electrical stuff.
Hopefully I'll have everything working right tonight for my live rock coming in tomorrow.

 

[acrylic51]

Good luck!!!!!!!

 

[1journeyman]

Crimthann, I feel your pain... this is the first tank I've done a sump/refugium on.
Let's just say I learned a lot....

 

[acrylic51]

I think we all learn alot from our first floods!!!!!

 

[drewdog82]

Originally Posted by acrylic51
Yes correct just below the water line.....Does your tubing extend down further than the teeth on the overflow box? If your line doesn't the tank will still back syphon till the overflow box, but you do want to drill the hole below the water line......
I was very confused for a second. I thought the hole was to be drilled in the tubing, just below the water line in the sump..... then I realized that that couldn't work. Now I realize u mean to put the whole in the tubing just below the water line in the display tank.... this is correct, right???
Also, would it be better to have the return line above end up above or below the teeth of the overflow box???

 

[acrylic51]

Your correct the hole should be drilled in the line or end that's in the display tank....Sorry about being vague.....It doesn't matter if the hole drilled in the return line is above the teeth of the overflow, because the water will still back syphon through the overflow till it falls beneath the teeth......

 

[darknes]

I just want to make a suggestion. Make sure that the vinyl tubing going into the display tank is vertical, and not at an angle. If it's at an angle, and you drill your hole, you will get a small stream of water that shoots up out of your tank.