Yea, Bush's 'War On Terror' is working great

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3143157
Believe me, I remember the debates about this subject, and many here ranted the "no attacks have been made on American soil since Bush took over" rhetoric so many times it was nauseating.

And this statement was false how?
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3143158
And this statement was false how?
Did you not read what I said about the point I was making? During these debates is when I stated that yes, no attacks had been made YET. That's when all the disagreement came around that if there were terrorist cells in the US, why didn't they do something. I then made the comment that it takes time to find the right strategy and target. Well guess what. Looks like they're finally ready to find one.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3143166
Did you not read what I said about the point I was making? During these debates is when I stated that yes, no attacks had been made YET. That's when all the disagreement came around that if there were terrorist cells in the US, why didn't they do something. I then made the comment that it takes time to find the right strategy and target. Well guess what. Looks like they're finally ready to find one.

And again, was it successful? They afghan and Iraq wars OBVIOUSLY are disrupting something. since they strike elsewhere in other countries but have been unsuccessful here. Our point still holds. There have been no attacks on the homeland since 9/11.....and as I stated before....if there were cells here then that had missed notice, why wasn't something done? This guy left in 2008 to get training...he cameback this year to strike.....obviously something changed to make them think now had a better chance to work than before. After all the guy had been here since 1991.....or maybe he wasn't part of a cell till he decided to join up and left in august of 2008 to do so......
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3143050
The point I was making is you, Darth, journey, and several others continually railed me when I said Bush's excuse for being in Iraq was to fight the 'War On Terror' was a bunch of crap. I said that taking down Saddam wasn't going to keep terrorists from infiltrating the US borders and start planning another attack. You were insistent that the war in Iraq was working, and the thought of Al Qaeda operatives still being in the US was a load of bull.
I have no problem with brute force and hitting them where they live. Problem was, that wasn't Bush's priority. It was the mystical WMD's that were never found. He also was ticked because everyone chastised his daddy becausae he went over there and spent billions of dollars and didn't finish the job with Sadaam in the first place. So he took it upon himself to 'untarnish' the Bush name and make Daddy George's legacy stand tall. Maybe if Bush would've concentrated all his 'War On Terror' efforts in Afghanistan where we should've been right after 9/11, these guys you see popping up now may have never existed.
You dont think Iraq had WMD's? The UN inspectors that were there and saw them would disagree with you. Old argument but if you want to bring it up again that's fine. There was a concern that Hussein might hand off WMD's he was known to have to terrorists. It was NEVER sold as a response to 9-11. It was sold as because of 9-11 it was too big a risk to leave
WMD in the hands of Iraq who was known to openly support terrorist groups.
 

reefraff

Active Member
There is no doubt the Iraq war siphoned off resources and attention from the terrorists, Not to say that was the intent or it was worth it but it is a valid point.
 
No offense to either bionicarm or Darth or anyone else for that matter... but don't you guys think that your little back and forth is somewhat of a moot point?
I see the United States a lot like WalMart, and the extremist Islamic people a lot like the Mom and Pop stores all across this country who are continually having their way of life destroyed by a much larger and more powerful regime that they really have zero control over in the long run.
Do you think it really matters whether it's Bush, Obama, your Mom, etc running the place?
Bottom line, is that the Islamic people have their way of life, and we have ours. Period. It all comes back to Gaza and the West Bank and the Israelis and Palestinians.
The only way things would ever really change, is if the United States stopped funding and supplying Israel with weapons and money. Will that ever happen? Not likely.
There is are too many resources and too much money in the middle east to leave it whether you like it or not.
I know, I know, but we're the "do good'ers" of the world that have a responsibility to protect and help all those who are being demonized by a horrific dictator blah, blah, blah.
If you believe that, then I still have some Enron stock you might be interested in...
And if you don't agree with me... why haven't we swooped in and saved the day in Africa?
Oh yeah, it's worthless to us...
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid
http:///forum/post/3143202
No offense to either bionicarm or Darth or anyone else for that matter... but don't you guys think that your little back and forth is somewhat of a moot point?
I see the United States a lot like WalMart, and the extremist Islamic people a lot like the Mom and Pop stores all across this country who are continually having their way of life destroyed by a much larger and more powerful regime that they really have zero control over in the long run.
Do you think it really matters whether it's Bush, Obama, your Mom, etc running the place?
Bottom line, is that the Islamic people have their way of life, and we have ours. Period. It all comes back to Gaza and the West Bank and the Israelis and Palestinians.
The only way things would ever really change, is if the United States stopped funding and supplying Israel with weapons and money. Will that ever happen? Not likely.
There is are too many resources and too much money in the middle east to leave it whether you like it or not.
I know, I know, but we're the "do good'ers" of the world that have a responsibility to protect and help all those who are being demonized by a horrific dictator blah, blah, blah.
If you believe that, then I still have some Enron stock you might be interested in...
And if you don't agree with me... why haven't we swooped in and saved the day in Africa?
Oh yeah, it's worthless to us...
Exterminating the Jews will solve everything
- Adolph Hitler
Maybe a better solution would be to have the Muslims understand that they can't export their ideology by force any better now than the Christians did during the Crusades.
 
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3143230
Exterminating the Jews will solve everything
- Adolph Hitler
Maybe a better solution would be to have the Muslims understand that they can't export their ideology by force any better now than the Christians did during the Crusades.
Yes, exterminating the Jews. Exactly what I said.
You ought to see if Bill O'Reilly has any openings, you seem to have that whole twisting others words around to fit your agenda thing down just fine.
And last I checked, the ones doing the majority of the "ideology by force" thing aren't the Muslims, now are they?
All I'm saying is in my personal opinion, I don't see why my country which is less than 2% Jewish (There were about 4 million adherents of Judaism in the U.S. as of 2001, approximately 1.4% of the US population) has to put everyone else (i.e. the military and subsequently all of this countries non-Jewish folks) in harms way to protect Israel.
Now this is the part where you will call me an anti-semite and all that, which isn't the case. The definition of an anti-semite is a prejudice against or hostility towards Jews, often rooted in hatred of their ethnic background, culture, or religion.
That's not it at all. I have nothing against the Jews, just like I have nothing against the Protestants, Catholics, or any other religious group in this country.
I just don't understand why the majority of our country's foreign policy is based on the protection and preservation of a religion that represents a very, very small faction of the general public.
And yes, I clearly understand that the roots of Christianity are based in Jerusalem. So we are not just preserving the Jewish state, but that of Christianity in general. I get that.
But I also understand that the roots of Islam are also based in Jerusalem. Yet Israel and the U.S. Policy has always been a "we run the place" and you Muslims should "feel lucky" that we allow you to come here at all.
Maybe I am being naive thinking that we would be better off if we could figure a way to let the Muslims have their space too?
And for the record, I think people who question the Holocaust, and those who want to "wipe Israel off the map" should be taken very seriously but with a grain of salt.
I think a big reason some of the people rally behind this ideology is because since the 60's, they have been shot at, bombed, killed, and pushed into a corner.
That's the place where radical thoughts and desperation breed.
I'm especially irritated tonight because I just got back from the calling hours of a high school friend of mine who was unfortunate enough to be in the back of a hum-vee that hit an roadside bomb... after nine days and 85% of his body was burned, his body couldn't hold on any longer and died.
When it hits close to home it really makes you wonder if any of this is worth it...
 

mantisman51

Active Member
Let's see, the intelligence systems implemented by Bush and Congress did their job and that shows that Bush failed? Bionic, you are so far out on the limb, you're in the next tree. What party wanted to stop our FBI and CIA and NSA from keeping tabs on these people? Oh yeah, the Democratics. The fact that some lefty appointy in the White House hasn't stopped ALL surveillance on muslims is a small miracle. Bush was an idiot on alot of things, but keeping us safe from these practitioners of the religion of peace isn't one of them.
 

mantisman51

Active Member
Clemson are serious? Have you heard what the muslims are doing in Christian parts of Malaysia, Indonesia and the Phillipines? So, who is forcefully converting people or killing them if they don't convert? Let me guess, Christians? You are not informed enough to waste any time on.
 
Originally Posted by mantisman51
http:///forum/post/3143425
Clemson are serious? Have you heard what the muslims are doing in Christian parts of Malaysia, Indonesia and the Phillipines? So, who is forcefully converting people or killing them if they don't convert? Let me guess, Christians? You are not informed enough to waste any time on.
Yes, I am well aware of what's going on in the rest of the world. I was referring specifically to his comment on what's specifically going on in the middle east...
 

oscardeuce

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3142972
Please. Let's blame it on Obama because this stuff started just as soon as he took office. These terrorist cells have been here for years. They were already in place while Bush was in office. Bush's arrogant attacks on Iraq is what spurred even American citizens to start following the Al Qeada and Muslim practices. If you think these people weren't planning these type of attacks for years, you are a fool. If Bush would've gone to Afghanistan instead of Iraq, where he was doing nothing but finishing off what his daddy failed to do, you could've nipped the bud on a majority of these Al Qaeda cells to begin with.
Has President Obama read how well the "talks" with Hitler went for Chamberlain?
I thought the war on terror was over, and we were just having an overseas contingency.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid
http:///forum/post/3143401
Yes, exterminating the Jews. Exactly what I said.
You ought to see if Bill O'Reilly has any openings, you seem to have that whole twisting others words around to fit your agenda thing down just fine.
And last I checked, the ones doing the majority of the "ideology by force" thing aren't the Muslims, now are they?
All I'm saying is in my personal opinion, I don't see why my country which is less than 2% Jewish (There were about 4 million adherents of Judaism in the U.S. as of 2001, approximately 1.4% of the US population) has to put everyone else (i.e. the military and subsequently all of this countries non-Jewish folks) in harms way to protect Israel.
Now this is the part where you will call me an anti-semite and all that, which isn't the case. The definition of an anti-semite is a prejudice against or hostility towards Jews, often rooted in hatred of their ethnic background, culture, or religion.
That's not it at all. I have nothing against the Jews, just like I have nothing against the Protestants, Catholics, or any other religious group in this country.
I just don't understand why the majority of our country's foreign policy is based on the protection and preservation of a religion that represents a very, very small faction of the general public.
And yes, I clearly understand that the roots of Christianity are based in Jerusalem. So we are not just preserving the Jewish state, but that of Christianity in general. I get that.
But I also understand that the roots of Islam are also based in Jerusalem. Yet Israel and the U.S. Policy has always been a "we run the place" and you Muslims should "feel lucky" that we allow you to come here at all.
Maybe I am being naive thinking that we would be better off if we could figure a way to let the Muslims have their space too?
And for the record, I think people who question the Holocaust, and those who want to "wipe Israel off the map" should be taken very seriously but with a grain of salt.
I think a big reason some of the people rally behind this ideology is because since the 60's, they have been shot at, bombed, killed, and pushed into a corner.
That's the place where radical thoughts and desperation breed.
I'm especially irritated tonight because I just got back from the calling hours of a high school friend of mine who was unfortunate enough to be in the back of a hum-vee that hit an roadside bomb... after nine days and 85% of his body was burned, his body couldn't hold on any longer and died.
When it hits close to home it really makes you wonder if any of this is worth it...
Maybe you should try watching Oreilly instead of believing what others say about him, one of the most straight shooting commentators out there.
I think you are WAY naive, and uninformed about how Jerusalem is ran. If it were as you say the dome of the rock would have been demolished and the temple rebuilt long ago. The Jews, Muslims and even the Christians have sites in Jerusalem. Israel is the controlling authority but the Muslims religious rights are respected.
You say because only 2% of this country is Jewish we should just throw them to the dogs? If we stop supporting Israel that is what would happen. It isn't that we are protecting a religion either. A large portion of the Jewish population are not particularly religious.
Because the Jews were singled out for extermination by not just germany but russia too the World decided to establish a homeland for them in Israel. It wasn't just the US but as usual the rest of the world or most of it sits around picking it's nose waiting for us to fix everything then complaining about our meddling once we show up.
 

flpriest

Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3143166
Did you not read what I said about the point I was making? During these debates is when I stated that yes, no attacks had been made YET. That's when all the disagreement came around that if there were terrorist cells in the US, why didn't they do something. I then made the comment that it takes time to find the right strategy and target. Well guess what. Looks like they're finally ready to find one.
I'm sorry sir, but I can't understand jiberish...
 

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3143157
I won't waste my time going back 7 or 8 months back to the time when journey was perusing this forum, waving his flag and saying how great it was to be in Iraq. Believe me, I remember the debates about this subject, and many here ranted the "no attacks have been made on American soil since Bush took over" rhetoric so many times it was nauseating.
bionicarm, I know that you have a great passion about this topic. However, I think that we would all appreciate it if you would NOT try to belittle other members, particularly a mod who is still over there working and has been unable to check in. Please also watch the insults thrown. State your oppinion all that you would like, but please be respectful.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/3144250
bionicarm, I know that you have a great passion about this topic. However, I think that we would all appreciate it if you would NOT try to belittle other members, particularly a mod who is still over there working and has been unable to check in. Please also watch the insults thrown. State your oppinion all that you would like, but please be respectful.
Really? Where were you when these barbs were going back and forth back in those days? Didn't seem to mind journey's continual insults against me because I didn't believe in his idiologies about why we should be in Iraq in the first place.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/3143429
Has President Obama read how well the "talks" with Hitler went for Chamberlain?
I thought the war on terror was over, and we were just having an overseas contingency.
So you're calling our fighting over in Afghanistan an 'overseas contingency'? You want to tell that to the family of Clemson's friend?
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3143187
You dont think Iraq had WMD's? The UN inspectors that were there and saw them would disagree with you. Old argument but if you want to bring it up again that's fine. There was a concern that Hussein might hand off WMD's he was known to have to terrorists. It was NEVER sold as a response to 9-11. It was sold as because of 9-11 it was too big a risk to leave
WMD in the hands of Iraq who was known to openly support terrorist groups.
Where are the photographs of these supposed WMD's these UN inpspectors saw? This is a new one on me. We knew Iran and North Korea had WMD's in their possession back when Bush was in office. Why didn't he go after them as well? Bush was over there to protect his daddy's legacy, plain and simple. The American people wanted justice for 9-11 more than anything else. Don't even tell me Iraq wasn't sold as a response to that event. Show me the polls that stated the majority of Americans at that time backed going into Iraq for the sole purpose of disarming Hussein of 'suspected' WMD's. I can guarantee you I wasn't one of them.
 
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