Yes, I am actually being serious...

Alright, so I keep hearing this rallying cry (especially now that the CPAC is meeting) about how the GOP and conservatives are making a big comeback politically. Fair enough.
As a liberal, I am not overly familiar with what the conservative point of view would be to turn the ship around. I saw what the last (semi) conservative regime did (2000-2008) and wasn't overly impressed.
So pretend I'm an undecided voter (which I could very well be soon), and you want to win me over with your political ideologies. Tell me Mr. Conservative, why I should go with you..
And, go!
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid
http:///forum/post/3232503
Alright, so I keep hearing this rallying cry (especially now that the CPAC is meeting) about how the GOP and conservatives are making a big comeback politically. Fair enough.
As a liberal, I am not overly familiar with what the conservative point of view would be to turn the ship around. I saw what the last (semi) conservative regime did (2000-2008) and wasn't overly impressed.
So pretend I'm an undecided voter (which I could very well be soon), and you want to win me over with your political ideologies. Tell me Mr. Conservative, why I should go with you..
And, go!
Go listen to Rush's speech last year at CPAC...
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid
http:///forum/post/3232503
Alright, so I keep hearing this rallying cry (especially now that the CPAC is meeting) about how the GOP and conservatives are making a big comeback politically. Fair enough.
As a liberal, I am not overly familiar with what the conservative point of view would be to turn the ship around. I saw what the last (semi) conservative regime did (2000-2008) and wasn't overly impressed.
So pretend I'm an undecided voter (which I could very well be soon), and you want to win me over with your political ideologies. Tell me Mr. Conservative, why I should go with you..
And, go!
Whatever.....not worth the time.
 

srfisher17

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3232506
Go listen to Rush's speech last year at CPAC...
Great speech. I think most fair-minded liberals would move rightward just listening to Rush for a few weeks. Its takes at least a week for new Rush listeners to get his humor and learn what is real and what is part of his act.
First, read as many of Ronald Reagan's speeches as you can; then read the U.S. Constitution.
...Or look at how Socialism is working in Europe.
.... Or just give an honest answer to the question that is quickly becoming a punch line for everyone: "How's all that hopey-changey stuff working out for ya?
".....Or read Mark Levin's book, Liberty and Tyranny".
....Or, in one line, "The fate of this great country is in the hands of Obama, Biden, Reid, and Pelosi." If that doesn't do it, nothing will.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Job creation alone should do it for you.
The recent push for "green" jobs is going to kill this economy and keep unemployment at double digit levels. The current green job package is modelled after Spain's green job package.
so lets see what we have to look forward to for our economy and job future under the present ideas presented by democrats.
http://www.juandemariana.org/pdf/090...-renewable.pdf
“Spain’s experience (cited by President Obama as a model) reveals with high confidence, by two different methods, that the U.S. should expect a loss of at least 2.2 jobs on average, or about 9 jobs lost for every 4 created, to which we have to add those jobs that non-subsidized investments with the same resources would have created,”
This alone should make anyone want to jump ship. Because basically, this green job push will prolong the high unemployment and thus cause a double or triple dip recession...since the green job money comes out periodically over the next 3-4 years.
But who needs jobs when religion is out of the white house, you have roe V wade intact, climate change is getting addressed, and terrorists are no longer being "tortured".
 
How do you all feel about this Ron Paul character? I just spent about 45 minutes looking over he and his thoughts and I have to say, I am honestly intrigued.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by srfisher17
http:///forum/post/3232677
Great speech. I think most fair-minded liberals would move rightward just listening to Rush for a few weeks. Its takes at least a week for new Rush listeners to get his humor and learn what is real and what is part of his act.
First, read as many of Ronald Reagan's speeches as you can; then read the U.S. Constitution.
...Or look at how Socialism is working in Europe.
.... Or just give an honest answer to the question that is quickly becoming a punch line for everyone: "How's all that hopey-changey stuff working out for ya?
".....Or read Mark Levin's book, Liberty and Tyranny".
....Or, in one line, "The fate of this great country is in the hands of Obama, Biden, Reid, and Pelosi." If that doesn't do it, nothing will.
The is what's wrong with the conservative movement. Clemson simply asked what would the opposition to Obama, whether it be the Republicans or these Tea Baggers, offer to change whatever Obama has screwed up. The best you can do is sit here and rehash the same boring Constitutionalist mantra, and bashing Obama about what you 'think' he is doing wrong. This attitude is what got Obama elected in 2008. I don't want name calling or conspiracy theories, I want solutions. I'm actually hoping the Republicans regain the House and Senate in November. Then if it continues with what you feel is the 'same ole, same ole', I will ask, "So where's the magical 'change' the Republicans said would happen now?" If you regain the majority, then you can't use Obama as your crux any longer.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
I like a lot of his ideas, but I would not say that he follows the conservative platforms. He is very much against all the wars we've gotten in to. He is more a libertarian.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/3232800
I like a lot of his ideas, but I would not say that he follows the conservative platforms. He is very much against all the wars we've gotten in to. He is more a libertarian.
Paul is a member of the Libertarian party too if I am not mistaken. He simply runs a Republican because that is the only way he can get elected.
 

sickboy

Active Member
Originally Posted by srfisher17
http:///forum/post/3232677
Great speech. I think most fair-minded liberals would move rightward just listening to Rush for a few weeks. Its takes at least a week for new Rush listeners to get his humor and learn what is real and what is part of his act.
I disagree. I, as a dem but not really "liberal" (and despite what rush say, there is a difference), have been listening to Rush fairly normally for the last year, at least twice a week. It has not made me "move rightward", in fact it has the opposite effect. I do agree with the guy about 65% of the time, but out of the 35% I disagree with him, about half is normal disagreement but the other half I think he is the most mentally challenged person to have a radio show.
 

reefraff

Active Member
As for the original question
First step is to remember that GW Bush did not push a conservative agenda outside the tax cuts and a few social issues. What went on during his presidency could hardly be called a conservative policy regarding fiscal issues.
Right now one of the most pressing issues facing the country is the budget deficit. There can be no doubt Obama and the Democrats have taken spending to a whole new level. We should be seeking a change of leadership just for that alone.
Cutting runaway government spending still isn't going to save enough to dig us out of the hole we are in. If you are ever in a mood for some depressing reading
http://www.concordcoalition.org/
They have been pushing for fiscal sanity in a bipartisan manner for years.
Anyway we need to increase revenue as well. Increasing taxes in tough times won't do that. Even most sane liberal minded economists agree with that for the most part. So what is the other way to increase government revenues? Economic growth. The government has already shown it can't spur growth by spending.
So is there any way the government create jobs and at the same time increase revenues aside from income taxes? One thing the Republicans pushed and the Democrats have put the brakes on since regaining Congress in 07 is natural resource development. If they open up onshore and off shore oil drilling not only do we create jobs, the government also gets leasing fees and royalty payments. Another would be to look at cutting some unnecessary red tape and foolish regulations and laws.
There is a project in Arizona for a "green" refinery that has spent millions of dollars and the better part of a decade and hasn't turned a shovel full of dirt yet do to regulations and environmental wackos who can shut down a project with lawsuits to the point it is no longer viable to move forward. I saw this several times in Montana with salvage logging projects. After a fire the burnt trees have a short time when they are still usable. The environmental groups use a deliberate tactic of tying up the projects with lawsuits long enough for the logs to become unusable. These are just two examples of the environmental groups the Democrat party cater to hurting sustainable economic activity we desperately could use right now.
 
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/3232800
I like a lot of his ideas, but I would not say that he follows the conservative platforms. He is very much against all the wars we've gotten in to. He is more a libertarian.
Well from an article I just read, he apparently won the Presidential straw poll at the CPAC... So he can't be too far off base with the conservatives...
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid
http:///forum/post/3232842
Well from an article I just read, he apparently won the Presidential straw poll at the CPAC... So he can't be too far off base with the conservatives...
The problem is with what the conservatives have to offer in the way of a great candidate. There are no shinning stars who could have come close to standing up to Obama in the attraction and charisma department. That's not to say that won't change in the next election, but I don't really see any up and coming superstars for the Reps. Yes, Sara Palin has that Obama-ish appeal for conservatives, but she doesn't have much in the way of know-how or substance, if you ask me.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3232823
As for the original question
First step is to remember that GW Bush did not push a conservative agenda outside the tax cuts and a few social issues. What went on during his presidency could hardly be called a conservative policy regarding fiscal issues.
Right now one of the most pressing issues facing the country is the budget deficit. There can be no doubt Obama and the Democrats have taken spending to a whole new level. We should be seeking a change of leadership just for that alone.
Cutting runaway government spending still isn't going to save enough to dig us out of the hole we are in. If you are ever in a mood for some depressing reading
http://www.concordcoalition.org/
They have been pushing for fiscal sanity in a bipartisan manner for years.
Anyway we need to increase revenue as well. Increasing taxes in tough times won't do that. Even most sane liberal minded economists agree with that for the most part. So what is the other way to increase government revenues? Economic growth. The government has already shown it can't spur growth by spending.
So is there any way the government create jobs and at the same time increase revenues aside from income taxes? One thing the Republicans pushed and the Democrats have put the brakes on since regaining Congress in 07 is natural resource development. If they open up onshore and off shore oil drilling not only do we create jobs, the government also gets leasing fees and royalty payments. Another would be to look at cutting some unnecessary red tape and foolish regulations and laws.
There is a project in Arizona for a "green" refinery that has spent millions of dollars and the better part of a decade and hasn't turned a shovel full of dirt yet do to regulations and environmental wackos who can shut down a project with lawsuits to the point it is no longer viable to move forward. I saw this several times in Montana with salvage logging projects. After a fire the burnt trees have a short time when they are still usable. The environmental groups use a deliberate tactic of tying up the projects with lawsuits long enough for the logs to become unusable. These are just two examples of the environmental groups the Democrat party cater to hurting sustainable economic activity we desperately could use right now.
I think Obama used the 'spending theory' to turn the economy because he knew he would get trashed if he went the tax increase route. You may disagree with this strategy, but it has turned the economy around somewhat. I've also gone with the philosophy that you have to spend money to make money. You just have to hope that the money you spend short term will show larger profits in the long run. Right now, it appears the conservatives are impatient, and aren't willing to see if Obama's spending strategy will come out profitable in the long run.
Oil reserves in the American territories are our 'ace in the hole'. We've always been dependent on foreign oil because it's always been there. The question of the day is, how much longer will it last? Based on the mass oil usage in today's world, is there enough oil deposited underneath the Middle East to maintain this consumption for the next 50 years, 100 years? What happens when the pumps run dry? As dependent as the US is to oil, when that happens, we are hosed. So the Feds will keep our reserved plugged, saving them for that day. Is this the wrong thing to do? Like I said, depends on how much longer the spigot remains on in the Middle east.
 

sickboy

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3232857
Oil reserves in the American territories are our 'ace in the hole'.
Exactly! The conservatives on one hand want to tap our oil supply and on the other hand want complete national security. Many have said we have reached peak oil already, so when people get desperate there will be a war over resources. With our reserves untapped, we are ensured to come out on top, either militarily or economically, but it means riding out the high oil prices temporarily.
 

srfisher17

Active Member
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid
http:///forum/post/3232842
Well from an article I just read, he apparently won the Presidential straw poll at the CPAC... So he can't be too far off base with the conservatives...
CPAC is a very small group and its straw polls aren't really predictors of the conservative base as a whole, IMO. I'm not a Libertarian, but one thing I really like about Ron Paul is the way he sticks to the Republican Party and knows how disastrous a conservative third party would be right now.
 

srfisher17

Active Member
Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/3232812
I disagree. I, as a dem but not really "liberal" (and despite what rush say, there is a difference), have been listening to Rush fairly normally for the last year, at least twice a week. It has not made me "move rightward", in fact it has the opposite effect. I do agree with the guy about 65% of the time, but out of the 35% I disagree with him, about half is normal disagreement but the other half I think he is the most mentally challenged person to have a radio show.
.......but he has you listening twice a week!
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3232857
I think Obama used the 'spending theory' to turn the economy because he knew he would get trashed if he went the tax increase route. You may disagree with this strategy, but it has turned the economy around somewhat. I've also gone with the philosophy that you have to spend money to make money. You just have to hope that the money you spend short term will show larger profits in the long run. Right now, it appears the conservatives are impatient, and aren't willing to see if Obama's spending strategy will come out profitable in the long run.
Oil reserves in the American territories are our 'ace in the hole'. We've always been dependent on foreign oil because it's always been there. The question of the day is, how much longer will it last? Based on the mass oil usage in today's world, is there enough oil deposited underneath the Middle East to maintain this consumption for the next 50 years, 100 years? What happens when the pumps run dry? As dependent as the US is to oil, when that happens, we are hosed. So the Feds will keep our reserved plugged, saving them for that day. Is this the wrong thing to do? Like I said, depends on how much longer the spigot remains on in the Middle east.
It takes money to make money, money which the Federal government ain't got.
The Obamites keep talking about the huge middle class tax cut. Really? Care to show me which tax rate they cut? Never happened. They gave out a one time tax credit which was not a bad idea for a snap shot in time but all it really did was spur a little consumer spending for a month or two when they sent out the checks but a lot of that money went to catching up bills and into savings accounts. So they may have delayed job losses but over the long haul didn't do much. Problem is that was probably the most effective thing they did so far.
There is no evidence to suggest the spending has done anything but save state government jobs at this point, that isn't going to turn the economy. If there had been much in the way of jobs created they wouldn't have felt the need to put out all the bogus jobs claims. It's private sector jobs that will turn the economy around and there just wasn't enough emphasis on that in the spenduless bill to have a significant impact there. Why is now even the Democrats are getting behind a FICA tax holiday? They have finally conceded the fact that the best way to stimulate the economy is putting more money in the hands of consumers and businesses as fast as possible and over a sustained period of time.
As far as our "Ace in the hole" I can't imagine a better time to play it. Look, there are a lot of alternatives to fossil fuels that are going to pick up momentum over the next decade. We are the Saudi Arabia of shale. Instead of getting in bed with the extreme environmental movement and opposing the development why not hop in bed with the industry and help develop it responsibly. SASOL is working on a coal gasification system in Australia that could also work on shale where it is processed in the ground. The fuel produced burns cleaner and we wont trash the landscape to produce it. Our government should be encouraging the US oil companies to also start working in that area. The government can also start converting over their vehicles to run on natural gas which we have a whole lot of. Not only would that reduce crude use, it would expand that infrastructure where it would become more practical for consumers to do the same.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by srfisher17
http:///forum/post/3233113
CPAC is a very small group and its straw polls aren't really predictors of the conservative base as a whole, IMO. I'm not a Libertarian, but one thing I really like about Ron Paul is the way he sticks to the Republican Party and knows how disastrous a conservative third party would be right now.
Ron Paul has the same type of attitude as Palin. If politicians are screwing up you call them on it even if it's your own party.
Paul would be hard for the Democrats to beat. He would draw support from the far left because of his strong anti- war position and from the right for his small government positions. Now would the powers that be in the Republican party allow a rebel to win the nomination? I doubt it.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid
http:///forum/post/3232792
How do you all feel about this Ron Paul character? I just spent about 45 minutes looking over he and his thoughts and I have to say, I am honestly intrigued.
I think he could get clinton to vote for him. After all Ron Paul has seen way more

[hr]
girls than Clinton has... (he was a gyno.) I actually met him once, his grand daughter married someone at work. He's a really nice genuine guy.
His anti-war views are stemmed from the fact that we didn't declare war as perscribed in the constitution. Not nessesarily because he's anti war. I just don't think this gold standard movement is practical... I"m not that libertarian...
 
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