You want the truth? (oil related topic)

[happyhourh]

the oil we export is of a different grade than that made for gasoline. Thats probably why we export so much.
On a sidenote....On my family farm, we have 3 wells. They were turned off in 1998 and they just turned 1 back on last month. More is going on than we know...

 

[jovial]

Anyone look at the kinds of profits the oil companies make? the cost of gasoline goes much further than supply and demand. The more they sell, the wealthier they become. These kind of people can never have enough power or money. The more they get the more they want and until the masses understand this they will always be controlled by big oil. Until people begin to act and stop complaining things will never change.
There are a number of things that can be done at home that would send a clear message. Dont know how much higher it needs to go before the majority starts to realize this, maybe at 6 or 7 dollars a gallon folks will shift to more practical means, like smaller cars or mass transit. I converted an old Toyota truck to ethanol, it's not a shiny new Hummer but at about 40 cents a gallon who cares, it still gets me around. Even if one can afford the costs of fuel, consider the damage these vehicles do. After living in Japan I learned a great deal about efficiency and how people can work together to achieve more practical and efficient means of transit. Shouldnt we be talking about ways to save $ instead of complaining about something we have no control over.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Jovial
Anyone look at the kinds of profits the oil companies make? the cost of gasoline goes much further than supply and demand. The more they sell, the wealthier they become. These kind of people can never have enough power or money. The more they get the more they want and until the masses understand this they will always be controlled by big oil. Until people begin to act and stop complaining things will never change.
There are a number of things that can be done at home that would send a clear message. Dont know how much higher it needs to go before the majority starts to realize this, maybe at 6 or 7 dollars a gallon folks will shift to more practical means, like smaller cars or mass transit. I converted an old Toyota truck to ethanol, it's not a shiny new Hummer but at about 40 cents a gallon who cares, it still gets me around. Even if one can afford the costs of fuel, consider the damage these vehicles do. After living in Japan I learned a great deal about efficiency and how people can work together to achieve more practical and efficient means of transit. Shouldnt we be talking about ways to save $ instead of complaining about something we have no control over.
Damage? Not nearly as much as say a volcano. At least we are feeding the trees.
Who is to say that this is the perfect environment?
What about the ice age? you know a while back there was glaciers in texas.
You know also in my back yard in dfw we would find fossils of fish, and inverts?
What in the world would cause the world to heat up so much that the glaciers in texas would melt and later flood an texas.
That is some global warming and cooling. And there wasn't anyone producing any CO2.
But back to oil. It is traded on the free market. It has really low elasticity. When you have a product that is like that. You sell as much as you can. Even producers in OPEC are producing more than they have agreed to produce. It isn't a giant conspiracy. There is a group of people doing there best to limit supply and doing a good job based on quazi-science. Preaching iit like a religion. You have a bunch of people screaming "oh no the middle east isn't stable" You have countries with booming industrial sectors pushing up demand for petrolium based products like gas, oil, Plastics.
So what happens when you have downward pressure on producing a good, then you have upward pressure of demand. Price goes way up. And that is what has happened. Oil companies are seeing record profits because their good is in record demand. Exxon Mobil only makes about 10 cents on a gallon of gas. While what who politicians with their fingers in the cookie jar are making 4 times that much. At least in texas.

 

[nvmycj]

All this talk about supply and demand is hog-wash. They, the oil companies, have all the supply (oil) that they want. The demand hasn't increased at all.
I lived in Florida the year we got hit by five hurricanes. The oil companies were claiming low supply, because there was too much of a demand....... blah, blah, blah,...... That year ALL the oil companies made RECORD profits. As did the politicians who support them.
It's our own fault that we decide to pay these prices. I see single people driving Suburbans,.....for what? If you have a family of 5-6, sure I can see your point. We also choose to drive these powerfully, HUGE V-8, and sometimes V-10, SUV's. We choose to buy these cool looking, gas guzzling, H-3's. We'd rather not drive a nice, gas saving 4-cylinder Camry or Accord, because they're just not cool enough.
The everyday joe, you and me, has the final control of gas prices. We purchase the vehicles and are responsible for filling them up.
This is what I see as happening, IMO.

 

[watson4]

Originally Posted by Jovial
Even if one can afford the costs of fuel, consider the damage these vehicles do.
This is a common misknowmer...There are many Proven studies that say nature causes just as much, if not MORE pollution than humans could ever dream of..
On a side note, as someone in the Energy fields everyday, there is truth to supply and demand...The demand is not going up, but during the summer when so many different blends HAVE to be made as opposed to winter months, the supply does fall significantly..Also, 3/4 of those record profits you see are pumped straight back into the fields themselves, in updating refineries, and bonusing employees..

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by NVMYCJ
All this talk about supply and demand is hog-wash. They, the oil companies, have all the supply (oil) that they want.
It's our own fault that we decide to pay these prices.
The everyday joe, you and me, has the final control of gas prices. We purchase the vehicles and are responsible for filling them up.
This is what I see as happening, IMO.
So supply and demand is hogwash, but we can control gas prices by lowering demand for the product...

 

[watson4]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
, but we can control gas prices by lowering demand for the product...

Huge Misconception..What happens if you dont get gas next Tuesday...you need more on Wednesday...

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Watson4
Huge Misconception..What happens if you dont get gas next Tuesday...you need more on Wednesday...
I agree, I'm just surmising what the person I quoted said. He says supply and demand is hog wash, but what he proposes to reduce price, is essentially reducing demand, lowering cost. Of course what is proposed is not currently viable or really even technologically possible. Cause if it was that person would be a gazillionare.
Oh demand for oil isn't up?
The total world consumption of crude oil in 1996 was 71.7 million barrels per day (there are 42 US gallons in a barrel, or 159 litres). OPEC estimates that total world oil consumption could reach around 100 million barrels per day by the year 2020.
(From OPEC Annual Statistical Bulletin: 1996, OWEM Scenarios Report: 1998.)
• The Department of Energy predicts world demand will reach 119 million b.p.d. in 2025, with huge increases in China, India, and other developing nations.
Demand for oil is increasing. 72 million barrels of oil in 96 to increasing around 66% to 120 million barrels of oil. That is what I would call an increase of demand.

 

[jovial]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
Damage? Not nearly as much as say a volcano. At least we are feeding the trees.
Who is to say that this is the perfect environment?
What about the ice age? you know a while back there was glaciers in texas.
You know also in my back yard in dfw we would find fossils of fish, and inverts?
What in the world would cause the world to heat up so much that the glaciers in texas would melt and later flood an texas.
That is some global warming and cooling. And there wasn't anyone producing any CO2.
But back to oil. It is traded on the free market. It has really low elasticity. When you have a product that is like that. You sell as much as you can. Even producers in OPEC are producing more than they have agreed to produce. It isn't a giant conspiracy. There is a group of people doing there best to limit supply and doing a good job based on quazi-science. Preaching iit like a religion. You have a bunch of people screaming "oh no the middle east isn't stable" You have countries with booming industrial sectors pushing up demand for petrolium based products like gas, oil, Plastics.
So what happens when you have downward pressure on producing a good, then you have upward pressure of demand. Price goes way up. And that is what has happened. Oil companies are seeing record profits because their good is in record demand. Exxon Mobil only makes about 10 cents on a gallon of gas. While what who politicians with their fingers in the cookie jar are making 4 times that much. At least in texas.
Factor in the # of gas guzzlers we drive and it becomes clear how much damage they cause both economically and environmentally, we have no control over volcanos but we do have control over how much money we give to the oil companies and how much CO2 we generate by automobiles.
Oil companies are seeing record profits because they know people are dependant on their product and they are taking advantage of this through price gouging.
Remember the Laffer curve? until it becomes so prohibitively expensive people will continue to pay these exorbant gasoline prices and complain all the way to the gas station. When a gallon of gasoline is more than a gallon of milk difficult choices have to be made and people need to act instead of complaining. It no longer becomes a matter of affordability but one of practicality and efficiency. So what if you can afford 5 bucks a gallon, does this make it right?
It is true that many glaciers are growing, it's also a fact that the earth is warming, just look at the before and after photos of the poles. Consider China and India also. Even if you put the undeniable environmental reasons aside, the economic reasons for reducing our foreign oil consumption are significantly worthwhile.

 

[jovial]

Originally Posted by Watson4
This is a common misknowmer...There are many Proven studies that say nature causes just as much, if not MORE pollution than humans could ever dream of..
On a side note, as someone in the Energy fields everyday, there is truth to supply and demand...The demand is not going up, but during the summer when so many different blends HAVE to be made as opposed to winter months, the supply does fall significantly..Also, 3/4 of those record profits you see are pumped straight back into the fields themselves, in updating refineries, and bonusing employees..
We dont have any control over nature. In terms of efficiency, look at it this way, compair the NOX and CO2 emmissions from a V10 or V8 to a 4cyl or even an electric motor.
China and India are going through and Industrial revoloution the same way we did. These countries are consuming more oil than ever before with little to no smog control. I may be wrong but I believe there has been no new refineries built in the US since Carters messed up administration. This means that even if we start driving 4 bangers around we still have to suffer the damage that the other countries are doing unless we develop a better mousetrap. Innovation is the answer, not trying to create more of an outdated technology. The internal combustion engine is very inefficient and loses much of its energy through friction and heat(especially when trying to push a 4K lb Hummer down the road). We need to be developing efficient methods of transportation and selling it to other countries, this would turn the tables and put us back in the lead.
In a very basic sense. About a year ago I converted my old Toyota truck to ethanol. I no longer have a demand for gasoline and at $3.00 a gallon. the gas station no longer has to supply me. Supply and demand, I dont demand it they dont supply it.

 

[seasalt101]

Originally Posted by Jovial
Factor in the # of gas guzzlers we drive and it becomes clear how much damage they cause both economically and environmentally, we have no control over volcanos but we do have control over how much money we give to the oil companies and how much CO2 we generate by automobiles.
Oil companies are seeing record profits because they know people are dependant on their product and they are taking advantage of this through price gouging.
Remember the Laffer curve? until it becomes so prohibitively expensive people will continue to pay these exorbant gasoline prices and complain all the way to the gas station. When a gallon of gasoline is more than a gallon of milk difficult choices have to be made and people need to act instead of complaining. It no longer becomes a matter of affordability but one of practicality and efficiency. So what if you can afford 5 bucks a gallon, does this make it right?
It is true that many glaciers are growing, it's also a fact that the earth is warming, just look at the before and after photos of the poles. Consider China and India also. Even if you put the undeniable environmental reasons aside, the economic reasons for reducing our foreign oil consumption are significantly worthwhile.
to answer the global warming thing the date is 6-17 07 i live in west texas the temperature here this year has not crossed a 100 degrees yet here normally this happens by early march maybe there are just too many people on the planet consuming air and drinking water the planet is overpopulated i think that is all it is...tobin

 

[jovial]

We are definitely overpopulated.

 

[seasalt101]

Originally Posted by Jovial
We are definitely overpopulated.
so do you think my simple theory has any legs to it?...tobin

 

[jovial]

You are absoloutely correct! Ive been saying the same thing for years, our natural resources can only sustain so much. This is the primary reason nations go to war, i.e Japan WW2. The one thing all poor nations have in common is over population. Too many people for the ammount of resources availible.
tobin, I dont know why more folks dont do some weekend garage experiments on an old vehicle like I did. If anything its a good project to work on with your kids. Most of us like to tinker and it is so easy to make bio-diesel or ethanol or convert a car to electric power for short trips around town. I started by messing around with the lawn mower.

Instead we would rather make the rich richer and destroy our planet, I dont get it and Im a conservative.

 

[seasalt101]

Originally Posted by Jovial
You are absoloutely correct! Ive been saying the same thing for years, our natural resources can only sustain so much. This is the primary reason nations go to war, i.e Japan WW2. The one thing all poor nations have in common is over population. Too many people for the ammount of resources availible.
tobin, I dont know why more folks dont do some weekend garage experiments on an old vehicle like I did. If anything its a good project to work on with your kids. Most of us like to tinker and it is so easy to make bio-diesel or ethanol or convert a car to electric power for short trips around town. I started by messing around with the lawn mower.

my lawnmower is broke thanks. but on the other hand this supports my nuke iran thing, and it's been a few years now but last car i was fixin up was a 69 roadrunner i miss that car when the health comes back i'm going to get the 57 chevy that i always wanted and fix that up frame up of course...tobin

 

[jovial]

Whats it got in it a 383 or 440? Mopars were always hard to beat.

 

[seasalt101]

383 i don't have it anymore it's a sad political story basically i was restoring the car not a frame up on this i was done with the motor and redoing the brakes when i was not working on it i would place a tarp over it well this is in cali when all this happened(why i am in texas now) i was driving my ex gf's mustang (79, nothing special) which had a crack in the window illegal in cali will get you pulled over well i lived in a rough part of town so i carried a couple of .45 rugers loaded and under the seat legal weapons but concealed by cali standards, the officer asked if i had any drugs or weapons which i told him i have 2 45's under the seat skim over the next few details 30 day mandatory sentence, well there was some kinda beautification law while in jail they towed and impounded my roadrunner bad part on me was i had just restored the black and yellow liscense plate and the title was in the glovebox no company would admit that they had it this was sacramento a large city i could not find that car anywhere so that was that i was pushing 550 honest hp out of it no nitro no supercharger all intake cam and heads and headers
that is my last project till i get healthy again...tobin

 

[jovial]

tobin, I dont want to stray too far from the topic, but hope you get heathy soon, whats wrong with you anyhow?

 

[seasalt101]

man i thought everyone on this board knew i just got through fighting back to back doses of cancer just now getting my hair back both times was non-hodgkins lymphoma bad paqrt for me was in between the cases i grew out my hair bought a new comb then was diagnosed with it again, everything is pretty good now just numbness in my lower legs and hands i'm gettin better no worries...tobin

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by seasalt101
383 i don't have it anymore it's a sad political story basically i was restoring the car not a frame up on this i was done with the motor and redoing the brakes when i was not working on it i would place a tarp over it well this is in cali when all this happened(why i am in texas now) i was driving my ex gf's mustang (79, nothing special) which had a crack in the window illegal in cali will get you pulled over well i lived in a rough part of town so i carried a couple of .45 rugers loaded and under the seat legal weapons but concealed by cali standards, the officer asked if i had any drugs or weapons which i told him i have 2 45's under the seat skim over the next few details 30 day mandatory sentence, well there was some kinda beautification law while in jail they towed and impounded my roadrunner bad part on me was i had just restored the black and yellow liscense plate and the title was in the glovebox no company would admit that they had it this was sacramento a large city i could not find that car anywhere so that was that i was pushing 550 honest hp out of it no nitro no supercharger all intake cam and heads and headers
that is my last project till i get healthy again...tobin
Wow, that really sucks, all because they were violating your right as an american to carry a weapon. Meatheads, that is why I'll never live in cali.