Your Opinion Please !!

[colorado_reef]

everything in my refug is doing great so far.
I have three clams 2 mangroves 20# rock and alot of copapods-- I am very happy so far!!

 

[fishfood]

I guess i was looking for specifics on the mangroves. I wanted to try one in a show tank. I was talking with fshhub about this a while back and we looked some stuff up on the net about them. just wanted to try something different.

 

[fshhub]

just for the record, a store with 3 employees(who does give a crap, but the case is the same), plus the managers as owner, how does that fit?
i have worked for bigger stores, with as many as 20 employees and chains with over 500 in the same area, but the fact has not changed, adn someone almost said it, if you buy a product that is guarenteed, it is guarenteed, and the fact is it is guarenteed, but NOT BY THE RETAILER, BUT THE MANUFACTURER
40$ a month? i have paid more than that for tv's that did not work for more than 5 months, that is over 100$ but you know what, they were fixed by the OBLIGATED party, not the seller
adn blonde naso, 20 yrs ago things were much different, than today, too many people trying to scam, so retailers an manufacturers have to protect themselves
replacements after a week or 2 are a different story too, many will take them back b/c the manufacturere acts diffeerently
and car dealers will NOT give you a free new car, or a loaner of a new car, unless, the car is under 30 days old(and not wanted, and this is only through GM) or a LEMON OR A RECALL OR SOME CASE SIMILAR, which means it will be replaced after 3 times for the same problem, which cannot be fixed adequately, if it can be repaired, they will do this first, TRUST ME HERE, I SOLD CARS TOO(for ford as well), and they gave you a return on car they can resell at almost full value(used 4x4s, minus the money that they made off you the first time, they are making out, trust me here) THEY DID MAKE THEIR MONEY, besides ford may have had a problem with them, they have in the past, btw i drive an isuzu rodeo, b'c the explorers are not as good as many think( I DROVE MORE EXPLORERS THAN YOU MAY HAVE EVEN SEEN ON THE ROAD)
and going to another lfs, try that, take back something after 3 months and see what happens, same thing, for almost all i am sure
if you want to knwo what business i am in, i t is now computers, has been stereos, it has been cars, it has been pools and spas, it has been water conditioning equipment, and it has been insurance, it has also been food and groceries, the same still applies today(not 15 or 20 yrs ago, when consumers were different), now remember i a m totally non lfs, many here have heard my posts on lfs's, and i do not like most, i am also a business student, studying all this crap(as you put it)
the moral thing to do is to accept that they are NOT responsible for what they sell, and put the blame on the manufacturer, who has set their policies like this, b/c of immoral and scamming consumers(not you or me, but others who have done so), many manufacturers, will not accept these claims, or honor them, but fix or repair, and if it could be your fault, they WILL charge you or the lfs who sends it back, so then they loose money on hte repair and on hte sale b/c you got the new one(not them)
and it is illegal to tell everyone of a problem that you do NOT have with them to try and disrupt their business, it is even listed in our constitution(slander is hard to prove, but libel is not so hard, ask your room mates), which i am VERY proud of, if you do not believe me, call your newspaper and ask them to print the story, bet they don't why, they would face a lawsuit, because it is illegal, if it were something they did and such, then the paper would investigate, BEFORE printing, why?? b/c it is not as hard to press as you may think
and to spread word as such, with bias and with intent to harm a business that has done no wrong(legally) is SLANDER
and fyi, for all, cost is no longer relevant to the price of any product, it used ot be so, but now with the internet and MO costs and such are so close to many products end price it is pathetic, so the mark up is not what you may expect on many products, so a 300$ pump may only have a 304 mark up, this is the case in many industries now days(not saying this is the case with the pump, but it could be)
and broomer one point here being different, when dealing with businesses, they expect this, and if you can't offer it, they will not even stop at your busines, but go elsewhere with much more money, and in indusrty it is all handled much differently, b/c this, if not, you would nver see the contrat, business and industry is a lot different than retail, even in buying, i like you and respect you, and i agree customer service should be different, buthe fact is, now days with sneaky consumers, and corporate boards, this has changed greatly,and we as consumers need ot know this, now days, it is no t the customer is always right, but buyer beware, b/c the manufacturer adn retailers have been getting the screwing more so, look at the numbers of wrongful suits, charges, adn scams going around, we even had a member try to post a scam on how to rip off lfs's the other day, this does affect how business is handled today vs yesteryear
i do agree wiht anthem, it would be nice(and if i could, i would too as an owner, but it is not always feasable, and to say it costs customers is wrong too, both ways it costs money, whether it one unhappy and not so right consumer, or much money b/c of taking care of so many consumers that the place go bankrupt for loss of money in the back side of the equation,
and i think i would like it too,and also think that bc i have done you no wrong, you should treat me equally but, this is not the case, they should treat all the SAME you with your 100's, jon doe with his 10s of dollars, and others with their 100,000s of $, all should be equal, so to say i am special b/c i spent this, is ot say that you expect less treatment than the next guy who spent nearly 100,000$, so this is not a fair arguement at all(legal or otherwise,it would not be fair)

 

[fshhub]

BTW, i spout off, i threaten to go elsewhere and i also leave angry at times
just like the rest of you, i think i should be treated the way i expect to be treated, but i alos realize, it is not the way it is, and it is not always the responsibility of the stores, through the use of the head that was place on my shoulders years ago, we have to be reasonable too, i also grad highly on customer satisfaction, whenver i make my business, but them not honoring someone elses problem is not my opinion of poor service, especially if they offer to help in any way(even a phone number is help)
in their shoes, you would not expect me to come in and hold it against youb/c of something you did not do, but the pump did, which would possibly cost you alot of money, eventually leading to closing your doors, b/c too many people get everything they want out of you, woud you??

 

[broomer5]

Ed,
The 240 gallon tank scenerio is an excellent one. IMO defects and unsatisfied customers are not black and white. It's the gray area, and scale of the situation at hand that takes some creative intervention by the seller, working on behalf of his customer.
If someone buys a 240 gallon tank such as this, and it carries a warranty - say 1 year - free of manufacture defects - and it develops a leak at a bulkhead fitting, and it's emptied and hauled back to the lfs. As the lfs owner, the very first thing I would do would be to apologize for it, even though I did not manufacture the tank or the bulkhead fitting, and ask the customer;
"Where are you keeping your fish, corals and how has this unfortunate situation inconvenienced you" What has this done to you Mr. Customer.
Obviously it has put him out, he's already upset, probably pissed off about having to mess with it in the first place, and want's someone to help him. I'd ask myself - what would I expect someone to do about something like this if it happened to me.
As the lfs guy, I'd get on the horn with Oceanic right then and there and describe the situation in detail to them - as customer waits in my store. I'd even let the customer listen in on the conversation and let Oceanic know we had a 3-way call going on. The problem may be with the mating surfaces of the tank/bulkhead, or a defective or loose fitting. Determine the problem and make a decision.
If the tank did not leak for over several months, most likely it's a problem with the fitting not the tank. But even if it was a problem with the tank - I would attempt to resolve the problem right then and there because the customer is entitled to that kind of service.
Would I allow him to walk off with the new tank - most likely no. Is he entitled to walk off with a new tank - my opinion here is no. Is he entitled to some form of compensation for the mess he's in - my answer is yes.
Whatever the manufacturer recommends on repair/returns would be my best possible recourse at that time. I would offer the customer this. If he want's to pay me for the new tank on the floor - he can have it at cost.
We return the leaking one. If it's found to be defective, and the manufacturer is willing to stand behind the warranty - he will have a choice. Does he want the money back he paid for the replacement, or does he want 2 tanks. His choice. If it's just a bad bulkhead - again his choice, and a costly one at that.
Point being - each case must be looked at individually. I don't believe in "giving" away things for free. But I do believe in trying to get a guy out of a jam, especially if he purchased equipment from me. But he's not entitled to a new tank. He's entitled to have the person he trusted with his original purchase offer him choices to make. Ultimately it's his choice on how he would like to proceed.
Am I contradicting myself - possibly. Is there a rule or guideline that says " All defective or potentially defective equipment will be handled one and only one way" ?
My answer is no - not at the lfs level. This guy handles more than one product line and must deal with multiple manufacturers and distributors - each of them having their own repair/return policies.
But in the end - if you give the customer a choice, and he agrees to any or all outcomes of making that choice - that in my opinion is about the best a guy could do.
I'd still have given Colorado_Reef a new pump though. A potentially defective pump and a new 240 gallon tank are two entirerly different things. Would I go out of business doing this everyday - possibly. Would I as the lfs guy continue to carry products that seemed to have an unusually high premature mortality rate - probably not.
Would I expect Colorado_Reef to continue to shop at my store and tell his buddies and friends that he was treated well, and that he liked my service - yeah I think so.
Would I write off a few things to the cost of doing business- you bet.
But I can assure you the benefits of repeat business and word of mouth advertising would far out weigh the cost of this one pump.

 

[fshhub]

now, that is the most reasonable suggestion yet, call the manufacturer and then go from there, and try to help out, not unreasonable, and is definitely geared towards taking care of them, in the best way you possible,
that in itself whould at least appear as trying to help, and probably would be a help, especially if it is a simple part, which could be overnited to you and fixed in hours, that would at least be an attempt to help, which is what i would expect, at least an attempt
now on another note, although things may not have appeared that way, i have also fixed things for customers(if possible, and without charging), so if it weere say in impeller or something, i would do the work for them, wihtout being asked often, especially if it gets the situation resolved and teh customer taken care fairly in a reasonable amount of time, or if it were a simple part, i may even borrrow the part from a pump i have in the store, if need be and then when the new part arrived, i would repalce it and put tthe still new pump back onto the shelf(often times wiht pumps it is something simple, clogged or broken impeller,loose part or smething like that)
now since things got blown out a little earlier, this is how i probably woudl have handled it too, not the question of how it should have been handled, or what they have to do but what i would do(if possible), earlier i was jsut stating what is obligated or correct, not neccissarily how i would have handled the situation(at the least, i would have looked at the pump, to see if i could help)

 

[blondenaso1]

Ok, I think we are finally coming to a common ground. Once again Boomer, I couldn't ahve put it any better. I agree, every situation should be looked at seperately, and I agree that having good customer service does not mean he would have to replace the pump on the stop. Doing what is best for the customer whether it be trying to fix the pump or calling the manufacturer would be sufficient, just as long as they are showing that they care and that the customers business is important to them. I have even been in situations where the manufacture was contacted and told the retailer to replace the item for free. Again, depends on the situation. It is sad today that we have been driven to this. Honesty is fleating and finding an honest person is getting harder and harder. I agree that retailers should protect themselves from fraud, but when this is a repeat customer who does a lot of business with a store they should treat them right. I still beleive that retailers need to do everything they can to satisfy the customer, even if this means taking a loss sometimes or even the victim of a scam. I beleive what goes around comes around. People who take advantage of others will get it back ten fold.
And to clear up one thing. I never said I would ever slander or commit libel against a lfs if they didn't give me what I wanted. I am not that kind of person. If my complaints are founded then that is a different story, but slander is a very strong word. And of coarse libel is easier to prove. I don't think people would be stupid enough to print flyers stating false complaints.
But in the end I think we are finally finding the "healthy medium" that I was talking about before.
And just because I am younger then most of you doesn't mean that I am completely naive to the dynamics of business. I have taken my fair share of marketing and business classes and I also spend a lot of time in my father's business, which in my veiw, revolves around customer service. He owns a flooring store, and he has never advertised a day in his life. I have learned the power of the "word of mouth", and this is why I am so adament on this subject.
This reminds me of the movie Tommy Boy. Remember when Tommy says that "if you want I could crap in a box and slap a garauntee on it, but a garauntee is only as good as the man who sells it" I think that is a good closing to my post.
Later,
Taj

 

[dwf]

I'm not sure I understood what you all are trying to say. COULD EVERYONE PLEASE REPEAT WHAT THEY SAID?????????lol

 

[chevron tang]

yeah Predator's right about one of the lfs around this area. they are awful. care about only the profit and not the customer's needs. thats one of the reasons why i left. working in the retail business and in a lfs i know that that lfs could have taken that pump back, sent it to the manufacturer and gotten there money back. i've seen it done plenty of times.