Zane's Aquarium Project (ZAP) - Phase 1: Kickoff & Procurement Planning

[zaneperry]

Hello! I am a new member interested in creating a new salt water fishtank. I think an interesting way to do this was to make it an interactive experiment using the feedback from saltwaterfish.com users to design. I am not sure how the saltwaterfish.com members will take to this new project but it is worth a try. I have created a webpage where I would like to take your opinions and feedback to create my first saltwater fishtank.
Please take a second to visit the site: *link violation No links to other competitor websites can be on the linked page *
The following is copied straight from the project page.
Introduction:
Hello, and welcome to my Aquarium Project! You must be either a saltwaterfish.com forum reader or a friend who has had the misfortune of hearing me talk about my recent interest in building a salt water aquarium. Since I have no experience in building a saltwater fish tank I appreciate any advice you can give to assist in the building of my office aquarium.
I am currently working from home and spend quite a bit of time in my office. As you can see in the pictures below I currently have a very bland view of my wall between my personal computer and my work laptop. I have recently been interested in building a Saltwater Aquarium on top of this cabinet. Since I know absolutely nothing about putting together a saltwater ecosystem I feel the best way to build one would be to query the saltwater Subject Matter Experts on the internet to get there advice. I also think it would be a cool interactive project to let other users get involved in everything from material planning, rock placement, to fish and plants introduced into the environment. So far the material I have read on saltwaterfish.com has led me to believe that this website would be a great place to start.
I have recently read through some of the forums and learned that this hobby can become quite expensive. The purpose of this project is to get me started the right direction so that I create my first tank RIGHT! I would like to start with a budget of $500 (all my fiance will let me spend on it so far). With this money I hope to create an economical, upgradeable starting tank. I would like to start off with a large tank (using as much of the usable space as possible) and start with only the NECESSARY systems to sustain an introductory ecosystem. As I successfully sustain these introductory environments I will invest more money into the project. I have spent some time at my local fish store (Today's Pet) and they told me I can't start a fish tank for under $800. Thus spawn this project.
The first question is: What do I need to purchase? You will see as feedback is provided I will update the page and continue to dig until a design is agreed upon. Then I will begin procurement.
I hope to hear from you soon! :happyfish

 

[jcarroll]

Your dimensions available are going to greatly cut down your choices, so that decision will be easy for you. For example, I have a 55 gallon that is 48" long, 16 1/2 " wide (this is including the room made for the overflow box for the filter. If you do not use a wet/dry filter, you will still need atleast this much room for your hang on bio wheel filter), and 25 1/2 " tall (this is including the space needed on top of my aquarium for my lights. This can be lessened by using the standard fluorescent lights that come with most aquariums, but with these kinds of lights, you will only be able to keep fish and live rock. No corals or anemones can be kept.) I recommend making the space for lights because once you get started, you're going to more than likely want to get into corals and such.
To plan things out, do some research on what you want to keep and what kind of lighting you need for it. Since your budget is a little short, I would recommend just going with the standard fluorescent lights for now, but leaving room for a later upgrade. You shouldn't add corals and such until your tank has been established for atleast 6 months anyway. Also, I would recommend not skimping on the filtration. I like my wet/dry filter. It's a pro clear 125Gallon wet/dry filter which you can find for about $150. I also recommend a skimmer which cleans out extra "gunk" from your water. I use a corallife 65 super skimmer which I got for about $85, shipped. You will need a heater which generally cost between $15-$30, and if you go with a 55 gallon it is recommended to have two power heads which you can buy for between #20-$30 at any fish store. Other than that, you will need the obvious, a thermometer (digital ones are great and are only about $12) and a hydrometer (maybe about $5-$10). After you purchase all of your equipment, it's time to decide how thick you want your sandbed and buy that, plus some live rock (it's recommended to have a pound to pound and a half of live rock per gallon of water). A bag of live sand where I live costs about $20 and I used two for mine. Live rock runs about $6.99-$8.99 per pound here, but can be as low as $4.99 per pound in some stores. You do not have to buy all live rock in the beginning. You can buy just some live rock and the rest can be base rock which will eventually become covered with bacteria and organisms and then be considered live rock. I recommend staying away from crushed coral as your base. Most of the time people end up switching from crushed coral to live sand and it's a pain to do so. Crushed coral seems to cause problems with nitrates, which is just one thing you'll be testing for regularly. Which reminds me, you will also need a test kit. People seem to like Salifer, I use tetra test. You can start out by just testing for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, and pH. Eventually you will want to have tests to test for alkaline and calcium also. In the beginning, to save on initial costs, you can take a sample of your water to your lfs (local fish store) and have them test it for you for about 50 cents a test.
Once you get all of these and you have your tank set up with all of your equipment (do not run anything after adding your water and sand until your sand is totally settled, otherwise, the sand will end up all through your equipment), then you will have to cycle the tank. Do a search for it on this site and you will get ideas on how to do so and what it consists of.

 

[zaneperry]

Excellent Start! Thanks Jcarrol

So, to start the shopping off. If you know the best place for me to find each of these items please let me know. Some things seem to be better for purchasing online, and some at a local fish store. Any recommendations you can give with the shopping is also greatly appreciated.
- 55 Gallon (pref 48"x16.5"x25.5")
- Light Brand recommendations? How tall are Lights? I will be unable to raise the ceiling so I need to keep everything under 29". I do have hopes of eventually getting Coral to survive. Do they make lights that only vary in the type of bulbs you apply?
- 125 Gallon wet/dry filter
- 65 Super Skimmer (corallife)
- Heater
- Whats a power head?
- Thermometer
- Sand
- Rock
- Test Kits

 

[zaneperry]

What kinds of lights support Coral?
What is a good target price for a 55 Gallon tank? I have found interesting offers on ---- and craigs list. Many of them state that they include lights but do not have light details.
Does this look like a good start?
http://baltimore.craigslist.org/for/172797439.html

 

[zaneperry]

What do you need to know about lights for coral?
Would the following lamp support coral?

 

[teresaq]

with that light oyu could prob suport a few soft corals like shrooms. I have a 265 wtt fixture kinda like that, on my 55 gal and wish i had more. There are a lot of low profile light fixtures out there just google. What kinds of corals are you wanting?? if you are looking at any anemonies, the you would meed mh.

 

[petjunkie]

This forum doesn't allow links so you may want to remove them. If you want coral I would suggest soft coral to start out with and then you would want about 2-5 watts per gallon, this would support mushroom, zooanthids, leathers. Since your on a budget maybe buy a tank with the standard florescents and move up later that's what I did. Worry about filtration first, live rock and skimmer will cost you enough, since you can't add coral right away anyways concentrate on what fish will need.

 

[dogstar]

Wellcome to the site....interesting way to get help.......
My first thought is " how strong is that cabinet ?? " a 55 gl. set up is going to weigh around 500 pounds and should have direct vertical support to the four corners.....

 

[jcarroll]

First of all, you need to find if that tank for sale was used for freshwater or saltwater. If used for freshwater, I wouldn't buy it. It looks to me like it's freshwater.
If the type of lighting isn't specified, assume it's standard fluorescent because if it were something else, they would definitely say it. Lights are by far the most expensive part of the initial costs of an aquarium. This is why it may be a good idea to leave the fluorescents in in the beginning and save up for lighting. Your best bet would be to eventually purchase metal hallide lights. These can run anywhere from I'd say about $500 up, $500 being a pretty good bargain if you can find it. Like I said though, you shouldn't have corals in your tank for six months, so the fluorescents will do in the meantime. When shopping for lights, just google "saltwater aquarium lights" and check them out. You'll be able to accomodate the lighting you want with that much space. Just make sure that the ceiling isn't so close to the top of the lights that there won't be proper ventilation for the lights and in effect cause overheating. This more than likely would not be a problem though, as long as you're not right up to the ceiling drop you have.
Powerheads are basically for water rotations. They suck in water and spew it back out. It's to evenly circulate the water in your tank. You point them in different directions to try and ensure that there are no dead spots in your tank, which are areas that have no current. If you have a wet/dry, there will be a return valve since wet/drys are kept under your tank. The return valve returns the filtered water back into your tank, so this can count as one means of circulation. Generally, you aim it so that it sends ripples across the surface of the water. This oxegenates your water.
Not sure on a good price for tanks, just look around. You don't want a wrought iron stand though, I would think. The reason is that there is a lot of equipment with saltwater tanks. If you have a wet/dry filter, it can be kept behind the doors of a wooden cabinet. Plus, the skimmer is a hang on and can also be in the cabinet, running off of the side of your wet/dry.
The lighting you talked about would maybe at the most support some mushrooms, zoos, and maybe polyps. You'd have to look into that one to be sure though.
A good place to start out is the classifieds section of saltwaterfish. com boards. You will see what kinds of things are out there and how much people are asking for used equipment. You can also post questions about the equipment.

 

[zaneperry]

Well I have spent most of the day in the LFS. I have updated the page to reflect the recent purchases and setup. So far I am about $500 after my last trip to the pet store. Once the sand settles I am open for initial tips regarding the first couple days of a fishtank. I know where to get the salt level and the pH. Anything else to think about before getting Live Rock. Any advice for the amount of Live rock to get? When & what % of the water should I change (the LFS says after initially introducing the live rock I will want to do a 50% change, sounds like a pain

) Any advice to doing that? I still need to buy a Skimmer but have been told that I can wait until I introduce fish to get that.
Jcarroll - Thank's for the detailed feedback.
Dogstar - The cabinet held. Its a pretty sturdy SOB.
petjunkie - What do you mean it won't let me post links? If thats the case why don't they just edit the bbcode to remove links (not hard to do). If an admin requests this I will remove them but linking to my project page is pretty important for it to work. I thought they would be flattered that I consider this site as the forum of fishtank SME's.
TeresaQ - What can I grow under my lamp? (Coralife T-5 Series Double Linear Strip 48 Inch 28 watt 10,000K Daylight & 28 watt True Actinic 03 Blue T5 Fluorescent Lamps). They claim I can some coral etc. I would like to know what I can grow with this lamp. Down the road I plan on buying another high powered light to grow the good stuff.

 

[darknes]

Zane, I want to say welcome to the boards! I think this is a very interesting project, and I've got your page bookmarked! I really want to see how this turns out, so SWF members, let's see if we can pimp his tank, lol.

This might be a long post, but I want to help you out some.
The first thing that worried me was the dresser. Are you sure that thing is going to be sturdy enough? You would just hate to come home someday and find your $1000 project has crashed to the floor. A 55 gallon tank can weight a lot.
Next, the cloudy water is typical of any new setup. It will all settle within a day or two. If the salt level is correct and temp is right, you should be ready to add the live rock whenever you'd like. I also recommend bumping your salt level a little higher than 1.019...do a search here on the boards and read people's opinions. As for amount of rock, it's basically what looks good to you...some is more dense than others, so it takes up less space for the cost. I would recommend starting with 1 pound of rock per gallon, and you might later want to go up to 1.5-2 pounds per gallon. You really don't want to skimp on the rock, since it is one of your better filtration systems for the tank. If you want to save some money, maybe buy half live rock, and half base rock. The base rock is white and dried, but when mixed with the live rock, it will get seeded and become the same.
Yes, you can wait on the skimmer for a bit yet.
You need to get your cycle going. A common method is to throw a piece or two of shrimp from the store in there, and let nature do its course. I think putting some fish food in there does the trick as well. You need to buy some test kits, to test the cycle, so you know its done. I recommend a pH, Nitrite, Nitrate, Ammonia for now. Your cycle should take anywhere from 3-8 weeks. This will give you time to plan what you want in the tank.
As for the light system, you have a total of 56 watts, which means you cannot keep any coral. You can save up for that at a later time, however. I would suggest looking at your classifieds and on the internet for a used setup. This will also give you time to plan what corals you want so you can decide what lights you will need.
As for the links, your website link was fine. You just cannot post links to competitor's sites since these boards are owned by a company who sells fish and corals.
Happy reefin!

 

[darknes]

Oh, and you don't need to do a 50% water change after adding the live rock.
And you can add the live rock before you start your cycle. It will help boost the cycle period.

 

[darknes]

***) Lol, a few other notes.
Don't waste time buying 5gallon mixes of salt. It's much cheaper buying the 50 gallon pails, and you'll need it in the future anyway.
Make sure you buy those test kits, and start your cycle. While you wait, you can plan what you want in the tank.
Since 50 pounds of live rock can be very expensive (4-7 dollars a pound), look in your local newspapers and classifieds. Sometimes you can get some very good deals from hobbyists getting rid of their tanks.
You don't need to worry about powerheads at this point in time, unless you find a really good deal.

 

[zaneperry]

Darknes - Thanks for the feedback.
Could I get 20 pounds of Liverock and 30 pounds of base rock? I have already pushed my fience's envelope on this thing and don't want to go to far until my next paycheck.
Will the Liverock thrive on only 56 watt's of light? (Does it need allot of light to spread?)
I am not sure how to test the strength of the cabinet. It is old and strong as hell and at this point I think I am ok. I have filled the tank with water and sand and it is holding with no signs of stress on the cabinet. If you have any idea's on how I could test the stability of it I am open ears.
I assume by getting the cycle going you mean after getting the live rock in. Are you referring to a live shrimp or dead shrimp?
My water temp seems to be stuck at 81. I bought an analog thermostat to check the temp and have moved it away from the light and the heater but it still hasn't lowered. I live in Maryland and its not a sauna here. What can I do to lower the temp?
As always, your help is appreciated. This project is fun and I will continue to update the page as it progresses.

 

[jcarroll]

Once your sand is settled to the point where you can see to put your rocks in, you can add your live rocks. The water will get cloudy again for a day or two since you will have stirred the sand up again by placing your rock in though. As far as the temp goes, did you buy the right sized heater for your tank? I'm also having a little trouble with my temp and am going to buy a heater that has a temp setting you choose and then turns on and off to keep at the setting it's set at. Once you have your live rock in there, you can go to your grocery store and buy just some plain old dead cocktail shrimp. Drop one in there and just let it rot. The die off from it spikes the ammonia in the tank. The cycle is like this, first ammonia spikes, then your nitrites spike, then your nitrates spike. Once your ammonia and your nitrites are both back down to zero, you do a 10-20%water change and at that time you can add your cleanup crew. This consists of a variety of snails, crabs, shrimp, or whatever you choose and there purpose is to go in and clean up your tank from algae or what not that was accumulated from your cycle. THey are regular tank inhabitants on tanks becasue they eat leftover food, carcasses, and algae that can cause a nitrate spike in tanks. You WILL HAVE nitrates by the way after your cycle is complete, but it's safe to add things to your tank with it present. IT's not harmful to fish unless it gets extremely high, above 40mg/l.
You could wait on the powerheads until after your cycle if you want to, but I would think that they would be beneficial for your tank at any point. I have had mine since the beginning of my cycle.
Your live rock numbers sound fine. The first tank I ever set up I was very limited on funds for the rock and that sounds about the same as what I started with. Your live rock doesn't need any particular type of lighting, just corals and anemones, so your lighting will be fine.
Once your tank is set up and your live rock, sand, and shrimp is in there, you do not need to do any water changes until after your tank goes through it's biological cycle. This can take anywhere from a week, which is very rare, to 6 or 8 weeks, which is more common among first time tanks. Since you have live rock and is it live sand too? Because if it is and you add your shrimp also, you may find that your cycle is going to happen fairly quickly. You may see ammonia show up after just a day or so. My first cycle took about 6 weeks and that was using damsel fish to cycle it instead of the shrimp which is what I was told to do by my lfs. I strongly recommend not doing it this way because they can be aggressive and wehn it was time to take them out since I didn't want aggressive fish, I had to take out all of my rocks to get to the little boogers.

 

[dogstar]

Just filling in some details...
You mentioned a wet/dry...Do you have that installed ??
Whats the GPH rateing of the pump/s ???
Where did the water come from that you used and will be useing for water changes and topping off ?? Is it tap water or from the LFS or bottled RO ect. ???

 

[darknes]

Dogstar brought up some good points on the flowrate of your filters/pumps, and also the type of water you are using. It is highly recommended not to use tap water.
20lbs live rock and 30lbs base rock sounds like a good mix. Your lights will be just fine for the growth of your live rock.
81 is not a bad temp in my opinion. As long as it stays near a constant temp, and doesn't fluctuate more than 2 degrees over the day, it should be fine.
As for the cabinet, I'm not sure how to test it for sturdyness. What is the thickness of the boards on it? Can we maybe see a pic of the inside? It would be best if there is a support somewhere in the center and not just on the sides.

 

[zaneperry]

Dogstar - I have 2 Marineland Penguin 350 BIO-Wheel Power Filters. 350 Gallons Per hour.
http://www.*****.com/Assets/product_images/0/047431503632C.jpg.
I just got back from a different local saltwater specialist store (Sea Save in Glen Burnie MD [no link ])and spent a fortune for 30 pounds of great live rock (compared to the live rock in the other LFS I was using this stuff is great. I will probably buy another 20 pounds of Live rock with coral after I upgrade my light). After talking to the store owners (who were EXTREMELY PASSIONATE and knowledgeable about saltwater fishtanks

) I have decided not to throw in a dead shrimp. There exact words were start a tank with life, not death. I must say there argument was powerful. A
nyway, I have placed the Live rock in my tank and the sand is stirred back up. I will take a few pictures later and include some pics of the inside of the cabinet.
I did use tap water. Will the first cycle and natural processes not clense the water? I will try to use different water in the future for my water changes if that is what is recommended.
I asked my new Saltwater friends at Sea Save what they thought about me getting a powerhead and they showed me 4 tanks with the same power filters I have that are doing great. They said the extra equipment would just take away from what I have so far. They also recommended I keep the tank towards the low side for the first cycle. They also said I could throw a clownfish in after 48 hours, stating it would help with the cycling process.
Keep the feedback coming! If anyone knows anyone trying to get rid of a 48" light that could support coral let me know, I haven't been able to find one yet. I may just wait 6 weeks and buy a new one. Still have to get that skimmer too.

 

[zaneperry]

I am going to order my Skimmer online, would you get a "Coralife Super Skimmer 65"
or a "Aquarium Systems SeaClone 100 Protein Skimmer" The SeaClone's are cheaper.

 

[fedukeford]

Seaclones are known to not work all that well, id suggest a Amiracle Mini Quad skimmer (around $100 shipped)