"Zero Emissions Cars"
- Thread starter triga22
- Start date
aquaknight
Active Member
Originally Posted by TriGa22
http:///forum/post/3114070
I dont understand these "Zero Emissions Cars". The chevy volt runs on battery power. Where is the energy coming to power these cars? Correct me if I am wrong but I think gas powered turbines which have emissions?%%
Correct, they are only referring to the cars themselves, while are temporarily running on battery, thus for that short time span produces zero emissions. For the forseeable future, all 'hybrids' (hence their name) will still have some type of gasoline engine onboard, because of the range of the battery is limited to only 60 miles IIRC for the Volt (best so far). The other cool thing about the Chevy Volt, it's the first hybrid where the gasoline engine doesn't not actually power the vehicle at all, it's just used to recharge (fuel, if you will) the electric motor. Pretty much identical to modern warships/locomotives/etc. All current hybrids, Prius, Fords, etc, the gasoline motor drives the wheels as well as help recharges the battery. So the Volt can get away with a smaller gas engine (don't let the 'regenerative braking" thing fool you, it's not nearly enough to recharge a hybrid, esp. like on the highway when you rarely brake)
Even a full battery powered car, like the Tesla Roadster, still needs to be plugged-in to a power outlet, and thus if you're counting the coal/steam/etc powerplant used to make that power, will be far from 'zero emissions.'
Pretty much that old saying (relatively) that a Pruis does far more damage to the environment that a Hummer ever will....
http:///forum/post/3114070
I dont understand these "Zero Emissions Cars". The chevy volt runs on battery power. Where is the energy coming to power these cars? Correct me if I am wrong but I think gas powered turbines which have emissions?%%
Correct, they are only referring to the cars themselves, while are temporarily running on battery, thus for that short time span produces zero emissions. For the forseeable future, all 'hybrids' (hence their name) will still have some type of gasoline engine onboard, because of the range of the battery is limited to only 60 miles IIRC for the Volt (best so far). The other cool thing about the Chevy Volt, it's the first hybrid where the gasoline engine doesn't not actually power the vehicle at all, it's just used to recharge (fuel, if you will) the electric motor. Pretty much identical to modern warships/locomotives/etc. All current hybrids, Prius, Fords, etc, the gasoline motor drives the wheels as well as help recharges the battery. So the Volt can get away with a smaller gas engine (don't let the 'regenerative braking" thing fool you, it's not nearly enough to recharge a hybrid, esp. like on the highway when you rarely brake)
Even a full battery powered car, like the Tesla Roadster, still needs to be plugged-in to a power outlet, and thus if you're counting the coal/steam/etc powerplant used to make that power, will be far from 'zero emissions.'
Pretty much that old saying (relatively) that a Pruis does far more damage to the environment that a Hummer ever will....
uneverno
Active Member
70% of the electricity produced in the US produces GHG's. 20% produces non-GHG toxic waste (depleted Uranium). The other 10% is mostly ok in those regards.
49% of America's electricity is created from coal, the burning of which not only produces GHG's, but Mercury. A particular problem if you consume heavy metal absorbing plants like corn. (Try to avoid corn in the grocery store - it's in everything, including the feed of cattle, pigs, chickens and farm raised fish.)
In addition, the batteries have a limited lifespan and are hazardous waste to dispose of themselves. To Chevy's credit, the Volt uses Li-Ion bats which are reasonably environmentally friendly to dispose of, vs. Prius' NiMH batteries which are out and out toxic waste.
Li-Ions do tend to explode when mistreated, however - like when they're punctured or overcharged - so don't get in an accident, and hope the computer's voltage regulator lasts longer than the batteries do. Remember the Sony computer battery recall a few years ago? Same batteries.
Not to mention a new car is a bad enough investment, but how bad is the ROI on a $40,000 Chevrolet that's not a Vette?
49% of America's electricity is created from coal, the burning of which not only produces GHG's, but Mercury. A particular problem if you consume heavy metal absorbing plants like corn. (Try to avoid corn in the grocery store - it's in everything, including the feed of cattle, pigs, chickens and farm raised fish.)
In addition, the batteries have a limited lifespan and are hazardous waste to dispose of themselves. To Chevy's credit, the Volt uses Li-Ion bats which are reasonably environmentally friendly to dispose of, vs. Prius' NiMH batteries which are out and out toxic waste.
Li-Ions do tend to explode when mistreated, however - like when they're punctured or overcharged - so don't get in an accident, and hope the computer's voltage regulator lasts longer than the batteries do. Remember the Sony computer battery recall a few years ago? Same batteries.
Not to mention a new car is a bad enough investment, but how bad is the ROI on a $40,000 Chevrolet that's not a Vette?
scsinet
Active Member
Of course one thing to keep in mind is that although the volt simply shifts much of it's carbon footprint from the exhaust pipe to the power plant, power plants can take advantage of the economies of scale, producing the amount of power it takes to run the car with fewer emissions.
That said, they are hardly as "clean" of a technology as the automakers would want you to think. It's debatable IMO if they are as clean as a car that runs off of hydrogen or natural gas, but those two technologies have their hurdles as well, safety being a biggie.
As far as the environmental hazards of batteries and such, very true. I tend to think "You gotta start somewhere" though. If we want to truly explore what technology can bring to the marketplace, we have to start with less than perfect versions of it.
That said, they are hardly as "clean" of a technology as the automakers would want you to think. It's debatable IMO if they are as clean as a car that runs off of hydrogen or natural gas, but those two technologies have their hurdles as well, safety being a biggie.
As far as the environmental hazards of batteries and such, very true. I tend to think "You gotta start somewhere" though. If we want to truly explore what technology can bring to the marketplace, we have to start with less than perfect versions of it.
uneverno
Active Member
Originally Posted by SCSInet
http:///forum/post/3115629
I tend to think "You gotta start somewhere" though. If we want to truly explore what technology can bring to the marketplace, we have to start with less than perfect versions of it.
Agreed - not arguing against - just pointing out the reality.
In addition, domestic coal is better than imported oil.
http:///forum/post/3115629
I tend to think "You gotta start somewhere" though. If we want to truly explore what technology can bring to the marketplace, we have to start with less than perfect versions of it.
Agreed - not arguing against - just pointing out the reality.
In addition, domestic coal is better than imported oil.
mantisman51
Active Member
Jeremy Clarkson, on Top Gear-my new favorite show, explained the process of extracting the metals used in the batteries from Africa-shipping them to China for processing-sending the metal to Japan for battery assembly-then off to the U.S. for final assembly and installation produces almost 10x the pollution of driving a Ferrari F430 100k miles. That is before the pollution of disposing of the heavy metals in the batteries that will need changed 3x, on average, in 100k miles in the Prius. Jay Leno had the best line," Americans are very public in their private sacrifices to save the world." NIMBY. As long as the Africans and Chinese are the ones suffering from the toxicity of the Prius, Americans can smuggly proclaim their love of the environment. It is the modern equivalent of the 50's big chrome, big car craze. "Look at me, I care AND have the money to show it." I don't care that the thing is a polluting t urd. It'd be nice if the lefties would stop pretending they're doing anything about it, though.