Zoo's rapidly disappearing!

[nmocean]

Originally Posted by ophiura
IMO, you are on your way to another Ick outbreak, considering this rate of stocking.
I am not sure I am following you. The whole reason to leave the tank fallow for 30 days, and to QUARANTINE all fish, was to avoid another ich outbreak. By breaking the life cycle of the ich, I don't see how I'm on my way to another ich outbreak!
I have discussed the zoanthid eating "amphipod" with Dr. Ron Shimek (who is an expert invertebrate zoologist), and it surprised me, but I thought that I should pass this information along. He states there is definitely a "carnivorous" amphipod, that can and will eat zoanthids! However, amphipods do not change their diet, they are either carnivorous or they are not, so you would have to introduce the "carnivorous" species into your system. The carnivorous amphipod will eat healthy zoanthids, as several of us in this post have witnessed. I have asked Dr. Ron Shimek where I can get more information on these "carnivorous" amphipods, and I will let you all know if I find anything interesting.
-Jen

 

[ophiura]

Thank you for updating that information on the amphipods, which I was definitely unaware of...have you had this issue the entire time you've had the zoanthids?
Keep in mind though, that all I am trying to do is assist - and it is always wise to come up with all possible issues, one being that things are unhealthy. It is VERY common in this hobby for people to avoid the idea that something is sick and dying (very common with seastars) and suggest rather that it is perfectly healthy and something killed it.
FWIW, I strongly believe in taking things very slow, especially after a significant parasitic outbreak. You had that outbreak for a reason, IMO, and it is often stress related. You may have addressed the ick, maybe not. But it leaves room for other possible diseases if you stock too rapidly. That is a lot of fish going in the tank, IMO. If you are stocking a lot of fish at once, that tends to lead to disease and stress...whether ick or otherwise. Did you do a full course of hyposalinity during the 30 day time frame in QT? If so, and you always do a full course with any fish going in (and indeed some would say a non-hypo QT period for ALL things in the tank - rock, sand, or other!) , you may be fine. If not, I think you can still introduce the parasite. But, IME slower is often better. If you don't care for that opinion, then that's fine too.

 

[mudplayerx]

The amphipods in my tank absolutely devour any yellow polyps that I put into my tank. I really do believe that amphipods can eat corals. My guess is that combining certain amphipods species from different oceans with certain corals from other oceans can result in them preying on the corals.
My amphipods used to love to bite up my poor sea cucumber too. It was awful to watch them harassing the perfectly healthy creature.

 

[ophiura]

Originally Posted by mudplayerx
The amphipods in my tank absolutely devour any yellow polyps that I put into my tank. I really do believe that amphipods can eat corals. My guess is that combining certain amphipods species from different oceans with certain corals from other oceans can result in them preying on the corals.
My amphipods used to love to bite up my poor sea cucumber too. It was awful to watch them harassing the perfectly healthy creature.
And definitely amphipods, not isopods? What happened to the cucumber?

 

[nmocean]

Originally Posted by ophiura
That is a lot of fish going in the tank, IMO.If you are stocking a lot of fish at once, that tends to lead to disease and stress...whether ick or otherwise. Did you do a full course of hyposalinity during the 30 day time frame in QT? If so, and you always do a full course with any fish going in (and indeed some would say a non-hypo QT period for ALL things in the tank - rock, sand, or other!) , you may be fine.
I don't recall saying all the fish were going into the tank at once. Yes, I did a full 30 day hypo treatment on all fish. Some would say, leaving a tank fallow for 30 days is considered "a non-hypo QT period for ALL things in the tank- rock, sand, or other".
Originally posted by ophiura
If you don't care for that opinion, then that's fine too.
I HIGHLY value your opinion and others on this board, which is why I posted the question in the first place. You sound very experienced and knowledgable, however I am not without experience either, and was offended when you assumed things that were not the case at all, and made your response/conclusion from what you assumed.

-Jen

 

[bronco300]

thanks for the info jen, keep us updated, i would hate to see my poor zoos get eaten!

 

[nmocean]

Thanks Bronco300, I think it will be very interesting research. I will definitely keep you posted!

-Jen

 

[ophiura]

Originally Posted by Nmocean
I HIGHLY value your opinion and others on this board, which is why I posted the question in the first place. You sound very experienced and knowledgable, however I am not without experience either, and was offended when you assumed things that were not the case at all, and made your response/conclusion from what you assumed.

-Jen

I am only basing things on what I read in a thread. I am sorry for that, but what else do I have to go on other than taking the information provided and drawing some conclusions?

Its the world of message boards, LOL. Anyway, mine were based on a broad idea of NOT ruling out other options, which I think is always wise and may still apply. But when I see all those fish in QT at once, sorry, its still my opinion. Sorry if you were offended by it, that was not the intent. We just have a different opinion on this, and I still stand by mine even with additional information. It is a different philosophy on doing this, and we are all here to share those philosophies without, hopefully, being easily offended...but for sure there are those who set out to say things that will, and we try to catch that.

As for the amphipods, well, sorry also on that assumption. I do not know as much about amphipods as Dr. Ron, but then, I don't study them or have the time to dedicate solely to studying things in this hobby. My research background is in marine invertebrate zoology as well, but primarily echinoderms. Anyway, most amphipods in our systems seem to be scavengers, so yes, I made an error on that based on a limited knowledge, but to also try and not rule out other possibilities from the outset.
None of us know really anything about the background of anyone else, so we have to give each other the benefit of the doubt.

Again, I am sorry to offend, it was not the intent. But I will keep it in mind.

 

[bronco300]

out of curiosity, does he look like this???

 

[nmocean]

Bronco300- No, doesn't look like that. I will post a better picture. I did a freshwater dip on one of the zoo colonies, and this is one of the critter's that fell off.

Originally Posted by ophiura

I am only basing things on what I read in a thread. I am sorry for that, but what else do I have to go on other than taking the information provided and drawing some conclusions?

It might be wise rather than basing your conclusion/response on assumptions, to ask some questions that would substantiate your conclusion/response.

Originally Posted by ophiura

But when I see all those fish in QT at once, sorry, its still my opinion. Sorry if you were offended by it, that was not the intent. We just have a different opinion on this, and I still stand by mine even with additional information.

Are you assuming (again) that all of these fish are in the SAME quarantine tank? These fish were/are all being quarantined in separate tanks (aside from the Foxface and Powder Blue Tang, who are in a 55 gallon quarantine tank together). I am, and was not, "offended" by

your "opinion", I was more offended at how

you arrived at your opinion based on assumptions instead of information. FWIW, I think it is important to keep an open mind when offereing advice/conclusions.
Honestly, Ophiura. . .I get the feeling that we got off on the wrong foot, and the communication broke down somewhere, because I think in the grand scheme of things our "opinions" would probably be pretty similar. I see where you were going with your conclusion, and if I had the time and energy to type everything we have done with this tank since the beginning of July 2005 (the beginning of the tank going fallow), we would probably agree that it was/ is the correct course of action and carried out properly.
-Jen

 

[ophiura]

That's fine. We are off on the wrong foot and its not getting better at this point.
But in my defense:
It might be wise rather than basing your conclusion/response on assumptions, to ask some questions that would substantiate your conclusion/response.
I asked several questions, in addition to a few suggestions (eg eliminate other possible known predators of zoanthids (sundail snails, nudibranchs...not implying that is what you photographed but to see if any were there):
I specifically asked:
How large is this tank?
How old is this tank?
Any ideas on what the stress was in the tank previously that caused the outbreak of ick (possibly a tie in to zoanthid loss)?
And specific water parameters???
I'll wish you best of luck with your zoanthid problems, and will read other info you provide on it all. That's quite interesting. I think we probably are on the same page in the end.
:happyfish

 

[mudplayerx]

They were definately amphipods eating my yellow polyps and biting up my sea cucumber. It got to the point where the cucumber wouldn't even go on the sand or the rock because of the attacks, so he'd stay on the glass all the time. I eventually removed him.
My mandarin has gotten the amphipod population in check, but there are still enough to always eat any yellow polyps I put into my tank.

 

[nmocean]

I feel your pain mudplayerx!!

Dr. Ron Shimek described these carnivorous amphipods as "voracious", and I can certainly understand why.
Have you tried a six line wrasse?
-Jen

 

[mudplayerx]

I don't plan on getting any more fish, but thankfully it seems like the pods are under control now. They do still eat yellow polyps but I've fixed that by not having anymore yellow polyps lol.
I really miss my sea cucumber though. It was definately one of my favorite things in the tank and it kept my sand very clean

 

[weberian]

Mudplayer, I am having same problem with my yellow polyps. What other low light corals do you have that are not bothered by the amphipods?? I guess I need to look for something else too.