cycling question...

nvmycj

nvmycj

Member
Hi guys!
Confused about the use of dead shrimp and LR for cycling purposes...
1. How long does the shrimp have to stay in the tank, while cycling?
2. If I order LR, either cured or uncured, can I put it in the tank with the shrimp while cycling?
3. Basically, can I put in the LR and shrimp together while cycling? If the LR is already cured, and I put it in a cycling tank, there will be a die off, right? Resulting in an ammonia spike and starting a cycle. So, would I need a shrimp? After the die off, will there LR become "live" again?
I hope I don't sound too much like a schmuck. And I hope my questions make sense. I just wanna do it write the 1st time around...
THANKS!!
 
ofalegend

ofalegend

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by NVMYCJ http:///forum/thread/383663/cycling-question#post_3357228
Hi guys!
Confused about the use of dead shrimp and LR for cycling purposes...
1. How long does the shrimp have to stay in the tank, while cycling?
The shrimp (raw) should stay 2-4 days, long enough to get an ammonia reading. Once you have a reading on your test kit, you can take it out and discard it. Lots of folks use a fish net or a piece of stocking to keep the shrimp easy to remove.
2. If I order LR, either cured or uncured, can I put it in the tank with the shrimp while cycling?
Yes. If you order LR online, even if it says "cured" you're going to have to recure it. There will certainly be dieoff during shipping. If you're ordering LR, you won't even need the shrimp, you can cure the LR in the tank and the ammonia from the dieoff will cycle the tank. However, depending on the size of your tank, curing your rock in rubbermaid totes might be a better option. Even in my 72 gallon I was setting up new I decided to cure in rubbermaid totes because you should do 50% water changes twice a week while curing rock, so that'd be 72 gallons a week of saltwater wasted whereas I cut my waste in half by curing it in tubs and completely changing the water twice a week. Of course that will also depend on how much live rock you're curing. 45lbs was pretty easy to do that way. 200lbs would be a different story entirely. :)
3. Basically, can I put in the LR and shrimp together while cycling? If the LR is already cured, and I put it in a cycling tank, there will be a die off, right? Resulting in an ammonia spike and starting a cycle. So, would I need a shrimp? After the die off, will there LR become "live" again?
See above. The only way you're going to get aquarium-ready truly cured live rock is if you buy it from the LFS and get it home in less than 30 minutes, or transport it covered in water. The rock won't die from the cycle. There will be some die off, yup, but it won't die completely, it will remain live, just be sure to follow curing instructions and do the water changes and testing.
I hope I don't sound too much like a schmuck. And I hope my questions make sense. I just wanna do it write the 1st time around...
Smart decision. I tried this hobby 10 years ago and didn't do it right the first time and failed miserably. Just restarted about a month ago myself! Good luck!
THANKS!!
 
ofalegend

ofalegend

Member
Wow, I just noticed you're in Knoxville! Small world!
As for buying the rock, definitely go with online, there are a couple of LFS in Knoxville, of course (Aquarium on Papermill and Coral Reef on Kingston Pike), but LR is extremely expensive there $12.99 a lb I think at Aquarium and $10 or $11 at Coral Reef. Not that the rock isn't nice, but you can get it for less than half that online, including shipping.
 
L

livebait58

Guest
I'm from knoxville as well...... it really IS a small world! :)
BTW....NVMYCJ.....there was a woman selling 200lbs of cured live rock and 100lbs of live sand on CL the other day for $4 per lb. I bet you could talk her down to $2 or $3. Best of luck!
 
ofalegend

ofalegend

Member
Interesting! Either of you guys a member of the East Tennessee Reef Club? Thinking about joining, but I'm not yet decided. :) I'm back in the hobby after a 10 year break. Just ordered my RO/DI system and a Super Reef Octopus XP1000SSS skimmer for my 72 gallon bowfront.
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
to the op
I am just a little confused about your profile. I am the last one to preach to anyone about fish and tank size but I have to ask, do you really have a Moorish idol in a 29 bio cube?
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
The idea of the raw shtimp is to provide bioload to establish aerobic bacteria prior to adding fish. As long as that happens then success.
IMHO sufficient plant life like macros in a refugium will cycle the tank with no ammonia nor nitrIte spikes. Because the macros (and other algaes) prefer to consume ammonia over nitrates for thier nitrogen.
my .02
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaslbob http:///forum/thread/383663/cycling-question#post_3357479
The idea of the raw shtimp is to provide bioload to establish aerobic bacteria prior to adding fish. As long as that happens then success.
IMHO sufficient plant life like macros in a refugium will cycle the tank with no ammonia nor nitrIte spikes. Because the macros (and other algaes) prefer to consume ammonia over nitrates for thier nitrogen.
my .02
how does the use of algae in a refuge to complete the cycle in a new DT effect the colonization of bacteria that produce nitrates in the DT
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///forum/thread/383663/cycling-question#post_3357550
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaslbob http:///forum/thread/383663/cycling-question#post_3357479
The idea of the raw shtimp is to provide bioload to establish aerobic bacteria prior to adding fish. As long as that happens then success.
IMHO sufficient plant life like macros in a refugium will cycle the tank with no ammonia nor nitrIte spikes. Because the macros (and other algaes) prefer to consume ammonia over nitrates for thier nitrogen.
my .02
how does the use of algae in a refuge to complete the cycle in a new DT effect the colonization of bacteria that produce nitrates in the DT
I give up. how?

take the situation where at startup there is absolutely no aerobic bacteria. And the tank/refugium is stocked heavily with macro algae.
My point is that the algae will prefer to consume any ammonia being generated not being reduced by bacteria. Therefore there is no ammonia build up.
But the aerobic bacterial will show up and start reducing the ammonia. As more and more bacteria are resent there is less ammonia for the macros. Eventurally the bacteria are consume the ammonia and the macros are forced to get their nitrogen from the rsulting nitrates.
So the ammonia->nitrIte->nitrate bacteria spikes are replaced with at most a nitrAte spike ano low/no ammonia spikes.
Plus the same thing happens is something goes bump in the night. The dangerous ammonia spike is stopped dead in its tracks preventing a possible tank crash.
my .02
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Quote:
take the situation where at startup there is absolutely no aerobic bacteria. And the tank/refugium is stocked heavily with macro algae.
but if the macro is consuming all the ammonia how does the colonization of aerobic bacteria start
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///forum/thread/383663/cycling-question#post_3358128
Quote:
take the situation where at startup there is absolutely no aerobic bacteria. And the tank/refugium is stocked heavily with macro algae.
but if the macro is consuming all the ammonia how does the colonization of aerobic bacteria start
Just because as of this bacteria free micro second there is no measureabla ammonia does not mean that there is never a chance for bacteria to consume the ammonia. Afterall bacteria are everywhere macros in specifric locations.
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Afterall bacteria are everywhere
Quote:
take the situation where at startup there is absolutely no aerobic bacteria.
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///forum/thread/383663/cycling-question#post_3358249
Quote:
Afterall bacteria are everywhere
Quote:
take the situation where at startup there is absolutely no aerobic bacteria.
First is real world. second is hypothetical for analysis. Even if there were no bacteria you would get no ammonia spike. But actually there always is some bacteria. But that bacteria may (and probably will in new setups) not be present is sufficient numbers to reduce all the ammonia being generated. So the macros consume the ammonia not reduced by the bacteria. then the bacteria will expand until the bacteria is consuming the ammonia. And at that point the macros consume nitrates for nitrogen.
my .02
 
nvmycj

nvmycj

Member
Hey guys!
Thanks for all the replies.
First to FloridaJoe,...you said "OP." Is that me? I love Moorish Idol's but would NEVER put one in a 29 BioCube. That much I do know.
Second,...to OfALegend....MUCH thanks to you. I appreciate you "dumbing" it down for me.
 
nvmycj

nvmycj

Member
thirdly,...I will definitely be buying on line!
and lastly,...to all my knoxville neighbors, I've been to the Aquarium and Coral Reef. Both friendly LFS. I find Coral Reef a little more expensive on some things than the Aquarium.
I didn't know there was an East TN Reef Club. How'd you hear about it?
 
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