Get Ready for $3.50 gas by Christmas and $4+ a gallon next year!

rylan1

Active Member
Originally Posted by COWFISHRULE
matter of economics.
it costs a company 3.25 example to make a shirt to retail at 14.99
thats labor, raw materials, transportation (both inland china, aws- all water service, customs, transportation inland-us, and profit)
labor is extremely inexpensive there. so cheap as a matter of fact, i used to export electronic parts made in england to china to be assembled and then shipped to the us.
regardless of what they say, your average worker in china might make $2/day, if they are lucky. your average worker here makes i dunno, $7.50/hour.
that 14.99 shirt would most likely be $28-$30.
besides. the tree hugging environmentalists would probably be protesting the emissions from the factory, where as in china, anything goes (almost).
on top of that, the demand for these goods is constant, if not on a continuous rise. to have to go out and rebuild all these factories would take too long, cause a sharp rise in goods due to supply/demand, and add even more $ on top of that because the greedy investors would demand an almost immediate ROI.
you figure it out.
I agree with you... its all about the bottom dollar and maximizing profit. I think that this is a flaw with a capitalist market... its all about the dollar first and the employee second. This outsourcing effects all businesses...because I work in advertising and one of our competitors outsource ad design to India.
Now I have nothing against people in these other countries... they are using outsourcing to lift them out of third-world status... but the problem I have is that on average CEO's make 600x more than their average employee. I think that corporate greed is why we have many of the economic problems we are facing today and in the past....
You'll have a company layoff 1000 workers, yet the CEO will still make $20 million that year, with an additional $5 million going into his retirement fund.
 

hattrick58

Member
Originally Posted by COWFISHRULE
if i owned a business, i dont want anybody nor the govt telling me how much i am allowed to charge or how much i am allowed to make in a year.
why should they be any different? as soon as that happens, we have entered the society of communism.
tired of high oil prices? come up with an alternative.
What are you talking about? I'm saying that when the people of Houston were told to evacuate by a government mandate, it would have been nice if Exxon had pitched in a little petrol to all those people (you know, wives, children, grandparents etc.) who ran out of gas on the side of the highway when a hurricane was bearing down on them. Of course they weren't obligated to do this.
I'm not bitchin' about prices. If you had read some of my earlier posts in this thread, you would have seen where I posted how much they're paying in the UK. But you missed that, didn't you? Wake up, you're falling behind.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Company Profit margins
Microsoft
gross revenues 54.07 Billion
Net Profit 14.88 Billion
Profit margin 27.51%
Merek & Co Phramacuticals
Gross Revenues 24 billion
Net Profit 5.38 Billion
Profit Margin 22.42%
Proctor and Gamble
Gross revenues 77.89 Billion
Net profit 10.56 billion
Profit margin 13.76%
Master Card
Gross revenues 3.83 billion
Net profit 822 million
Profit margin 21.45%
Exxon Mobil
Gross revenue 388 Billion
Net Income 39.2 billion
Profit margin 11.59%
General Electric, Apple Computer, Pepsi, Pfizer, Medtronics, Taser are just a few other companies with higher profit margins than the evil Exxon.
 

hattrick58

Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
I agree with you... its all about the bottom dollar and maximizing profit. I think that this is a flaw with a capitalist market... its all about the dollar first and the employee second. This outsourcing effects all businesses...because I work in advertising and one of our competitors outsource ad design to India.
Now I have nothing against people in these other countries... they are using outsourcing to lift them out of third-world status... but the problem I have is that on average CEO's make 600x more than their average employee. I think that corporate greed is why we have many of the economic problems we are facing today and in the past....
You'll have a company layoff 1000 workers, yet the CEO will still make $20 million that year, with an additional $5 million going into his retirement fund.
From the Washington Post:
"Former Sprint Nextel chief executive Gary D. Forsee could get a severance package worth more than $54 million after stepping down Monday from the top job at the nation's third-largest wireless carrier, according to company filings."
In the same article
:
"Robert L. Nardelli, former chief executive of Home Depot, left that job in January with $210 million, an amount that was criticized sharply by shareholders and corporate governance advocates."
 

rylan1

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
Company Profit margins
Microsoft
gross revenues 54.07 Billion
Net Profit 14.88 Billion
Profit margin 27.51%
Merek & Co Phramacuticals
Gross Revenues 24 billion
Net Profit 5.38 Billion
Profit Margin 22.42%
Proctor and Gamble
Gross revenues 77.89 Billion
Net profit 10.56 billion
Profit margin 13.76%
Master Card
Gross revenues 3.83 billion
Net profit 822 million
Profit margin 21.45%
Exxon Mobil
Gross revenue 388 Billion
Net Income 39.2 billion
Profit margin 11.59%
General Electric, Apple Computer, Pepsi, Pfizer, Medtronics, Taser are just a few other companies with higher profit margins than the evil Exxon.
You're right, the % is higher for others, but they have a record profit. They should be investing this profit into more effiecient refineries and simply making oil more affordable. But these are all good examples of companies that are seen as negative.... Microsoft monopolizing the market...Credit Card companies who charge 20% interest....pharmeceuticals who outprice critical drugs for elderly and chronic ill patients.
 

rylan1

Active Member
Originally Posted by hattrick58
From the Washington Post:
"Former Sprint Nextel chief executive Gary D. Forsee could get a severance package worth more than $54 million after stepping down Monday from the top job at the nation's third-largest wireless carrier, according to company filings."
In the same article
:
"Robert L. Nardelli, former chief executive of Home Depot, left that job in January with $210 million, an amount that was criticized sharply by shareholders and corporate governance advocates."
This is crazy...and exactly what I am talking about. I wonder how much these Oil executives make?
 

darknes

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
You're right, the % is higher for others, but they have a record profit. They should be investing this profit into more effiecient refineries and simply making oil more affordable. But these are all good examples of companies that are seen as negative.... Microsoft monopolizing the market...Credit Card companies who charge 20% interest....pharmeceuticals who outprice critical drugs for elderly and chronic ill patients.
Oil companies actually are investing billions in refinery methods, such as refining from oil shale. They also invest a lot in alternative energy sources such as wind, solar, biomass, and geothermal.
 

rylan1

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darknes
Oil companies actually are investing billions in refinery methods, such as refining from oil shale. They also invest a lot in alternative energy sources such as wind, solar, biomass, and geothermal.
Are they building new refineries? I believe the current ones are outdated and a new refiniery has not been built in the US in like 20+ years, and they said prices for gas went up because they were operating at like 25% capacity or something like that. And if demand is up, this would be the logical step to supplying more and meeting demand...But again.. less production means more profit. I wonder how much our gov't is spending on oil/gas in Iraq/Afganistan...
And if they are investing in alternative energy...they are gaining a profit in that as well because the energies are far cheaper than oil.
 

hattrick58

Member
Trying to be as objective as I can, when I made the statement about never hearing anything from Mobil/Exxon until their quarterly profits report, this also includes any alternative fuel/energy sources they (hopefully) are working on. The oil companies have been very easy targets the last 35 years or so and I would think they would try to encourage a little positve PR from within the companies themselves.
Didn't the lawsuit (US v Exxon) concerning the Valdez mishap just become resolved? I believe that happened in 1989 or there abouts. I'm not going to pretend I know about this lawsuit or the law for that matter, but that was an awful long time for that case to be tied up in court, alot of taxpayers money. And being the cynic I am, from here it looks like Exxon was intentionally tying up the court hoping the case would be dropped, therefore shirking any responsibility of the environmental disaster.
But, hey. I could be wrong.
 

mfp1016

Member
Is it Exxon's fault for exploiting the current system? I don't think so. Perhaps we should call on a reform of our judicial system since this same problem is universal to all courts, civil, criminal, etc.
In regards to oil company executives, they completely deserve the salaries they get. Yes execs make 600x the average employee, but when crap hits the fan, that average employee is still going home to his family, while the exec is off to jail. I will agree that the old boy sort of systems are kind of ridiculous and that executive spending is fairly ridiculous. But I also must say that a lot of that kind of spending has been cut back.
To answer/resolve some other debates in this thread. Yes, oil companies reinvest a lot of money back into their company. Yes, oil companies own almost all alternative fuels. Oil refineries have not been built in the US because of the environmentalist movement. In fact a lot have been shut down due to violations of emissions. The oil industry does not work on supply/demand, working at 25% capacity is commendable. Oil companies can't simply start building more refineries and hiring more people to meet oil demand.
Lastly, IMHO there are a lot of people on here who aren't doing anything more than slander these companies.
 

reefraff

Active Member
All the Big oil cos are involved in alternative energy. They are modernizing refineries BUT it is so hard to get a new refinery approved they are smarter to modernize existing ones first.
There is a project to build a "green" refinery in the desert in Arizona near Mexico. They have already spent millions and havent turned a shovel full of dirt yet. They have been working on it for 10 years and have been obstructed by the usual group on environmeltaLESS wack jobs.
 

hattrick58

Member
Originally Posted by mfp1016
In regards to oil company executives, they completely deserve the salaries they get. Yes execs make 600x the average employee, but when crap hits the fan, that average employee is still going home to his family, while the exec is off to jail. I will agree that the old boy sort of systems are kind of ridiculous and that executive spending is fairly ridiculous. But I also must say that a lot of that kind of spending has been cut back.
It's ludicrous to believe that CEO's go to prison when the crap hits the fan. The crap hit the fan at Oprah Winfreys school in SA, but did she go to prison? No. she wasn't involved.
The US Government wanted to hold Exxon responsible for their mess in Alaska. Did any Execs go to prison when the crap hit the fan there? Nope. When GE and Whirlpool had their price fixing scheme busted in the 60's, did anyone go to prison there. Sure, but only the execs who hatched the plan. No one above, no one below.
If you don't like the justice system in this country, change it or get the hell out.
 

mfp1016

Member
Like I said, those companies hire lawyers to exploit the system to get them out of trouble. Its no different than hiring any other lawyer. Its ludicrous to believe that there is no problem with our judicial system. Many of your examples are lack context and are worked in to an overly-simple form to fit with your rant. So, nuts to you.
I have too much money invested in this country to leave and try somewhere else. Stop with your childish foddering.
 

mfp1016

Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
All the Big oil cos are involved in alternative energy. They are modernizing refineries BUT it is so hard to get a new refinery approved they are smarter to modernize existing ones first.
There is a project to build a "green" refinery in the desert in Arizona near Mexico. They have already spent millions and havent turned a shovel full of dirt yet. They have been working on it for 10 years and have been obstructed by the usual group on environmeltaLESS wack jobs.
I agree. Environmentalists have created many of their own problems. Cracks me up. Oil companies aren't involved in alternative energy. They own it, own it all. I know because I helped develop most of them. And on that same accord I can tell you that none of them are viable. Regardless of what we're going to burn to do whatever, the oil companies will own most of the intellectual property associated with it, so they're still making money.
 

hattrick58

Member
Originally Posted by mfp1016
Like I said, those companies hire lawyers to exploit the system to get them out of trouble. Its no different than hiring any other lawyer. Its ludicrous to believe that there is no problem with our judicial system. Many of your examples are lack context and are worked in to an overly-simple form to fit with your rant. So, nuts to you.
I have too much money invested in this country to leave and try somewhere else. Stop with your childish foddering.

Good for you. I hope your investments in this country provide you a great standard of living. You can, however, enjoy your monetary gains in other parts of the world. I'm sure countries such as Afghanastan, Iraq or maybe Syria would be more than happy to have you.
Who said there wasn't a problem w/ our justice system? But instead of complaining about about it, why don't you change it. Or get the hell out.
Or better yet, if you don't have the nads to do it, give me all your wisdom and I'll do it for you while you enjoy wonderful SW Asia.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Why should the Exxon ceo go to jail over the Valdez spill? Did they know the captain was drunk but allowed him to captain the ship anyway?
 

hattrick58

Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
Why should the Exxon ceo go to jail over the Valdez spill? Did they know the captain was drunk but allowed him to captain the ship anyway?

He shouldn't, he didn't & he won't. That's what I was saying. When things go south, execs won't pay any consequences unless they are directly & knowingly involved. As it should be.
That's not to say he won't lose his job. Ultimately, CEO's are responsible for the companies performance, but they are normally compensated w/ a handsome severence pacakage like Gary D. Forsee (Sprint-Nextel) or Robert L. Nardelli (Home Dpot). They won't have any problems finding another position. God bless America!
 

rylan1

Active Member
Originally Posted by hattrick58
It's ludicrous to believe that CEO's go to prison when the crap hits the fan. The crap hit the fan at Oprah Winfreys school in SA, but did she go to prison? No. she wasn't involved.
The US Government wanted to hold Exxon responsible for their mess in Alaska. Did any Execs go to prison when the crap hit the fan there? Nope. When GE and Whirlpool had their price fixing scheme busted in the 60's, did anyone go to prison there. Sure, but only the execs who hatched the plan. No one above, no one below.
If you don't like the justice system in this country, change it or get the hell out.
Our justice system is better than some other countries due to the fact of how it is set up....however it is very biased and easy (if you have $$$) to manipulate.
Why is it when someone disagrees or questions our government, there is someone who says if you don't like it than leave? I think that statement itself is unpatriotic becaue it goes against what we stand for as a country and what you are saying is essentially stripping our right to speak of up to spark change. People don't want to leave...they just want a better America.
 

rylan1

Active Member
This is just a question and not aimed at anyone, but I wonder how much Middle Easterners such as Saudi Arabia and Japan has invested in our country?
 
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