It's true... a reef safe ich med that actually works!

[cwgibson]

i made a rookie mistake of putting a blue tang in my 65g; although she was very small.long story short got ich and used this. 6 mths later no recurrence of ich at all,and i do understand the life cycle of this parasite.i cant say i have the years of experience that some of you have but if a product like this works i will gladly use it rather than hypo.pepper has been used for thousands of years for many different purposes and it is natural.as for hypo i would have to catch my tang;"stress", put her in a very small tank for a month or so,"stress", then drop the salinity to 07 or so,"stress".i dont see how one would consider this a better means. i know it works but if two things work why not use the easier and less stressful of the two.

 

[drewdog82]

Originally Posted by NM reef
Chem Marin's Stop Parasite :
"Stop Parasites is made from many different agents. One speeds up the fish's natural slime coat causing parasites to detach themselves. Another attracts parasites as a non-nutritional food source. Others speed up appetite and build the immune system. Will not harm internal organs of fish."
The above claim associated with "Stop Parasite" seems to be a common and natural occurrance in the life cycle of the parasite and doesn't indicate a "cure" as is being claimed.
Check the following quote closely: "The lifecycle of the parasite is interesting and important to understand when evaluating a treatment. The stage where the parasite is attached to a fish is called a trophont. The trophont will spend three to seven days (depending on temperature) feeding on the fish. After that, the trophont leaves the fish and becomes what is called a protomont. This protomont travels to the substrate and begins to crawl around for usually two to eight hours, but it could go for as long as eighteen hours after it leaves it's fish host. Once the protomont attaches to a surface, it begins to encyst and is now called a tomont. Division inside the cyst into hundreds of daughter parasites, called tomites, begins shortly thereafter. This noninfectious stage can last anywhere from three to twenty-eight days. During this extended period, the parasite cyst is lying in wait for a host. After this period, the tomites hatch and begin swimming around, looking for a fish host. At this point, they are called theronts, and they must find a host within twenty-four hours or die. They prefer to seek out the skin and gill tissue, then transform into trophonts, and begin the process all over again "(Colorni & Burgess, 1997).
Another interesting quote: "Many hobbyists are fooled into believing they have cured their fish of the parasites, only to find Ich present again on fish a few weeks later; a reason why following through with a full treatment protocol is so important. Don't make this mistake and be lulled into a false sense of security. The parasites may be in a stage where they are merely regrouping and multiplying for their "next offensive." In the wild, this sort of massive reproductive phase ensures that a few will find a suitable host to continue on the cycle. In the close confines of our aquariums, though, it means comparatively massive infection rates. "
Personally...instead of accepting the claims of a couple of possible positive indications of success from a miricle in a bottle....I'll accept the acknowledged and proven research of individuals that seem to know factual information about the parasite....preventation via QT is the best option and if infection occurs then QT with hypo salinity appears to be the best option combined with elimination of any host in the display that will interupt the parasites life cycle.
But then I tend to avoid snake oils and toxins designed primarily to remove my funds from my pocket.

So, if ich starts showing up in my display, are u saying that I should move all of my fish into quarantine, so that the parasites that are left in the display have no host???? Also, does this mean removing inverts too???

 

[lpuzon]

Originally Posted by drewdog82
So, if ich starts showing up in my display, are u saying that I should move all of my fish into quarantine, so that the parasites that are left in the display have no host???? Also, does this mean removing inverts too???

i'm afraid it does, for both of your question..

 

[drewdog82]

Originally Posted by lpuzon
i'm afraid it does, for both of your question..
Is it ok to leave your snails, and crabs in the display???

 

[lpuzon]

Originally Posted by drewdog82
Is it ok to leave your snails, and crabs in the display???

nope, all inverts can withstand hypo.

 

[saltn00b]

Originally Posted by lpuzon
nope, all inverts can withstand hypo.
inverts can NOT withstand hypo.
neither can coral, LR or LS.
the only things that can, are fish

 

[lpuzon]

Originally Posted by saltn00b
inverts can NOT withstand hypo.
neither can coral, LR or LS.
the only things that can, are fish

i stand corrected. it's just a typo. it's can't.

 

[drewdog82]

So does this mean that when a fish has ick, u take all of the fish out put them in quarantine (hypo) and leave all inverts in the display???
If yes, wont the ick re-attach to an invert???

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by drewdog82
So does this mean that when a fish has ick, u take all of the fish out put them in quarantine (hypo) and leave all inverts in the display???
If yes, wont the ick re-attach to an invert???
No, Ich does not live on the inverts. When you let your display run fishless for 6 weeks all ich will die. Ich needs to attatch itself to a fish now and again to keep living and keep reproducing. This can happen for a long time without even bothering your fish and without you noticing it if your fish are healthy. However, if your fish become stressed or have their immune system comprimised for any reason, then they will not be able to fight the ich. If the fish can not fight the ich then they attatch and breed more and more untill you have an infestation. Stop Parasites is a wonderfull med for helping to knock the ich off of your fish TEMPORARILY The ich will still be alive and well in your display. There are only 3 ways to get rid of ich. Hyposalinity (lowering the salinity to 1.009 in the course of 48 hours, waiting untill the last signs of ich are gone and then keeping it there for three weeks) Copper treatment (don't do in your display........which goes hand in hand with the third way) Remove all fish from your display for 6 weeks untill the life cycle of ALL ich is over.

 

[sepulatian]

Please remember, ich is an invert. Any med that is invert safe "Reef safe" is not going to kill ich. Your fish carying the ich and your beneficial inverts need to be seperated to treat for ich.

 

[beth]

Actually it is remotely possible for ich to live on "some" inverts, such as hard shelled inverts [like crabs, snails]. However, this is short lived, and inverts certainly can not host the parasite.
During the tomont stage, the parasite detaches from the fish and lands on some hard surface within the aquarium. This could be sand, rock--or the hard shell of an invert.
Even so, in the absence of fish in the aquarium, the parasite can not complete its life-cycle and will die. However, if a hard shelled invert has been in a tank with fish that have ich, say a hermit crab at the LFS where water is shared through filtration with fish and invert tanks, then it is conceivable that you could inadvertently introduce ich into your aquarium just by buying a hermit crab! The same would be true of LR.

 

[lpuzon]

Originally Posted by drewdog82
So does this mean that when a fish has ick, u take all of the fish out put them in quarantine (hypo) and leave all inverts in the display???
If yes, wont the ick re-attach to an invert???
read this drewdog82. this explains in detail......
Originally Posted by lion_crazz
Here is a little explanation for you:
Hyposalinity
Know: You cannot do hyposalinity in a tank with live rock, snails, hermits, stars, shrimp, live sand, corals, etc. Hypo will kill these organisms, and thus must be done in a quarantine tank. If you have none of these things in your tank, you may perform hyposalinity in your main tank.
When treating your fish for ich, all fish must be treated with hyposalinity, including the ones that do not currently have ich. As long as there is a fish in the tank, ich will be alive because it has a host. Even if you do not see it, it is going to be there. You will only rid your tank of ich when you remove the fish, put them in hyposalinity, and leave the display tank fishless for 6 weeks.
When you do hypo, you will need a refractometer so that you can ensure specific gravity accuracy. You will also need a pH and alkalinity test kit, and a buffer in case either of these levels begin to decline. I prefer Kent's Super dkH buffer.
Hyposalinity (hypo meaning lower) is when you lower the specific gravity of your tank to 1.009 over the course of 48 hours. I would always recommend that you do it slowly, as to not shock your fish. One way of bringing the salt level down is to do a series of small water changes, replacing the water in the tank with RO/DI water (without salt). When you begin to lower your specific gravity, you need to pay very close attention to pH and kH. These things may begin to drop, and you need to be ready to buffer them if they do indeed fall. Keep the fish in hyposalinity for 3 weeks. Begin counting the 3 weeks once you see no ich on the fish. While the fish are in QT, pay close attention to nitrates as well. If this level begins to rise, a water change will definitely be needed. When doing a water change, always be sure that the pH, kH, salinity, and temp is the EXACT same in your water change water as in your hyposalinity QT. After the fish have been in QT for 3 weeks, SLOWLY begin to bring the specific gravity back up. Do this over the course of a week. Make sure to do it very slowly, only bringing it up a few points each day. If you do it too fast, your fish will begin to stress out, as they do not tolerate fast increases of salinity.
After the salinity is brought upto the salinity in your display tank, leave the live rock and inverts in the bin or separate tank for another 2 weeks so that any ich living on the rock and inverts will die. Inverts and rock cannot host ich, so it will die within a 6 week period since it is without a host.

 

[lpuzon]

here's my updated on my 4th day of using this.....
good news, all of my fishes doesn't have the crystalline on their body.
bad news, all, except my hippo tang. i'm keeping a close look at him all the time and i don't think any of the ich went away. he was eating fine though. actually, is eating a lot still! i am starting on garlic soaked food this am, hoping for a miracle to happen.
2nd bad news, my bicolor angel is not eating. even with the garlic soaked brine didn't help.
i need help pls. QT is out of the question right now, i don't have it still....

 

[lpuzon]

Bump

 

[scsinet]

How badly covered is the Hippo?
If he just has a couple spots on him, sit tight and watch to make sure it doesn't get significantly worse. More than likely it'll all eventually go away. A couple trophonts on the fish is not any great casue for alarm unless he shows rapid breathing.
If he's dusted from head to toe, you can force the trophonts to drop off SOMETIMES with a freshwater dip, but I personally find it debtable whether the disease or the cure is worse in this case.
If he's really bad, you need to GET a QT before this parasite gets a foothold, even if something quick and dirty just to treat this fish. Pragmatically speaking, Hippo Tangs are expensive... right? Just get a 10 gallon aquarium from any local store and a cheap internal power filter (whisper 10i is a good choice). Get that tang out of there and treat the QT with cupramine. Be sure to get a Seachem copper test kit as that's the only thing that can reliably test "amine" copper. Also get a bottle of Prime (another Seachem product) to keep your ammonia/trite/trate down. It's far easier to do this than change the water every day, and having to re-up on copper. Do a 50% water change every 5 days.

 

[stacyt]

I still find it funny that people still dont seem to get the picture about this.
A QT tank cost less than most of the fish you are buying. A QT tank is a small price to pay versus loosing all your fish.
Sounds like several that have responded to this thread about having a problem with ich are introducing fish that are known for ich problems. Also sounds like some overstocking issues, and also rushing to add a lot to the tank.
I do not beleive that hypo is stressfull to fish if done properly. I have done it on every fish I own. Use a refracto meter for salinity, monitor PH, KH, and temp. Do not rush the process, and monitor very closely.
So rather than looking for a miracle cure why not just avoid the problem to begin with? QT tank, & hypo new fish.

 

[lpuzon]

Originally Posted by StacyT
I still find it funny that people still dont seem to get the picture about this.
A QT tank cost less than most of the fish you are buying. A QT tank is a small price to pay versus loosing all your fish.
Sounds like several that have responded to this thread about having a problem with ich are introducing fish that are known for ich problems. Also sounds like some overstocking issues, and also rushing to add a lot to the tank.
I do not beleive that hypo is stressfull to fish if done properly. I have done it on every fish I own. Use a refracto meter for salinity, monitor PH, KH, and temp. Do not rush the process, and monitor very closely.
So rather than looking for a miracle cure why not just avoid the problem to begin with? QT tank, & hypo new fish.

i would really want ot have a QT. i just don't have a space.

 

[lpuzon]

Originally Posted by SCSInet
How badly covered is the Hippo?
If he just has a couple spots on him, sit tight and watch to make sure it doesn't get significantly worse. More than likely it'll all eventually go away. A couple trophonts on the fish is not any great casue for alarm unless he shows rapid breathing.
If he's dusted from head to toe, you can force the trophonts to drop off SOMETIMES with a freshwater dip, but I personally find it debtable whether the disease or the cure is worse in this case.
If he's really bad, you need to GET a QT before this parasite gets a foothold, even if something quick and dirty just to treat this fish. Pragmatically speaking, Hippo Tangs are expensive... right? Just get a 10 gallon aquarium from any local store and a cheap internal power filter (whisper 10i is a good choice). Get that tang out of there and treat the QT with cupramine. Be sure to get a Seachem copper test kit as that's the only thing that can reliably test "amine" copper. Also get a bottle of Prime (another Seachem product) to keep your ammonia/trite/trate down. It's far easier to do this than change the water every day, and having to re-up on copper. Do a 50% water change every 5 days.

honestly, it's not that bad, my hippo got some here and there... if i were to count them, i would probably have about 20 of it. i'm just getting worried bec all the others lose the ich right away.
freshwater dip? any tips as not to make any mistake?
i do actually have the 10g kit that i bought at petsmart for my QT. i just can't set it up bec i don't have a place to put it. my mom wont allow any other aquarium in the house....
hmm.. any suggestion for my bicolor angel?

 

[scsinet]

For your angel, if he just stopped eating, give him time, he may start again.
For 20 trophonts, I wouldn't do a dip. You'll stress the fish more trying to catch him and dipping him than you will help.
As for the ich and the other fish "losing" it, bear this in mind. There are likely thousands of trophonts and tomites living in your tank, in the substrate, in the water, etc. It's a common misconception that they all go through the trophont stage at once, then all to the tomite stage, etc. That's incorrect. The different organisms are at different stages at any one time. Therefore, there will ALWAYS be ich on a fish that is susceptible to it. As trophonts fall off, tomites are attaching. The other fish are losing it because frankly most other fish aren't as ich-happy as hippo tangs, so they are doing better at repelling it.
Again, I urge you to look at your system and figure out WHY the ich is happening. Once you get rid of the cause, the ich will go away on it's own. Your tang doesn't have it bad enough to cause any major harm, as long as you get it addressed pretty quick.

 

[lpuzon]

Originally Posted by SCSInet
For your angel, if he just stopped eating, give him time, he may start again.
For 20 trophonts, I wouldn't do a dip. You'll stress the fish more trying to catch him and dipping him than you will help.
As for the ich and the other fish "losing" it, bear this in mind. There are likely thousands of trophonts and tomites living in your tank, in the substrate, in the water, etc. It's a common misconception that they all go through the trophont stage at once, then all to the tomite stage, etc. That's incorrect. The different organisms are at different stages at any one time. Therefore, there will ALWAYS be ich on a fish that is susceptible to it. As trophonts fall off, tomites are attaching. The other fish are losing it because frankly most other fish aren't as ich-happy as hippo tangs, so they are doing better at repelling it.
Again, I urge you to look at your system and figure out WHY the ich is happening. Once you get rid of the cause, the ich will go away on it's own. Your tang doesn't have it bad enough to cause any major harm, as long as you get it addressed pretty quick.

thanks sci, really appreciate it!
honestly, i don't know where to start looking. but my major suspect is when i'm doing my water change almost everyday the past weeks bec i had problem with my trites and ammo. my bad didn't really take the temp issue too seriously....

i am on my last day of stop parasites ( hoping my angel will eat soon -- gave them a hearty treat of mysis shrimp soaked with fresh garlic extract, but didn't entice her... but for the rest, wiped out clean!) i know i have to do water changes soon. but would somebody know how soon? :thinking:

btw, i turned off my skimmer during the days i'm medicating them - just thought it would be more effective that way.
still thinking of doing hypo in my MT. although, it wouldn't be fishless, i hope it would work.

and probably a UV too.