darthtang aw
Active Member
We were still meddling when isis formed? I thought we were no longer involved or policing the region.
Just heard.
- Thread starter darthtang aw
- Start date
Come on, DT..... The fact that ISIS exists because our military was used and abused to oust Saddam (regime change) speaks for itself.
darthtang aw
Active Member
I might agree with you beth had isis not gained its foothold and significant growth in Syria well before the push into iraq. syria, a country we did not meddle in.
Not to mention isis was an offshoot of Al Qaeda in the early begining. Exactly which meddling were we doing for 9/11 to occur?
As I stated, you want the country to stop "meddling", the. We have to remove ourselves from the global economy. We aren't even energy independent so that is not an option.
Not to mention isis was an offshoot of Al Qaeda in the early begining. Exactly which meddling were we doing for 9/11 to occur?
As I stated, you want the country to stop "meddling", the. We have to remove ourselves from the global economy. We aren't even energy independent so that is not an option.
santamonicahelp
Member
I got some good examples. Colombia, Nicaragua, Bolivia... they are doing better now without the US interfering as much.
Germany is in the global economy too, and being better at it than the US in some industries. Look at their car industry for example. They sell more, pay their employees better, have more social benefits and yet they don't have a military. Don't tell me this can't happen here. I'm just saying reduce it and stop being world police. The world doesn't need it.
The Germans rely on actually building something that is quality and offering it a reasonable price. I'd say we should be a bit more like the Germany of today.
Germany is in the global economy too, and being better at it than the US in some industries. Look at their car industry for example. They sell more, pay their employees better, have more social benefits and yet they don't have a military. Don't tell me this can't happen here. I'm just saying reduce it and stop being world police. The world doesn't need it.
The Germans rely on actually building something that is quality and offering it a reasonable price. I'd say we should be a bit more like the Germany of today.
darthtang aw
Active Member
You need to take some time and actually study the german economy and way of life. I lived there for six years. It is NOT the bed of roses you make it out to be. And they are protected by our military still. They have a military, they just don't fund it.
Iraq was virtually Al Qaeda-less pre Bush "Shock and Awe".....Saddam kept them out and would have continued to do so. ISIS would not have gained the hold it now has in Iraq if not for the regime change agenda of the USA.
Lets face it. Decades of our meddlesomeness has de-stabilized the region. However, American's are finally waking up to this and speaking out.
Lets face it. Decades of our meddlesomeness has de-stabilized the region. However, American's are finally waking up to this and speaking out.
darthtang aw
Active Member
Right now germany is heavily subsidizing the energy cost of their citizens. Yet energy is still costing the populace three times what it costs here in the U.S. Either way the government is spending money ensuring "affordable" energy for its economies. It falls under national security.
Beth, the problem with this outlook you and many Americans are starting to have is economically it hurts us at home. And for some reason you and others hold this belief we are the reason that region is unstable. Ignoring the centuries of unrest, war, and destabilization going on well before the U.S. Even existed and continued that way well after we were a nation and even set foot there.
Unfortunately we as a nation have helped promote and create a global economy. An economy that is beholden to energy. Energy that has one of the largest sources in a historically unstable region. If we stop meddling, will the region destabilize? Will iran stop nuclear proliferation? Iraq was u der oil sanctions, limiting fuel access, had iraq been left in this state and iran placed under oil sanctions as well how does this affect the global market? How does this affect your life?
The military's primary goal is national security. The number one security issue of ANYA country is energy. Without it countries collapse, economies crumbles, and nations die. Show me one country that does not have a solid energy platform, that has a booming stable economy, and a healthy populace.
Even if our military is used for oil, it is still defending our citizens right to "liberty and the pursuit of happiness". Because face energy is needed for these things in this world of today. We can't all be Amish.
Beth, the problem with this outlook you and many Americans are starting to have is economically it hurts us at home. And for some reason you and others hold this belief we are the reason that region is unstable. Ignoring the centuries of unrest, war, and destabilization going on well before the U.S. Even existed and continued that way well after we were a nation and even set foot there.
Unfortunately we as a nation have helped promote and create a global economy. An economy that is beholden to energy. Energy that has one of the largest sources in a historically unstable region. If we stop meddling, will the region destabilize? Will iran stop nuclear proliferation? Iraq was u der oil sanctions, limiting fuel access, had iraq been left in this state and iran placed under oil sanctions as well how does this affect the global market? How does this affect your life?
The military's primary goal is national security. The number one security issue of ANYA country is energy. Without it countries collapse, economies crumbles, and nations die. Show me one country that does not have a solid energy platform, that has a booming stable economy, and a healthy populace.
Even if our military is used for oil, it is still defending our citizens right to "liberty and the pursuit of happiness". Because face energy is needed for these things in this world of today. We can't all be Amish.
2quills
Well-Known Member
Germany and "affordable energy" are not synanymous. They're extremely high energy costs are a direct result of policy in their push to go all renewable. Their energy costs have more than doubled over the last decade since they've done so. Higher energy bills and higher taxes still aren't keeping people's lights from being shut off for non payment.
World security with our military. Talk about the nanny state, we have created the global nanny state as our allies depend on our military. Centuries of instability in the Middle East would have stayed in the Middle East if not for our interference. We have our own oil and our own ingenuity to create energy resources. We didn't need to go after the resources of uncivilized, non-western peoples who would,more likely then not, in the worst possible way, object to our plundering.
Washington, don't go to war anymore with proclamations that we are doing it to save the people (over there), nor create obvious situations where other peoples will come to see us as enemies, then target them as aggressive evildoers when you helped create them and even funded them in many instances. Americans are not swallowing it anymore and many soldiers aren't either.
If it were up to me, elective war would be left up to a vote by the American people, not the larcenists in DC.
Washington, don't go to war anymore with proclamations that we are doing it to save the people (over there), nor create obvious situations where other peoples will come to see us as enemies, then target them as aggressive evildoers when you helped create them and even funded them in many instances. Americans are not swallowing it anymore and many soldiers aren't either.
If it were up to me, elective war would be left up to a vote by the American people, not the larcenists in DC.
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darthtang aw
Active Member
I see where you are coming from beth but I completely disagree. The problem is more complicated than just us meddling in areas.
Touching on the elective side of things. That would be probably the greatest folly this country could ever do is give the power of war to to public in the form of voting. Before the Iraq war started polling put the population in favor of the iraq war by 72%.
Before Pearl Harbor the population wanted nothing to do with world war 2. Had our president done what he thought right at the time there wouldn't have been a Pearl Harbor and maybe the war wouldn't have been so hard fought. But the population didnt want it and the politician side of our elected leaders didn't dare risk their career by doing what they thought right.
The population doesn't pay attention well enough to make an informed decision on foreign affairs, interests, or national security. He'll half of them Couldn't tell you where ukraine is. And you want them making decisions concerning war? Seriously?
Touching on the elective side of things. That would be probably the greatest folly this country could ever do is give the power of war to to public in the form of voting. Before the Iraq war started polling put the population in favor of the iraq war by 72%.
Before Pearl Harbor the population wanted nothing to do with world war 2. Had our president done what he thought right at the time there wouldn't have been a Pearl Harbor and maybe the war wouldn't have been so hard fought. But the population didnt want it and the politician side of our elected leaders didn't dare risk their career by doing what they thought right.
The population doesn't pay attention well enough to make an informed decision on foreign affairs, interests, or national security. He'll half of them Couldn't tell you where ukraine is. And you want them making decisions concerning war? Seriously?
darthtang aw
Active Member
Yes, our military protects a lot of countries. It also makes the countries/allies more in lined to work towards our interests in other matters. Exams Saudi arabia. The current oil market price has dropped significantly recently. The U.s. Recently took the top spot for most oil producing nation. This has created more supy than usual thus lowering demand and the price. To manipulate oil price Saudi could have backed off production and brought the price up again. However the U.s. And our allies convinced Saudi to keep pumping and pump more. Maintaining their market share and Maintaining the high amount of oil output. Maintaining lower price.
Our military bases have been in Saudi operating for years. So after reading what I just stated concet i g Saudi, should we not be in saudi with our mitary?
Our military bases have been in Saudi operating for years. So after reading what I just stated concet i g Saudi, should we not be in saudi with our mitary?
2quills
Well-Known Member
Saudi Arabia = the funding fathers of al qaeda and the 9/11 hijackers. Half of the terrorists in our detention centers are saudis. Polls show that the majority of educated men there are in agreance with al qaedas agenda against us. And have played a key roll in the destabilization of iraq. Why aren't we bombing them? Something tells me they haven't maintained oil production simply because they are our friends.
darthtang aw
Active Member
That is a very narrow minded view stemming from misinformation meant to breed hatred an distrust. Saudi Arabia has been attacked and fought al Qaeda on numerous instances.
darthtang aw
Active Member
Historically Saudi arabi has been inclined to increase and decrease oil production inline with our goals and desires. It wasn't until the recent administration that some of this has changed. Mostly stemming from our president creating red lines then letting them. Turn pink and then white within the region. As well as his willingness to allow certain events to unfold in the region without any guidance. Isis is prime example of this.