LED lighting, Spectrum question

mombostic

mombostic

Member
All of my equipment is pretty old, and I'm just now reading through all the posts about LED lighting.
Are these now considered better than MH? I only have a couple of soft corals and my anemone, but I have been thinking about a new light fixture and I was just going to get another MH. I like to keep my options open in case I want to get more corals or something.
From what I'm reading, the LED is suitable for anything, even the highest lighting needs. The pictures seem to show a blue colored light, which is what I like. So, big question--is LED better than MH? I would have to get a pre-made unit--I'm not building anything.
Lastly, remind me again about the spectrum of bulbs--the higher numbers, like 20K, are the more blue lights, right? This last bulb I got seems awfully yellow to me. It was a 14K.
Thanks!
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
"Is LED better than MH?"
The answer is maybe.
Metal halides are not cheap - neither is LEDs. Metal halides run really hot, and add heat to the aquarium, LED's do not. Metal Halides produce a much wider spectrum than LEDs, but a well built LED unit will have more than just cool white and royal blue LEDs. LEDs and metal halides both produce the shimmer effect. LEDs produce about the same PAR and lumen readings as metal halides, and have a much smaller overall footprint. Metal halide bulbs need to be replaced once every 12 months and LEDs need to be replaced every 10 years or until they burn out. Metal halides can loose spectrum over time where as LEDs just burn out when they are ar the end of their life. LEDs are fully customizeable and are easily programmed with dimmer switches and controllers for cloud effects, lightening effects and so on and so forth. LEDs are a little more to buy right off the bat, but they have a longer life span than Metal halides, and they also cost less to run per month.
It's really just what you are looking for...
The higher the Kelvin rating, typically the bluer it looks. It also depends on the brand of the bulb.
I really like metal halides, but if I had the choice right now, I would go for a well built customizable LED unit.
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
It's just from what I have read/researched. I have no first hand experience. I would be interested in finding that out too....
 
mombostic

mombostic

Member
The Marineland fixture looks so thin compared to my big, noisy MH fixture! I like the look of it, and definitely like the thought of it saving evergy,
True story--I haven't had a heater in my tank for almost three years. The temp always stays steady. If the debate that I sense is getting ready to start ends with LEDs running cooler, I may have to put my heater back in.
I just don't want anything to happen to my anemone. I've had it so long. But I'm going to have to get a new light sometime soon. My fan is getting clunky and the whole thing is just showing its age. Since the spectrums are similar, the anemone should be okay with the switch, right? I've never had any problems when I did bulb changes.
 
mombostic

mombostic

Member
Sorry, you said MH has a much wider spectrum. A wider spectrum is better, though, right? It is closer to natural sunlight, if I remember correctly.
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
marineland fixtures are not good at all... and definitely not reef capable.
LEDs are not cheap... a good fixture is around $500 to $600 on the cheap end.
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mombostic http:///t/389794/led-lighting-spectrum-question#post_3447311
Sorry, you said MH has a much wider spectrum. A wider spectrum is better, though, right? It is closer to natural sunlight, if I remember correctly.
Depends on the fixture... Fixtures with just royal blues and cool whites don't have the same spectrum as those fixtures that also incorporate reds, violates, greens, purples, and warm whites alongside cool whites and royal blues...
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/389794/led-lighting-spectrum-question#post_3447314
Depends on the fixture... Fixtures with just royal blues and cool whites don't have the same spectrum as those fixtures that also incorporate reds, violates, greens, purples, and warm whites alongside cool whites and royal blues...
Not entirely true......We could search the other forum where the tank from PR I think uses nothing but AI from tank start up and colors are incredible.......
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Sorry I should elaborate more at times.....Not arguing with what Seth stated, but I can't agree....There really is not hard evidence other than what's being learned as we go along.....There's tanks being run on the AI units that are very nice looking and not suffering. Where can we honestly prove that those added colors are needed or useful
Honestly IMO purely speculative.....I say it that way, because even with some of the PAR readings out there are subjective, because we all know it's hard to measure the blue spectrum, and even photographing a tank lit with LEDs isn't easy, because of what the camera does to the pics makes pics totally unreliable. Therefore I draw a small conclusion that we really don't know in great depth. Some of the colors are more for our personal tastes. I had mention UV a while ago and people wavered a bit about it's harms and affects, but just as the violet LEDs popping up.....
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/389794/led-lighting-spectrum-question#post_3447334
Agree on the heat issue, but I questioned more on the PAR for PAR issue....
I would wager to guess that her fixture is capable of putting more PAR than a 400w halide with a descent reflector. The real tell will be the difference in tank temp once she's able to crank the fixture all the way up. Somehow I'm still leaning towards the thought that the heat transferred to the tank will barely be measurable if any.
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Well, I actually agree with you, Acrylic. The reason I mentioned about the other colors is because the OP asked about a fuller spectrum. There are many people who use only cool whites and royal blues on their tanks who have plenty of success keeping a wide variety of corals including SPS.
We all know that half the PAR is lost within the first six inches of water. Most of the color spectrum in the ocean that reaches the corals we like to keep is within the blue range - so naturally we believe that most corals prefer the blue range of the spectrum. Some shallow water corals, though, may prefer the blues, yellows and reds of the color spectrum (some SPS corals) ... but right now it's speculative. (yeah, I've been reading coral magazine. lol)
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/389794/led-lighting-spectrum-question#post_3447340
Well, I actually agree with you, Acrylic. The reason I mentioned about the other colors is because the OP asked about a fuller spectrum. There are many people who use only cool whites and royal blues on their tanks who have plenty of success keeping a wide variety of corals including SPS.
We all know that half the PAR is lost within the first six inches of water. Most of the color spectrum in the ocean that reaches the corals we like to keep is within the blue range - so naturally we believe that most corals prefer the blue range of the spectrum. Some shallow water corals, though, may prefer the blues, yellows and reds of the color spectrum (some SPS corals) ... but right now it's speculative. (yeah, I've been reading coral magazine. lol)
That's pretty much the way I understand it too. Shallow water SPS are more adapt to a broader range of the spectrum. Which is probably why so many people saw color change or loss of color in certain sps corals for quite a while. Tanks with corals that have been raised under a certain and consistant type of lighting source for a while have acclimated to those specific ranges.
So when the change is made from one light source to another, it's not just the intesity that the corals need to addapt to, but it's also the shift in spectrum.
Cool white and royal blue just don't cover that much of the spectrum at all. Visually it looks fairly good. But the more peaks across the spectrum you can give the better it's going to be across the board for color and growth. The trick is finding the right balance of colors that works for what your goals are.
 
mombostic

mombostic

Member
Marineland seems to be a common fixture--what is a better brand? I thought it was cheap enough to be in the "too good to be true" category.
Having had MH for so long, my anemone is adapted to that. I noticed you mentioning someone who had switched from MH to LED. I'm going to look up that thread and see if she mentions what is in her tank--for example, an anemone. I hate to repeat myself, but I would be beyond ticked if my anemone died because I switched lighting. Way back when, I switched from CF to the MH, and it did fine. It actually split after that.
I know no one can say, "Your anemone will be fine with the switch," but I'm just trying to think this thing through. No matter topic you look up or read about, there are arguments both for and against every point.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mombostic http:///t/389794/led-lighting-spectrum-question#post_3447346
Marineland seems to be a common fixture--what is a better brand? I thought it was cheap enough to be in the "too good to be true" category.
Having had MH for so long, my anemone is adapted to that. I noticed you mentioning someone who had switched from MH to LED. I'm going to look up that thread and see if she mentions what is in her tank--for example, an anemone. I hate to repeat myself, but I would be beyond ticked if my anemone died because I switched lighting. Way back when, I switched from CF to the MH, and it did fine. It actually split after that.
I know no one can say, "Your anemone will be fine with the switch," but I'm just trying to think this thing through. No matter topic you look up or read about, there are arguments both for and against every point.
Her screen name is Meowzer. She's one of the mods here. https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/387353/meowzers-led-build/580 She and her hubby recently built a led fixture and made the switch on their 225g. She has pretty much all types of coral in the tank as well as anemones. I believe everything is doing well so far. But it's only been a week or two. But I believe the change is for the better. Many, many, many people know are having great success with leds. You just have to be careful what you're buying. You need something that's going to work. And from what I've seen and read, Marineland would never be an option of mine. They can keep some stuff. But they don't produce great color or great growth. Especially for high light demanding livestock.
 
mombostic

mombostic

Member
A LOT of the reviews of the Marineland fixture mention lights going out after only a very short period of time, and on several different sites I read different problems with the power supply. The only up side is that Marineland seems to have pretty good customer service, but still, how much trouble is too much?
When you do a search for LED lighting, like the first twenty hits are Marineland!
 
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