Metal Halide lighting question, need opinions!

kellenr

kellenr

Member
I'm upgrading my lighting from PC's to a Metal Halide. Its for my 29gal tall fish/reef tank. I found a source that has 2 very similar setups available to me, both are Retro-Fit. I need a little help as to which one I should choose, since this is my first dabble into MH's as I've always had PC's.
1st Option: 1 x 250w MH, new 14K or 20K bulb, new reflector w/ mogul, new cables, but a REFURBISHED 250w probe start ballast, plus a 1yr. warranty on the ballast.
Total Cost: $95 ($20 more for a NEW probe start ballast).
2nd Option: 1 x 250w MH, new 15K German made bulb, new spider reflector w/ mogul, new cables, new electronic ballast (supposedly runs cooler and more efficiently than pulse or magnetic ballasts), plus 5yr warranty on ballast.
Total Cost: $175
So which one is a better system to get? I'm not too familiar with the different style ballasts (probe, electronic, magnetic).
 
kellenr

kellenr

Member
Originally Posted by smokingreefer
http:///forum/post/2688312
Seems like a good deal, maybe to good to be true for MH's. What brand are they?
Its some off-brand, not a big name company. The ballasts are made in the USA.
Since its a retro-fit system its pretty much just the ballast & bulb that I'm really paying for. I'm gonna make sure I get a good quality bulb.
 
smokingreefer

smokingreefer

Member
Ok, I would be hesitant about buying a cheap light. You might have to end up spending more in the long run when it craps out.
 
mr_x

mr_x

Active Member
those ballasts might not push the bulbs to their capacity either. also, the bulbs might be crap too.
i did a quick search and found a few decent retro kits that would suit you. unfortunately, i can't post them here.
 
pettyhoe

pettyhoe

Member
I wouldn't go with a 20K bulb unless you have a PC or T5 supplement. They are too blue for me. More efficient and cooler are two very important features to have with MH's, I would go with that one, even though more expensive, your going to want this purchase to last a long time, and with the longer warrantee and American made, that is possible.
 
spiderwoman

spiderwoman

Active Member
Out of those 2 I'd go with No 2. Yes it costs more, but everything is new. I just turned on our Radium 20k bulbs on 2x400W retros and absolutely love the color of the true blue. They will not be supplemented with anything.
 
pettyhoe

pettyhoe

Member
Remember that MH bulbs only put out a limited spectrum of light, although it is intense, it is not wide. I say to supplement so that the corals "pop" more and receive the proper levels of the light spectrum they need. Corals will do well in a MH only setup, but thrive in a supplemented setup. If your happy with the way it looks, and your corals are doing well, then more power to you, the mere fact that you love this hobby is enough for me. ;)
 
kellenr

kellenr

Member
Originally Posted by Mr_X
http:///forum/post/2688631
those ballasts might not push the bulbs to their capacity either. also, the bulbs might be crap too.
i did a quick search and found a few decent retro kits that would suit you. unfortunately, i can't post them here.
Yeah I thought about that, I'm gonna hook it up to a circuit tester and see if it's pumping the full 250W. It should I would think, especially if there's a 5yr warranty on the ballast. I think not pumping the full 250w would qualify for replacement.
I was thinking the 2nd one anyway, its not expensive and I like that everything is new. I was gonna go with a 14K or 15K bulb, along with keeping 2 of my current 65watt PC's, maybe going with 2 50/50's instead of the 10K and Actinic.
 
stanlalee

stanlalee

Active Member
For $175 (give or take $5-25) you can get almost any name brand and reputable retro kit with spider reflector on the market (PFO, Coralvue, ARO, Sunlight supply ect) so I hope for $175 its one of those (if its not I can point you in the right direction via PM. you can get some of those brands shipped for that much so no need to go no name). the difference in price between the popular brand 175w and 250w is usually only about $10 so cost is not a factor.
I would still stick with 175w since there is no point in expending more energy and heat then you need and 175w will definately do the trick (Consider the best 175w SE bulbs: aqualine AB 13k, Iwasaki 15k, Ushio 10k&14k, XM10k ect have more par then most of 20k 250w SE bulbs and match or better many popular 14k 250w bulbs per Sanjay testing).
I would skip the cheapo egay option. for one a new probe start magnetic ballast is only $70, a cheap no name hallide bulb about $20 and a cheap batwing reflector $40 so once you factor in the refurb magnetic ballast and warranty its no great value. for two while most 175w bulbs are probe start, a few good ones (AB, Ushio) may not fire on probe start ballast. Electronic ballast and pulse start magnetic will fire anything. for three you can add another $60-$80 to that price because a good quality bulb is not optional. And finally magnetic ballast humm and are a bit crude firing up compared to E-ballast (also use less energy but dont neccesarily beform better, often not).
I went thru this same thing (contemplating all the egay options ect) when purchasing my 1rst halides and ended up spending a little more on a reputable brand (sunlight supply ballast, sunlight supply reflector with plug and play cord and AB bulb) and couldn't have been happier I didn't go the no name route (all still bought on egay lol). Name brand helps when its time to sell too!
 
mr_x

mr_x

Active Member
i use sunlight supply "galaxy" ballasts. i like them. one took a crap on me early on, but they sent a new one out, no questions asked. the corals seem to like them too. i heard they have the same innards as icecap, but a different shell, and warranty.
 
kellenr

kellenr

Member
So you think the 175w will put out more PAR than the 250w? I'm planning on getting a top-notch bulb no matter what I get or it comes with. As far as heat, will this be a big problem, is there a big difference in heat output between the two? I am putting this in a 'closed hood' canopy so heat is not my friend.
...for my 29gal.
Originally Posted by Stanlalee
http:///forum/post/2689129
For $175 (give or take $5-25) you can get almost any name brand and reputable retro kit with spider reflector on the market (PFO, Coralvue, ARO, Sunlight supply ect) so I hope for $175 its one of those (if its not I can point you in the right direction via PM. you can get some of those brands shipped for that much so no need to go no name). the difference in price between the popular brand 175w and 250w is usually only about $10 so cost is not a factor.
I would still stick with 175w since there is no point in expending more energy and heat then you need and 175w will definately do the trick (Consider the best 175w SE bulbs: aqualine AB 13k, Iwasaki 15k, Ushio 10k&14k, XM10k ect have more par then most of 20k 250w SE bulbs and match or better many popular 14k 250w bulbs per Sanjay testing).
I would skip the cheapo egay option. for one a new probe start magnetic ballast is only $70, a cheap no name hallide bulb about $20 and a cheap batwing reflector $40 so once you factor in the refurb magnetic ballast and warranty its no great value. for two while most 175w bulbs are probe start, a few good ones (AB, Ushio) may not fire on probe start ballast. Electronic ballast and pulse start magnetic will fire anything. for three you can add another $60-$80 to that price because a good quality bulb is not optional. And finally magnetic ballast humm and are a bit crude firing up compared to E-ballast (also use less energy but dont neccesarily beform better, often not).
I went thru this same thing (contemplating all the egay options ect) when purchasing my 1rst halides and ended up spending a little more on a reputable brand (sunlight supply ballast, sunlight supply reflector with plug and play cord and AB bulb) and couldn't have been happier I didn't go the no name route (all still bought on egay lol). Name brand helps when its time to sell too!
I'm having a hard time finding these brands 'similar' in price. Everything I'm looking at is almost double in price. I don't want anything used. I was thinking a 250w 14K or 15K bulb. You really think that electronic 250w ballast w/ a 5yr warranty isn't good to get huh.
 
mr_x

mr_x

Active Member
i bought a "hombby" fixture off of sleaze-bay a while back and it came with an electronic ballast. it did fire the cheap bulb it came with, but it had hardly any PAR. zoos and mushrooms were starving for light. i changes out the 250 watt lamp for a XM 10k, and then an XM 15k. neither of those would put out enough usable light for the corals i kept.
i don't believe that a high quality 175 watt setup would put out more PAR than the same quality 250 watt setup though.
 
kellenr

kellenr

Member
Originally Posted by Mr_X
http:///forum/post/2690168
i bought a "hombby" fixture off of sleaze-bay a while back and it came with an electronic ballast. it did fire the cheap bulb it came with, but it had hardly any PAR. zoos and mushrooms were starving for light. i changes out the 250 watt lamp for a XM 10k, and then an XM 15k. neither of those would put out enough usable light for the corals i kept.
i don't believe that a high quality 175 watt setup would put out more PAR than the same quality 250 watt setup though.
So you're saying go with the 250w and be sure to get a 'good' bulb, right? How bout heat? Whats that gonna be like compared to my PC's. The light is only gonna be about 6-7 inches off of the surface water, is that gonna be a problem?
 
mr_x

mr_x

Active Member
it's hard to say if it will be a problem or not. it depends on more than just the fixture. do you run the a/c in that room? is it in the basement?
i have my tanks in the basement, and i run a 400 watt and two 250 watters over my main tank with 4 x 54 watt t-5's as actinic suppliment, along with 150 watts of pc over the refugium, and the only thing i need to keep it cool is a 12" fan on a timer with the halides.
what stanlalee said about the 175 watters being stronger than the 250's is puzzling for sure. i couldn't make heads or tails of sanjay's tests, but i feel that if 175's were stronger, why would they even have 250's?
i've heard the same thing about 250's versus 400's...meanwhile, my corals can tell the difference.
the difference between a good halide setup and pc's is night and day. welcome to a whole new world!
 
stanlalee

stanlalee

Active Member
Originally Posted by Mr_X
http:///forum/post/2690669
what stanlalee said about the 175 watters being stronger than the 250's is puzzling for sure. i couldn't make heads or tails of sanjay's tests, but i feel that if 175's were stronger, why would they even have 250's!
what I said was a "good" 175w bulb will outperform a average or poor performing 250w halide. All easily verified on sanjays performance data testing. I never said a 175w 10k XM bulb will outperform a 250w 10k XM bulb or the best 250w SE bulbs but if you take the 50 or so SE 250w bulbs tested the 175w XM 10k or 175w AB 13k (amonst the best PAR 175w bulbs) outperformed many 250w SE bulbs on same type ballast (including Hamilton 14k, Radium 20k, Coralvue 10k, XM 15k and 20k to name a few). some by a damn lot too.
its verified fact the Iwasaki 175w 15k bulb on an electronic ballast has PAR right in line with a good 250w SE bulb (of the 90+ 250w SE and DE bulbs tested on an ice cap ellectronic ballast it outperformed over 70 of them using the same brand ballast). Its an anomaly but the point is simple: if you arent using a good performing 250W bulbs you could likely get the same results using 175w and being selective on the bulbs you use. and we havent even touched reflectors (ie 250w SE on a $50 batwing vs a 175w SE on a Lumenarc).
Its like T5s, you can easily put together a 216w T5 system that will outperform your "average" performing 250w halide but I would never say a 216w T5 set up will outperform the best performing 250w halide set up.
 
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