New Fish Keep Dying

[shawnriv]

Hi Everyone,
I've had my 48 gallon bow tank up and running for about seven months now. I have two clownfish that have been in the tank since day one, a bubble tip sea anemone, one scarlet skunk, and a diamond goby. My water parameters are where they should be. I have about 40lbs of live rock, sand, and hang on back filter. I do not have a sump and protein skimmer. Over the past month I've attempted to add a small yellow tang (that I planned on moving to a 120 once I get all the equipment), royal gramma, and two chromis. I purchased the tang and gramma together and both died after four days. I brought them back to my LFS and there were no signs of Ich. As you can imagine, losing $65 worth of fish in four days is truly upsetting. But after about two weeks...about three days ago, I purchased two small chromis...only one is now alive. I looked in my tank this morning and the other one is not eating and strangely swimming vertically. I've had my LFS test out samples and they say my parameters are where they should be. I am very frustrated and ready to waive the white flag. Any recommendations?
Thanks in advance.

 

[tonysi]

What exactly are the tests showing? Maybe the new fish your lfs is selling you are sick... Do you qt your fish as well?

 

[shawnriv]

My LFS is very reputable and has been in business for over twenty years. The manager gets a new shipment in every week and the store is immaculate. My water parameters are:
ph 8.2
Amonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
I fully accumulate my fish using the drip method but I have never quarantined my fish. I've read articles where it's not completely recommended.

 

[tonysi]

A lot of times fish don't show signs of being sick until after a couple of weeks of being purchased by a lfs, and then the customer. May I ask what you are feeding the fish?

 

[shawnriv]

I actually just went to another LFS and omg it was amazing there...but that's besides the point. I had my water checked and this was their results:
PH: 8.0
KH: 150
NH3: 0
NO2: 0
NO3: 0
Salinity: 1.025
I am feeding them a mixture of frozen brine shrimp, garlic marine flakes, and new life spectrum.

 

[jay0705]

Qt your fish!! Trust me on this. Its a pain in the butt, but worth it. Yes it can stress fish bc generally qt tanks are smaller. But the helpfulness over comes any down falls. If u get a thin fish, sick fish, shy fish. Its alot easier to feed, treat and condition them b4 they go into a big display. W other fish that may or may not play nice lol

 

[shawnriv]

I think I may need to start. It's so aggravating that I lose new fish. How long would you keep a fish in quarantine? Would I just put them in a tank with only water? No sand and no rock? Just a heater and do a couple water changes per week?

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnriv http:///t/397252/new-fish-keep-dying#post_3540400
I think I may need to start. It's so aggravating that I lose new fish. How long would you keep a fish in quarantine? Would I just put them in a tank with only water? No sand and no rock? Just a heater and do a couple water changes per week?


Hi,
I agree a quarantine is an excellent idea. Purchasing your fish from saltwaterfish.com also gives you a 14 day guarantee...worth it's weight in gold. If a fish survives 14 days, it should make it in the display... That way you are not taking such a big risk on losing the new fish.


[*]10g or 20g tank.
[*]HOB little filter.
[*]No sand, but put a towel under the tank or paint the outside of the bottom black.
[*]Nano power head or just an air line (no stone)
[*]A piece of PVC pipe or plastic décor so the fish will feel secure with a hiding place....also good for attaching the airline via rubber-band so it stays in the bottom on the tank.
Quarantine new fish for 4 weeks.
Macroalgae will help a great deal to keep the parameters in check and the tanks water pristine. Caulerpa Prolifera is a good choice. Check out "Golf Coast Ecosystems"
Ammonia test strips for quick reference...any reading on ammonia, do a water change. Test morning and evening.
Have new mixed saltwater ready to use in case of needing to do an emergency WC.


After all of that...you should only be adding one fish at a time, or at the most two very little ones. Perhaps the first additions were too many too soon. Chromis have a hard time adjusting, and often die one at a time. You might try a hardier fish. A yellow tang is too much for a 48g tank, and removing a fish later is a bigger pain then you may realize. It not only stresses out the fish you are trying to catch, but all the other fish in the tank as well...99% of the time you will have to remove every rock to get to it. save yourself some headaches...always purchase a fish that is able to stay in the tank when they are adult in size.

A dwarf angelfish would be very well suited for your 48g, as an added bonus, they like to nip at algae, even hair algae. They are active swimmers and like to swim in and out of the rockwork, and really beautiful in color...the only drawback...you can only have one per tank.

 

[shawnriv]

Hi,
I agree a quarantine is an excellent idea. Purchasing your fish from saltwaterfish.com also gives you a 14 day guarantee...worth it's weight in gold. If a fish survives 14 days, it should make it in the display... That way you are not taking such a big risk on losing the new fish.
[*]10g or 20g tank.[*]HOB little filter.[*]No sand, but put a towel under the tank or paint the outside of the bottom black.[*]Nano power head or just an air line (no stone)[*]A piece of PVC pipe or plastic décor so the fish will feel secure with a hiding place....also good for attaching the airline via rubber-band so it stays in the bottom on the tank.Quarantine new fish for 4 weeks.Macroalgae will help a great deal to keep the parameters in check and the tanks water pristine. Caulerpa Prolifera is a good choice. Check out "Golf Coast Ecosystems"Ammonia test strips for quick reference...any reading on ammonia, do a water change. Test morning and evening.Have new mixed saltwater ready to use in case of needing to do an emergency WC.
After all of that...you should only be adding one fish at a time, or at the most two very little ones. Perhaps the first additions were too many too soon. Chromis have a hard time adjusting, and often die one at a time. You might try a hardier fish. A yellow tang is too much for a 48g tank, and removing a fish later is a bigger pain then you may realize. It not only stresses out the fish you are trying to catch, but all the other fish in the tank as well...99% of the time you will have to remove every rock to get to it. save yourself some headaches...always purchase a fish that is able to stay in the tank when they are adult in size.
A dwarf angelfish would be very well suited for your 48g, as an added bonus, they like to nip at algae, even hair algae. They are active swimmers  and like to swim in and out of the rockwork, and really beautiful in color...the only drawback...you can only have one per tank.
Thanks for the great response. He reason I've never ordered from saltwaterfish.com because shipping is so high. I've wanted to order from them since they offer first time customers free shipping if the order is over $99 but that would mean more than one fish. So how would I make that possible since I should only add one fish at a time?

 

[jay0705]

I use a hob filter in my main tank. I use filter cartridges in that. when I need to qt I take one out and put it in the qt. There loaded w bacteria which also helps keep the qt water stable

 

[silverado61]

Saltwaterfish.com sells more than just fish. Order some cuc or a piece of equipment you might need or a marine test kit so you can test your own water. Something that will bring the cost to $99.

Just a thought, sorry not a good thought, but if it was a disease that took out your fish, it's probably in your display now.

A QT is always the safest, most cost effective way to go in the long run. Take Flower and jays advice and run with it.

To recap Flower and jays advice, as far as the HOB for the QT goes, buy one that takes the same filter as the one on your display tank. That way when you take a filter from the display, you don't just have a filter bag floating in the QT. It'll be working for you to filter the water also.

 

[shawnriv]

Great recommendations everyone. If I do have whatever illness is in my tank, how do I remove it? Another idea I had was adding a hob protein skimmer to the display tank. I imagine I would remove the regular filter that's already on the tank and replace it with the skimmer, correct?

 

[jay0705]

Thanks silver. Thats what I meant lol I have to proof read b4 I post lol
In regard to ordering on here, can the order be mixed? Live fish, cuc, test kit? I know some places the shipping is different depending on the items ordered.

 

[silverado61]

Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnriv http:///t/397252/new-fish-keep-dying#post_3540414
Great recommendations everyone. If I do have whatever illness is in my tank, how do I remove it? Another idea I had was adding a hob protein skimmer to the display tank. I imagine I would remove the regular filter that's already on the tank and replace it with the skimmer, correct?
Although they do help each other somewhat, HOB's and skimmers serve two different purposes. Flower or jay would be able to explain what the differences are better than me.

As far as what illness that might be in your tank now? That would be a question for Beth. Our resident fish disease specialist.

 

[jay0705]

I don't use a skimmer lol sooo. I use the hob bc of ease of use. It gives u mechanical and bio filtration. W the added benefit of live rock in my tank it works fine for me. Now if your looking to go reef. A skimmer is useful, for lack of As better term it removes gunk from the water that corals and such are effected by more so then fish.

 

[silverado61]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jay0705 http:///t/397252/new-fish-keep-dying#post_3540415
Thanks silver. Thats what I meant lol I have to proof read b4 I post lol
In regard to ordering on here, can the order be mixed? Live fish, cuc, test kit? I know some places the shipping is different depending on the items ordered.
See now that I don't know. I have three different local lfs to choose from within a 10 mile drive and as far as equipment goes, I have a major online store 1/2m away from my house that I order online an go pickup the same day.

Sorry saltwaterfish.com Your good but even you can't compete with that unless you want to give me life time free shipping and next day air delivery. lol

 

[silverado61]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jay0705 http:///t/397252/new-fish-keep-dying#post_3540419
I don't use a skimmer lol sooo. I use the hob bc of ease of use. It gives u mechanical and bio filtration. W the added benefit of live rock in my tank it works fine for me. Now if your looking to go reef. A skimmer is useful, for lack of As better term it removes gunk from the water that corals and such are effected by more so then fish.
I was having a little trouble keeping my Nitrites at absolute zero and Nitrates at acceptable levels even with water changes so I put a skimmer on-line and within two weeks... no traces of either one.

But that's with a 36g so it was a little tougher.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jay0705 http:///t/397252/new-fish-keep-dying#post_3540415
Thanks silver. Thats what I meant lol I have to proof read b4 I post lol
In regard to ordering on here, can the order be mixed? Live fish, cuc, test kit? I know some places the shipping is different depending on the items ordered.


Hi,

Live fish are shipped to arrive over night within 24 hours...other stuff gets sent by ground mail and takes longer. Any on-line place will tell you what is charged for shipping...the overnight for fish, you pay out big time. Some places give free shipping if you order enough.

Oh and just so you guys know...nitrates don't bother fish into the 100s. Over 40 will kill inverts, and as a rule over 20 will kill corals. Some corals must have an absolute 0 reading, such as SPS, some corals like a little nitrates, such as Xenia or the elegance coral. I had my reef for years (no SPS) and my nitrates were always between 5 and 10. I wouldn't stress out because of nitrates that won't read a perfect 0.

 

[silverado61]

You forget Flower. All I had were inverts. lol

 

[shawnriv]

Come to find out...my clowns have brooklynella. My LFS said they recommend picking up a quarantine tank (I got a 10 gallon for $10) and quarantine them both using cupramine. I am going to their store tomorrow to pick it up. He thinks that is the reason all my fish died (except the clowns) and all the invertebrates lived. I'll have to see what happens.