New Hobbyist: 20 Gallon?

[The BookWorm]

It's possible that I could find a different space, but currently, that is pretty much the only place. It's about 30" deep and 24" across, not entirely sure on height.
But I am going to be very patient with this and take as much time as I need to do it right.

 

[seecrabrun]

Height is a big concern if it is something like a shelf, and not open air space. You need good air circulation above the tank for gas exchange.

Sometimes I have to even open a window to make sure mine is getting enough fresh air and I literally have nothing but the light fixture above mine. A lack of proper circulation on the water surface or a lack of oxygen rich air can cause spikes or drops in the water that would be harmful to corals and livestock.

I don't have a sump or a skimmer though, which can help with said problem. I'm working on them but... budgets!

 

[silverado61]

Totally agree on no lid. Try using a piece of egg crate incase any of your critters decide to become carpet divers.

 

[The BookWorm]

How would I use the egg crate to keep them from jumping?

 

[silverado61]

Egg Crate: A light diffuser panel for a suspended ceiling from Home Depot, Menards or Lowes. Just cut it to fit the top of your tank.

 

[flower]

Hi, a space that tight won't do. You need to be able to maintain the tank, you need space in the back, at the sides, and enough room to work over the top of your tank, and if there is a cabinet or ceiling...salt creep could do some damage. In wall set-ups have a room in the back hiding all that equipment, and the tank is open completely except for the lighting. So it only LOOKS like it is in a tight space, it's an illusion.

You asked: How would you go about building an automatic top off system? I've heard about them, by never understood how it worked.

An ATO works just like your toilet inside, when the water drops a sensor trips, and it is automatically refilled. I used the JBJ ATO (automatic top off), and it worked great...$99.00

HOWEVER, unlike the toilet you should not hook up an ATO to a direct water line, any little leak (equipment is famous for that) and you will be filling your saltwater tank with freshwater until everything is dead. That means you need a holding tub, but you will still have to top off the holding tub, so it won't save you any work whatsoever, and it will take up even more space. The only use for an ATO is if you have corals, and you want the SG to be always stable...the SG goes higher as the water evaporates (water evaporates, but the slat does not), an ATO adds the water back in as soon as it evaporates so the SG won't rise.

 

[silverado61]

You only have to "top off" a holding tub when it runs low on water. Really low. A 5g bucket would supply a 10g tank for over a week. Maintaining a constant saltwater level in the tank. No salinity fluxuations in the tank. In a 10g that's hard to do by hand. You'd have to top off by hand 4-5 times a day to get the same precision as an ato.

 

[The BookWorm]

Flower, I'm currently working on getting a larger space for a larger tank. And yes, I would not hook it up to a direct water line. But, even having to top off the holding tub, I wouldn't have to fill it up as often as I would the tank, and I wouldn't have to worry about the SG fluctuating.

 

[The BookWorm]

What filtration should I get?

 

[The BookWorm]

And is it best if all the fish and corals originate from the same area? Would it make the tank more natural or anything like that?

 

[flower]

Flower, I'm currently working on getting a larger space for a larger tank. And yes, I would not hook it up to a direct water line. But, even having to top off the holding tub, I wouldn't have to fill it up as often as I would the tank, and I wouldn't have to worry about the SG fluctuating.

That's fine if you want to get an ATO, nothing wrong with that at all.
Depending on how much your water evaporates... I personally usually top off a half gallon every other day. Considering the amount of space a tub of freshwater takes up, and the hassle of making sure it does not get contaminated by pet hair, or stuff falling into it (problems I encountered). I even put a makeshift egg crate lid on my ATO water tub, and covered that with a table cloth (it was right in my living room)...I then had to concern myself with people who thought it was a table, putting their coffee mugs, and other things on it... There are pro's and con's to everything, do what suites you best.

As for filtration, anything can be used EXCEPT the under gravel type. Each have their pro's and con's
Sump...Pro: adds more water volume and a place to hide equipment... Con: Loud, and cleaning it up is not easy
HOB...Pro: Very easy to maintain, just pop in a cartridge and it's ready to go... Con: Salt creep is every where because it splashes
Canister...Pro: runs silent, spray bar adds surface movement, and it hold lots of different media...Con: It's easy to forget and not service as it should be, causing nitrate problems.

Last: How you stock your tank is entirely up to you. Some people do make sure all the critters are from a certain area, some like an all aggressive tank...some like a community; everyone gets along kind of tank, and some like a species only type, such as seahorses.

However you decide to stock it, make sure each critter can get along with what is already in the tank. What you add will affect what you can ad later on. Make sure the chosen critter has the needed care (some critters need a certain temperature, or lighting and some need a certain food). So you must research each and every addition to your tank. Don't allow friends or family to "GIFT" a critter to you, if they want to give you a critter, make sure they allow you to be the one to select it.

Also, quarantine new fish for at least 4 weeks, this will not only save the critters already established in the tank from disease or parasites, but it also prevents you from adding too many fish too fast, the #1 reason for beginners to fail.

 

[snakeblitz33]

If they only have space for one tank, I'm guessing that they won't have space for a quarantine...

I would avoid a canister filter at all costs. More aquarists come on here with problems caused by their canister filters then I would like to see. They forget to clean them and replace the materials inside... and it all causes problems, even crashing some tanks. I would look into alternatives, like sumps and hang on back equipment.


An auto top off is not entirely necessary - it's just convenient. I'd start by taking responsibility to top off the tank every day and watching the system and make observations. Topping off every day won't hurt anything - having an ATO is very convenient but unnecessary.

 

[flower]

If they only have space for one tank, I'm guessing that they won't have space for a quarantine...

I would avoid a canister filter at all costs. More aquarists come on here with problems caused by their canister filters then I would like to see. They forget to clean them and replace the materials inside... and it all causes problems, even crashing some tanks. I would look into alternatives, like sumps and hang on back equipment..

...I used a canister filter for 14 years on my SW reef tank, and over 30 on my freshwater tanks. In all those years, I had one canister leak at the seal. That was it. I made a little note with the date of the last cleaning, and attached it to the hose on the filter. With my HOB that I'm using now, the salt creep is terrible, but it's the easiest for me to swap out media. My sump had good memories attached to it because the people here built it for me. My tank wasn't drilled, and the lifter pump failed and caused a flood more times then I can count...the last straw was when I FINALLY got the lifter pump problems licked, the sump itself sprung a leak. I mean so bad that now I'm fighting black mold in the carpet.

You berate canisters every chance you get. I think it's just wrong to refuse to use a certain piece of equipment because people forget to maintain it properly. Pick a day of the month to swap the media, how hard it that? The filter works great, and a spray bar frees up a power head to be pointed at the rocks to clear it, instead of wasted to just stir the surface.

The only valid way a canister could cause a crash is if the power is off for over 24 hours, and when the power is restored the water inside the canister is stagnant, and sent into the tank. The media stuff not being changed won't cause a crash, at worst it would make nitrates climb, although that never happened to me, and I would go sometimes (earlier years) two to three months without changing the media.

 

[jay0705]

To put my .02 in. I know myself, I stayed away from canisters bc of so many stories of leaking seals and cleaning being a chore. Maybe there made better now, but it seems like the newer stuff is the worse its getting

 

[flower]

To put my .02 in. I know myself, I stayed away from canisters bc of so many stories of leaking seals and cleaning being a chore. Maybe there made better now, but it seems like the newer stuff is the worse its getting

I must agree with you on new cheaper stuff, but the new canisters...they are much easier to maintain then the old ones, where I had to pry the lid to break the vacuum seal to get it open...not to mention I had carry the thing and all the hoses to the sink. Now you shut off the valves, leave the hoses where they are and only mess with the canister. If you have your tank in the bedroom or the living room where you are trying to sleep or watch TV, the silent running canister is easier then a sump that sounds like running water 24/7

However, if you live in an area where the power is lost when there are any storms for more then 24 hours at a time, I would certainly pass on a canister filter. The stagnant water is deadly.

All of the filters mentioned have pro's and con's...we must all look at our personal needs and go from there. When I first came on this site, people insisted you couldn't keep a reef with a canister filter. So I just didn't mention my canisters, but now I stick up for them. In the end, it was the heater that killed my corals, the canister never caused so much as a hiccup.

 

[jay0705]

Hmm, I may look into that. I have my 56 in my bed room and my wife complained the hob was loud. What brand do u reccomend?

 

[snakeblitz33]

Flower, show me an above average tank of the month on any forum that runs a canister as the sole mechanical and chemical filter. I have yet to find one.

If your HOB filter is loud, your water level is probably too low.

 

[jay0705]

Its not iam a bit anal w water levels. It has this thing that is supp to add oxygen, its sort of screen like that causes more bubbles as it flows in

 

[flower]

Flower, show me an above average tank of the month on any forum that runs a canister as the sole mechanical and chemical filter. I have yet to find one.

If your HOB filter is loud, your water level is probably too low.

My HOB is loud too, but the I have the fluval C4 brand, and it does sit higher then I think it should...I do believe they want it to splash and make bubbles to add oxygen, it's the design of the newer ones I think.

I wish I could load some pictures, my reef wasn't tank of the month perhaps, but it looked pretty dang good. Filtration does not a tank make. However keeping up with water changes, filters on the RO unit, and making sure the parameters are exact will. There are tanks of the month folks who only have a sump without any filter, just running a skimmer, so what's you point? So one the opposite end...show me a tank that had high nitrates and crashed solely because they ran a canister filter....

Since you said what you did...I went on a search to find images of reef tanks run on a canister filter:

 

[seecrabrun]

I am right this moment upgrading my 10g to a 20H, but until last week I can speak from about 8 months of 10g maintenance experience.

I have a HOB refugium and filter on mine.

In the refugium I have macro algae and some live rock rubble, as well as a very small dwarf cerith or two to help clean the walls and rock rubble.
In the HOB filter I did not have the media it came with but instead had some filter replacement cut to size and also live rock rubble. No my filter was not clear, but the top had slots in it for air circulation that let in just enough light that the rock rubble kept a good coverage of coraline.

I had the 2 HOBs to help filter, but also to increase the volume of water in the entire system. With such a tiny system it can crash really fast and upping the volume any way you can is a good idea. It wasn't a lot, but it was more than nothing and allowed for different ways life could be used to filter the system- live rock and macro algae.

You have to realize as well that although the tank is 10 gallons, it does not hold 10 gallons of water after setup. With the water displaced by the rock and sand, my 10g only held between 6-7 gallons of actual water. Adding the HOBs brought it up to a solid 7, but still that isn't very much.

Getting good water movement is difficult in such a tank as well and because of that I had some weird trouble with black growth on the rocks. After playing around with a few power heads I was able to use the little bit of flow from my 2 HOBs(hanging them on the actual sides opposite each other instead of on the back) plus a small power head to get the right kind of circulation.

I had to kill my tank and start over at one point though, early on and before I figured out the HOBs/flow/etc, which here is why I'd definitely suggest NOT to cycle your tank using a live fish. I had to wash and scrub everything in the tank with vinegar water and let it air dry before reassembling it and starting over.

A 10 gallon has been a challenge, but I've enjoyed learning it. I feel like I've learned way more about this hobby from my 10g than my 29g. After my 29g was set up, it's been a breeze to keep it.