New (to me) acrylic 120 gal, need help!

jonbrekke

jonbrekke

New Member
Hey all, its been a while since I posted last. Nice to see you all again! Anyways, I just picked up an acrylic reef ready 120 gallon (24" D x 24" T x 48" long) center overflow. It came with a stand, a life reef wet/dry, a mag drive 12 pump, and a few plumbing parts which I think I will replace just 'cause they're old. I am definitely wanting to do some sort of reef tank out of this one, and being acrylic, drilling holes should be a breeze. I would like to do mostly softies, maybe a few hard corals, and I believe that a 25-30x turnover rate would do it. I do plan on running a closed loop. I have quite a few questions, so I guess I'll start now.
1. Is a 25-30x turnover rate enough?
2. What size pump should I use for the CL?
3. Should I keep the wet/dry, replace or add a refugium?
4.Does anyone have a diagram on a 120 for plumbing a CL? Photos, supply list?
5. What size pipe do I need to use for the whole system?
6. How many bulkheads do I need for the return and drain for the CL?
7. How much flow should I be looking for through the wet/dry?
8. If I add a fuge, I will have room for an internal skimmer, if not I will have to run an external one. Which should I look for?
9. If I add a fuge, what size should I make it?
I will be building this project over the course of a few months, as I do not want to rush anything like I did in my 55, where I ended up wishing that I had more flow.
The stand is 19"D x 47" L x 29" tall inside. The tank will be backing up to a full basement, so I could put some of the equipment back there, but I will be experiencing some head loss due to height.

Thanks all in advance. I have been searching for days now, and cannot come up with any definitive answers
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonbrekke http:///t/395834/new-to-me-acrylic-120-gal-need-help#post_3525106
1. Is a 25-30x turnover rate enough? Should be plenty for a 120g softie tank
2. What size pump should I use for the CL? Maybe look into other options? A couple of MP10's would be fine, or a couple of Jebao WP25's would be great as well. But, if you are dead set on a closed loop system, you should go with a reeflo dart/barracuda.
3. Should I keep the wet/dry, replace or add a refugium? I think that you should actually go with a 40g breeder and build your own sump. That sump that you currently have is great for fish only aquariums, but it doesn't really give a lot of room for additional equipment necessary to run a reef, such as an in-sump skimmer. Refugiums are great! You could add a fuge to the 40g breeder without any problems. A 40g breeder will also fit the dimensions of the underneath of your tank with about a foot on the end to spare for an electrical system.
4.Does anyone have a diagram on a 120 for plumbing a CL? Photos, supply list? I like the fact that you are willing to DIY. Have you ever worked with PVC plumbing before? Look on lionfishlair dot com for some closed loop system tips and tricks. I have done a few closed loops in my day as well... but I am sure there are already photos out there that can help you.
5. What size pipe do I need to use for the whole system? It really depends on what size the inlets and outlets are on your pumps. A closed loop pump like the reeflo dart is a 2" inlet and a 1.5" outlet I THINK. A mag drive 12 pump as a return pump is I THINK 1". You just have to pay attention to your inlet and outlet sizes.
6. How many bulkheads do I need for the return and drain for the CL? Closed loops generally have one drain hole that connects directly to the inlet of the pump and as many return lines as needed,... however, consider the structural integrity of the tank when making it into swiss cheese. Also, Since you are doing this from scratch, I recommend using Schedule 80 PVC bulkheads instead of the usual schedule 40. The beefier bulkheads will give more support to the structure of the tank. Another thing to consider is where you want your flow to be when using a closed loop system.
7. How much flow should I be looking for through the wet/dry? Instead of answering this question, I'll answer it using a 40g breeder tank. You have a 120g tank, so I recommend using a pump that pushes at minimum 1200gph at zero foot of head. My "go to" pump is a Mag Drive. But, there are also lots of other brand name pumps out there to look at. Tunze and Eheim comes to mind. I'm also currently running a Quiet One on my tank.
8. If I add a fuge, I will have room for an internal skimmer, if not I will have to run an external one. Which should I look for? If you go with the 40g breeder, like I suggest you do, you will have plenty of space for an internal skimmer. For your size tank, there are many Reef Octopus brand skimmers in your tanks range that would do well.
9. If I add a fuge, what size should I make it? A fuge is great, and can be as large as you can make it, but a 10g section of the sump would be plenty for nitrate and phosphate control and removal.
The stand is 19"D x 47" L x 29" tall inside. The tank will be backing up to a full basement, so I could put some of the equipment back there, but I will be experiencing some head loss due to height. This is true, but for the most part, you can and will be able to fit most of your equipment inside the sump and underneath the tank that you won't need the extra room.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Some good information put out there.....The only thing I will add just because you drill holes in acrylic doesn't necessarily compromise the integrity. Remember your installing a bulkhead so theoretically your reinforcing where you drilled the tank.
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/395834/new-to-me-acrylic-120-gal-need-help#post_3525137
Some good information put out there.....The only thing I will add just because you drill holes in acrylic doesn't necessarily compromise the integrity. Remember your installing a bulkhead so theoretically your reinforcing where you drilled the tank.
Still though, when you put holes into a tank, there are more seals and more potential leaks if not sealed correctly. I don't know how much swiss cheese I would make. Though, I would say that one drain is sufficient - along with two to three returns.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
True any hole is a potential for a leak but using good products might negate some risk. I was referring more about reassuring the area that was drilles not leaking.
You are correct 1 drain would suffice. You want to be able to flood the pump.
 
jonbrekke

jonbrekke

New Member
The stand is also acrylic, so I don't know about fitting a 40g breeder in it, even from behind. I do have a 20 gal fuge that I am currently using in my 55, so what about doing a small fuge, a wet dry, and a closed loop? Not trying to argue, just wondering. I dont want a bunch of ugly powerheads in the tank, so I would like to do a closed loop. Where about in the tank should I place the bulkheads? A diagram would help.
 
jonbrekke

jonbrekke

New Member
Also, I was thinking about using a scwd, to add more of a current to the flow. So I was thinking about 4 returns, and have the opposing corners of the back (top left, bottom right) then (bottom left, top right) switching. or should I do opposite sides (both left then both right)? Has anyone used the rotating flow diverters from hydor? I would have to have a bunch to handle the flow, or would loc-line be better. I am really familiar with gluing joints, so that's not a problem, just need some help in design.
I found a great deal on a mag drive 18 on ebay, new in box. so we can start planning on using a mag drive 12 for the return from the sump and the mag drive 18 for the closed loop. so right there, even with head loss, i should be right at 3000 gph minus plumbing right?
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Something you might want to look at or consider is the Reeflo Blowhole for your return. Even IMHO a consideration for a CL. I feel this might be a better choice for a CL rather than a SCWD. Long term they've always have had poor longevity. That is proven they don't hold up well.
Mags are a decent pump but my thinking is heat added to the system. Heat can be problematic and Snake will attest to rhe issue first hand. For a CL definitely wouldn't be my choice. Pond for pound and efficiency the WaterBlaster pump is a way better choice.
Loc line I will be short and sweet. Novel concept but way to much restriction. On a CL I'd say no.
 
jmbr0828

jmbr0828

Member
Would a reeflo hammerhead be too much for this tank? I calculated about 45 to 47x turn over between the two pumps. Will this much flow be too much for softies? What kind of outlets should I use for the return? I'm thinking of doing 8 returns, and two drains, so add not to create to much suction at one point, allowing fish and inverts a chance to get away. With the biggest grate/screens i can find. I will draw a picture when i get back home of the layout i have pictured.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmbr0828 http:///t/395834/new-to-me-acrylic-120-gal-need-help#post_3525372
Would a reeflo hammerhead be too much for this tank? Yes way to much pump for the tank....Most go by the rule or figure of 3x - 5x turnover rate through there sump. All supplemental flow would come from either your CL system or powerheads..... I calculated about 45 to 47x turn over between the two pumps. Will this much flow be too much for softies? What kind of outlets should I use for the return? You can use anything you choose for your outlets or returns....I'm just saying using loc line is restrictive on a CL system.. I'm thinking of doing 8 returns, and two drains, so add not to create to much suction at one point, allowing fish and inverts a chance to get away. With the biggest grate/screens i can find. I will draw a picture when i get back home of the layout i have pictured. I've always used a 2" drain for my CL and have never had any issues with something (fish wise) being sucked to the grating......
 
S

saxman

Guest
Here are some pix of our 48" 100 gal that runs a 3-return closed loop. There's a single 1" ID spa screen for the intake, and I'm using an Iwaki MD-40RLT to drive it. The main returns alternate thru a SCWD. The thing I like most about this setup is the external overflow...I love not having a box inside the tank. The main return is a LG 4-MDQX-SC.



If you'd like to see our 210 gal peninsula that has four CL returns in its bottom, LMK.
 
jmbr0828

jmbr0828

Member
Would a reeflo hammerhead be too much for this tank? I calculated about 45 to 47x turn over between the two pumps. Will this much flow be too much for softies? What kind of outlets should I use for the return? I'm thinking of doing 8 returns, and two drains, so add not to create to much suction at one point, allowing fish and inverts a chance to get away. With the biggest grate/screens i can find. I will draw a picture when i get back home of the layout i have pictured.
 
jmbr0828

jmbr0828

Member
I checked today, and a 40 breeder will not fit under the stand without modifying the stand, which is made from acrylic.
 
jonbrekke

jonbrekke

New Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/395834/new-to-me-acrylic-120-gal-need-help#post_3525381Yes way to much pump for the tank....Most go by the rule or figure of 3x - 5x turnover rate through there sump. All supplemental flow would come from either your CL system or powerheads.....
No, I am thinking of using the mag 12 that came with my tank for the sump, and using the hammerhead for the closed loop. What other options are there for directing the flow besides loc line?
 
jonbrekke

jonbrekke

New Member
I got a few sketches done, granted i will not be using that may tees in the return line, but this is kind of the idea. I am most likely going to go with the 4-way valve for switching between the two sides, does anyone have any suggestions on which ports to switch between? I also need to know what size plumbing to use, as the hammerhead has both 1-1/2 inlet and outlet.


 
S

saxman

Guest
I'm running an older ReeFlo Dart on the 4-return CL for our 210 gal and it's plenty unless you're looking for crazy flow...I even have a couple of the returns valved-down to "match" the flow better. This CL runs thru a Ocean's Motion 4-way (2 returns on at a time), and the returns come up thru the tank bottom in a semi zig-zag pattern. It uses a single 1.5" spa screen as a drain (blue dot in the middle dwg).
 
jonbrekke

jonbrekke

New Member

How would running something like this work, having 2 SCWDs in line? I will be pushing about 3000 gph through the hammerhead after head loss, is this going to be too much? I cant really afford the Oceans Motions 4 way valve at $400.
 
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