New way to cure ich?

[chrgerondavins]

So I met up with an old reefer, who told me never to use copper or hyposalinity ever again unless a fish is BADLY infected.
I was told to cure ich, feed the fish copious amounts of healthy frozen foods. Allow them to stuff their faces, add garlic. He has over 30 tanks, none of which have ich.
On a side note, he told me NEVER to quarantine fish, as all fish have some ich, and as long as their immune system is strong, it will never take over. He said any fish with noticable ich has a weakened immune system, and never to buy it. He also went on to tell me not to drip acclimate SW fish and I don't remember why he said not to, he said it can either be really good, or really bad, something about the ph I think? I am still drip acclimating, and I have a QT tank, but he swears by his ich treatment, says its NOT necessary to treat fish for ich unless it gets very serious. Sometimes fish die of ich because they are weakened already, but he hasnt lost one of his 100s in years to ich!

 

[nina&noah]

That is interesting. I was told something similar. Has anyone on this board actually done this?

Interesting conversation.

 

[1journeyman]

Ich is a parasite with a known life cycle.
At the point where someone says "all fish have some ich" smile, nod your head, and run for the door.
This is completely, without any doubt, 100% false. All fish DO NOT have Ich.
Ammonia becomes more toxic as pH increases. When you open a bag with a fish in it the water in the bag becomes more oxygenated and raises the pH. This can make the Ammonia more toxic. Still, you can tweak the acclimation drip process without risking osmotic shock.
Studies have shown fresh garlic (in obsurdly high amounts) can kill FW ich (according to Fenner's FAQ on treatment). No such studies that I am aware of has shown the same results in SW fish.
Even if Garlic does boost an immune system in a fish it WILL NOT kill the various stages of ich in a tank. You would have to show that garlic makes a fish 100% immune to external parasites; and since many folks on here have tried and failed to treat ich with garlic I think we can assume this is not the case.

 

[florida joe]

Holy cow I think I talked to the same guy, I wanted to ask him some more questions so I followed him and he walked into a LFS. Looking thought the window I saw the manager give him some money pat him on the back and tell him "see you tomorrow"

 

[chrgerondavins]

he said that ich is almost always present in a fish's gills, and if they are fed properly, they can fight off the ich parasite, or it cannot attach. Also some rambling on about the parasite dying on the fish?
Even if he isn't completely correct, it is very interesting to see such a successful reefer with such different views.
I am not saying anybody is wrong, I've used copper and hyposalinity with great success, just if it is possible to boost their immune system enough to keep it at bay for years, awesome!
This isn't the first time I've heard this either, a LFS in the area who specializes in reef and sw fish says that's how they treat. Overfeed the fish time and time again, keep nitrates low to keep stress levels down (hard to do both, but they do it with hard work) and not a touch of ich shown on any fish. And they're right, nothing. Buy fish there ALL the time, no ich from their fish, EVER.

 

[crimzy]

Originally Posted by ChrgerOnDavins
http:///forum/post/2533220
So I met up with an old reefer, who told me never to use copper or hyposalinity ever again unless a fish is BADLY infected.
I was told to cure ich, feed the fish copious amounts of healthy frozen foods. Allow them to stuff their faces, add garlic. He has over 30 tanks, none of which have ich.
On a side note, he told me NEVER to quarantine fish, as all fish have some ich, and as long as their immune system is strong, it will never take over. He said any fish with noticable ich has a weakened immune system, and never to buy it. He also went on to tell me not to drip acclimate SW fish and I don't remember why he said not to, he said it can either be really good, or really bad, something about the ph I think? I am still drip acclimating, and I have a QT tank, but he swears by his ich treatment, says its NOT necessary to treat fish for ich unless it gets very serious. Sometimes fish die of ich because they are weakened already, but he hasnt lost one of his 100s in years to ich!
Much of what you were told is untrue. Specifically, as Journey stated, the idea that ich is always present is an urban legend. That's what people used to think because ich would pop up randomly without new additions.
However he is right that ich can be relatively easily treated and won't kill most fish. Feeding well and adding garlic can help to treat the symptoms of ich but will not kill the parasite. I don't know if I'd go so far as to suggest that the fish get "stuff their faces" because increased feeding will reduce water quality if it does not accompany increased water changes.

 

[chrgerondavins]

Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2533264
Holy cow I think I talked to the same guy, I wanted to ask him some more questions so I followed him and he walked into a LFS. Looking thought the window I saw the manager give him some money pat him on the back and tell him "see you tomorrow"
thank you, detective.

 

[florida joe]

Come on guy you keep saying "such a successful reef keeper" by whose standards and hear say does not hold enough water to fill a nano tank. You are here to learn,teach and to understand as we all are. Do your own research and come to your own concussions. Do you think he is giving you valid info
Brought to you by magnum PI and of course this is just IMO

 

[chrgerondavins]

Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2533378
Come on guy you keep saying "such a successful reef keeper" by whose standards and hear say does not hold enough water to fill a nano tank. You are here to learn,teach and to understand as we all are. Do your own research and come to your own concussions. Do you think he is giving you valid info
Brought to you by magnum PI and of course this is just IMO
Maybe he is mentally challenged, but hard to argue with results is all I was thinking.

 

[al mc]

Years ago, before antibiotics and better understanding that bacteria caused infections, many prominent and 'successful' surgeons were happy when they saw 'pus' oozing out of an incision. This was their way of figuring out if someone would survive after surgery. Today, one could be in legal trouble if that were the standard of care. 'Pus' was actually called 'laudible pus' in those days. Turns out that the patients who showed no 'pus' died of acute septicemia and never had time to live long enough to have an infection show up at their incision.
The point...I know...long time coming.....
Science/Medicine is constantly changing..mostly for the better. I'll go with the science behind understanding the Ich parasite and hypo/copper over
a chance encounter with someone who IMO is just lucky if he is having tremendous success.

 

[grim_reefer]

i love the great ich controversey.. but i wont feed along this time..
ich is only present after it is introduced.. if you have never seen ich in your tank, it doesnt mean its not there.. close inspection of livestock is a must in this hobby!! too many vendors dont help to get rid of this once and for all, as they want to get the fish in and sell them as fast as possible..
QT is your best bet to never introduce it to your aquarium..
feeding garlic is far from a "new way to treat it".. you will be lucky if the fish eats alot in the first place when sick.. and if you never get rid of the ich, it will always be there.. somewhere

 

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by Grim_Reefer
http:///forum/post/2533557
i love the great ich controversey.. but i wont feed along this time..
ich is only present after it is introduced.. if you have never seen ich in your tank, it doesnt mean its not there.. close inspection of livestock is a must in this hobby!! too many vendors dont help to get rid of this once and for all, as they want to get the fish in and sell them as fast as possible..
QT is your best bet to never introduce it to your aquarium..
feeding garlic is far from a "new way to treat it".. you will be lucky if the fish eats alot in the first place when sick.. and if you never get rid of the ich, it will always be there.. somewhere
Tony Tony Tony I can feel the love lol I can not believe im saying this but "I agree "

 

[nicetry]

Along the lines of heavy feeding, there are some interesting threads on a couple of other boards where hobbyists have had a bout of crypt in their systems and have upped the feeding regimen, with positive results. One specifically had a pbt in a large established reef and was not able/willing to tear the tank apart. He began feeding several times a day and the problem resolved and did not come back. Not suggesting this is a cure per se but there may be benefits to heavy feeding, in terms of immune function. It is well documented that fish can acquire some immunity from parasites

 

[tizzo]

Again, I skim, (I'm not good with the long threads)
But I did find one thing curious...
He has his method of "treatment/prevention" that he claims works well.
AND he says that every fish has ick.
I am thinking that those 2 statements do not support each other. If all of his fish have ick, I'm not sure I'd practice his methods.

I get what your saying about it living dormant in the gills, but even if that were true, that means it keeps coming back, and if it keeps coming back...

 

[salty blues]

Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2533378
Come on guy you keep saying "such a successful reef keeper" by whose standards and hear say does not hold enough water to fill a nano tank. You are here to learn,teach and to understand as we all are. Do your own research and come to your own concussions. Do you think he is giving you valid info
Brought to you by magnum PI and of course this is just IMO
"concussions", I like that!

 

[jefnmichele]

Just checking a few things here...
Can a perfectly healthy fish get ich?
In a tank full of perfectly healthy fish, can ich survive?
If ich has no host to feed itself on, can it make it to the next stage of its life cycle?
Treatment/prevention does not sound like eradication?
Did I spell eradication correctly?

 

[nicetry]

Originally Posted by Jefnmichele
http:///forum/post/2533848
Just checking a few things here...
Can a perfectly healthy fish get ich?
In a tank full of perfectly healthy fish, can ich survive?
If ich has no host to feed itself on, can it make it to the next stage of its life cycle?
Treatment/prevention does not sound like eradication?
Did I spell eradication correctly?
yes
yes
no
correct

 

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by salty blues
http:///forum/post/2533836
"concussions", I like that!

Yes concessions all part of the Yin and the Yang is it not ?

 

[muggiwhplar]

I had a similar experience recently. I had heard about garlic as a treatment before, but had never taken it at all seriously until an LFS owner told me a few weeks ago not to buy copper from his store because I could more safely and easily treat ich with garlic and ginger. He said he used to treat in a QT, but has found it to be easier to let the ich live in the tank, and occasionally do the garlic/ginger treatment when it springs up. I went home, tried to find any serious studies on the matter, and came up empty. So I'm going to stick with hypo. I'm also going to be setting up a QT just for corals in order to avoid bringing ich into the tank on a frag plug or something once I've gotten it out of the system.

 

[ecooper]

I don't know about any of this, but I did successfully stop an ick infestation a coupld of months ago. I don't know if is ick is always present or not, but it seems like it would have to be to some extent. Here's my reason for thinking.
My flasher wrasse suddenly had white spots after moving from the QT (no signs in the QT tank) to the main tank. Well, unfortunately, I couldn't catch him in the live rock. So, I did two things:
1. I bought a skunk cleaner shrimp who are supposed to keep down parasites. And the wrasse used him.
2. And, when I topped off my tank with fresh water, I waited until the wrasse went by and poured it directly on him (kind of like a freshwater dip in the main tank).
Well, either I got lucky or it worked, because it took care of the ick and no one else got it...