Opinions NEEDED! Is there are market for this?

[aviator]

Hi all,
I'm currently working on a new aquarium timer for myself, but have been urged by numerous "non aquarium" owmers to seriously look at marketing the device.
It's not just a timer, it's what I call a compelte aquarium tender. There might be something like this out there already, but I've yet to find one. Here's everything that it does. You tell me, what would you pay for something that did all that is listed below? (pay special attention to the "power outage" stuff)
Right now, I'm thinking the unit would be a sub $100 pricetag
Also, what else would YOU like to see it do? Is there some feature that you would like to see a unit like this have that isn't listed? I'm listening!! I appreciate ANY and ALL feedback! I am absolutley serious about this. If I go forward, the unit would be UL listed and, of course, saltwaterfish.com would be my first place to turn to see if they're interested in carrying it!
I do have the means to bring a unit like this to market, but I seriously need to know if there's even a market for it first. you guys are my first "study group" and I truly appreciate your input! I will be keeping track of those that reply with meaningful (good or bad) feedback. I'm going to need a few "testers" if this takes off. This is NO JOKE.
The unit is already created and has been running on my 55g aquarium for some time as a prototype and I couldn't be happier with it!
Code:
Control up to 5 different devices independently of each other based on time and day.
•Each device can have a custom name up to 10 characters long. Examples:
oPUMP1
oFuge PUMP
oKoralia 1
oSkimmer 1
oSkimmer #2
oFANS
oACTINIC LT
oMH LIGHT
oMOONLIGHTS
•Separate ON and OFF times of each device
oEach device can be turned on and off independently at a specified time
oEach device timer can be programmed to run at its’ designated time based on day of the week.
Every day
Every Saturday
Every Monday, Wednesday and Friday.
Every Monday, Tuesday, Saturday…
•Water temperature monitoring in both C and F
oUnit logs both HIGH and LOW temps for a 24 hour period
Unit can show graph of temps for 1 week period
•Programmable water temperature alarm
oWhen alarm temperature is met, any of the 5 devices can be turned on or off, or an audible alarm turned on.
oAlarm text text can be customized:
Top line Max of 14 characters (temp always shows to right)
Bottom line Max of 20 characters
•Programmable filter cleaner reminder
oCan be set weekly, bi weekly or monthly
oReminder text can be customized, 2 lines of 20 characters each
•Programmable “feed me!” timer based on day of the week.
oPerfect for vacations when you have someone else tending your tank
otext can be customized, 2 lines of 20 characters each
•Single button control to turn each device ON, OFF, or to run on timer
oDevice Button glows RED when they are in “override - off”
oDevice Button glows BLUE when they are in “override – on”
oDevice Button is unlit when they are in “timer” mode
•Attractive VFD Display and LED backlit buttons
•Buttons are stainless steel to minimize corrosion, display is GLASS to prevent scratches.
•Control head separate from main control unit and runs on low voltage so it is safe to mount directly on the tank
•Each 110V outlet has its’ own breaker, if one device shorts out, the others continue working
oOutlets can handle up to 15 amps each (30 amp maximum for all devices)
•Dual time backup to keep the timer going, even if you experience a power outage
oInternal clock in backed up with 2 AA batteries to keep time accurate
oIf the batteries fail or are allowed to go dead and you experience a power outage, the unit will default to the current hour. The timer will never be more than one hour off.
•Timer settings and alarms are stored in memory that doesn’t require power. If the system is unplugged, your settings are never lost.
•Simple 5 button controls for programming, naming and controlling each device.
•Display automatically dims when light levels are low in the room.
•Display can be disabled without affecting timer. (alarm will override)
•Display can be customized to the following items:
oTime
oDate
oDay of week (i.e. Tuesday)
oWater temperature
oStatus of each device
oTurned off

 

[wangotango]

There are several aquarium controllers already available (Neptune's Aquacontroller, Digital Aquatic's Reefkeeper, Profilux, etc). They're also pretty easy to build using Arduino boards.
Do you have anymore specs on yours?

 

[flower]

LOL...if it can do all that for a $100.00 count me in...

I have a master controller from Coralife. It runs my lights: the moonlight at certain times, the MH and the actinic on separate timers so when one goes off the other kicks on…I also set up my skimmer to run at night along with the moonlights.
It does not however run my pumps or has reminders, no customized personal messages or temp alarms. How about adding a gizmo or sensor to detect water on the floor..

 

[gill again68]

I am currently running the Digital Aquatics Elite. It does a bunch of stuff and is capable of even more than I currently do. However your device for under $100.00 could certainly fit in with many reefers. I would like to follow this and even test one if you like. I would think that running some almost side by side with other controllers could give you some great feedback? Just a thought. Good Luck and remember I think that if your going to get into this market its going to be PRICE with lots of function. Again just my .02
subscribified!

 

[jstdv8]

the reefkeeper lite is about 100 bucks. I'm not sure what all it can do for that price though. I think temp, PH, and timers

 

[aviator]

They're also pretty easy to build using Arduino boards
Not everyone, in fact, MOST don't know the first thing about adduino boards, nor do they wany to learn something at this technical of a level.
This is definatley a microntroller based unit, but it's all in one with no learning curve. Just buy it, unbox it and get it running. You don't have to know how to program, solder, or build circuits. The group of people out there that either know how, or are willing to learn these skills just for a system like this is very limited.
I think a floor wetnes sensor is a good idea. I've also kicked the idea around of PH and Salinity and have plans for both sensors, those would be a great add and wouldn't add much to the cost.
I also agree that price vs. features is the most important. If you have gobs of money to spend, there are plenty of units you can mix and match to get this done. However, I hadn't seen a unit that does all of this at the same time for under $100.... so thats what I was aiming for.
I will keep everyone posted as I work towards a viable unit to send out for testing. Flower, you're on my list for a tester as well as Gill and WangoTango,
WangoTango, what other specs would you like? are you looking for dimensions, or electrical specs? let me know what you're interested in and I will post it for you.
I will try and get a few photos of the unit once I have it in a final "box" - but once testing starts, I will have a custom enclosure for it.
I already have plans on making a "fancier" version with a graphical readout and a touchscreen as well. something that could be incorporated into a custom hood. this version would also be able to directly run a custom set of LED lights and include atmosphere events like sunset colors, twilight colors, perhaps a lightning storm etc... it would also allow a slow fade up and fade down of the lights to closer simulate the sun coming up and going down, things like that.

 

[gill again68]

I really like the idea of a touch screen. With that you could have a nice size screen that could do a lot of things.....

 

[acrylic51]

Gret idea, but I think realistically you'll never get all the functions of the major players for $100.00.....There is a good build thread going on over at the other big forum that is on the same base line as yours and it's well over $100.00....The project started simply and small and has really grown....Maybe read their thread and it might give your other ideas, but would love to see it!!!!!!!

You can do the touch screens as well with the Neptune controllers.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...=arduino+build
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...=arduino+build

 

[aviator]

Originally Posted by acrylic51
http:///forum/post/3289427
Gret idea, but I think realistically you'll never get all the functions of the major players for $100.00.....There is a good build thread going on over at the other big forum that is on the same base line as yours and it's well over $100.00....The project started simply and small and has really grown....Maybe read their thread and it might give your other ideas, but would love to see it!!!!!!!

You can do the touch screens as well with the Neptune controllers.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...=arduino+build
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...=arduino+build
Actually, I already have all the feeatures listed above incorporated into the system - and I"m running dual temp probes (one for water, one for ambient air temp inside my hood) - all for well under $100 right now. so changing one out for a Ph or Salinity or "wet floor" wouldn't be hard. Just a matter of building the probe and calibrating it. Sounds like a good project for this weekend!
I think the touchscreen and the graphical LCD would push it over the $100 mark - maybe $140 - $160 or so, but something like that would be a "deluxe" version I guess.. The VFD Display I'm using is very attractive. I could also offer several color options for an LCD as well, green on black, blue on black, red on black, yellow on black, aqua on black - and all the reverse colors (yellow background, black letters OR black background, Yellow letters)
I checked your links out - yet another arduino build.
Honestly though, guys, what I'm doing can't be compared to the newbie arduino boards. The arduino is a great little starter kit and all and I cut my teeth on something similar, but the only thing we have in common is that there's a circuit board in both builds. I'm using a microcontroller thats a little more advanced than what they're using and it's programmed in assembly and runs at about 5 times the Mhz that an arduino does.
If I keep the feature set as listed above, I can already tell you that the $100 pricepoint is definatley do-able. I worked the math last night and it's easily do-able for $100. of courrse, I would have to "eat" the tooling costs, but I'm okay with that if there's a market for it.
I'd really like to know if you guys think this is different enought from whats out there now to be a viable product. If not, what would make it stand out to you?
THere are a number of differences between what I'm doing and what they're doing.

 

[wangotango]

I don't really think there's much more that isn't already being done with the controllers already available (DIY or fully assembled). The biggest thing that you could possibly have for you is price. So say you actually get it into production (and the thing does EVERYTHING), even if it only costs you $100 to make I won't be able to buy it for that...

 

[acrylic51]

Scanned briefly and again love the idea.....What about ORP? How would the bus bars/sockets attach or wire to the head unit itself? Is there a possiblity to run 2 remote screens? What about being able to control Tunze's......just as the multicontrollers? Would it be capable of controlling LEDS independently? What about able to send test message alerts/internet accessable from remote location? Salinity probes aren't super common and have to be constantly calibrated, so would; so in a sense would be worthless
Any working units? I'd love to see a pic you have my curiousity.......

 

[aviator]

WangoTango, the $100 pricetag wouldn't be the build cost, that would be the final cost. My "profit" comes from the code in the system, that cost is built into that pricetag. I'm not going to divulge actual build cost, but I will say that the profit margin is small on a per-unit aspect. My hope would be to recoup production costs like layup over the life of the product. I don't really see it doing anything "more" than any other unit. I'm more looking at wanting to do the same for "less" - or the same "better" than the other guy. With enough money, you can buy several units combined to do everything that this does, but I'm looking more towards the "frugal" reefer that is interested in getting lots of good control and information in an easy to use package that's relativley inexpensive.
Acrylc51, running several monitors at once would definatley be a possability - I'm kicking the idea around of making an "add-on"module to allow a user to have a wireless unit was well. As far as Tunze's equipment - It could probably control it if I knew the interface and had a few pieces of equipment to test with. I feel a "version II" coming on there! As it stand right now, it can't control the LED's independantyl, but I plan on making an LED version that would be able to control either a commerical LED or a "homebrew" led setup and providing all the specs of the system so a user could build an LED system to the specs. Not sure how I want to tackle this yet, but the idea is rolling around in my head, thats for sure! Text messages and alerts via internet is also a very good idea, again.. version II perhaps, or an "upgraded" unit of some sort.
You're are absolutley correct about salinity probes and this has posed a problem for me thus far in making the probe. I'm working on a way to overcome this. Perhaps with a small "motorized" probe that calibrates itself then tests the water, that way you don't have to calibrade it by hand. Not sure how to tackle that yet either. I have a salinity probe that works well right now, but only when it's perfectly clean.
as soon as photobucket cooperates, I will get a few photos of the disaply up.

 

[spanko]

Sounds very interesting.

 

[jstdv8]

ha, I was going to purchase a reefkeeper lite, I think I'll wait to see how this plays out.....

 

[acrylic51]

Waiting patiently!!!!!!

 

[aviator]

Here's a somewhat fuzzy look at the display. Didn't realize how hard it would be to photograph!
Here I have it set to show "time and date" on the left, and "status and temp" on the right. the L P F you see stand for "Lights Pump Filter" - which means each of these are on. when one turns off, that letter dissapears. the letter is just the first letter of the custom name. The one that you can't see right now is "S" for skimmer - I only tun the skimmer at night, and right now it's... well... day obvioulsy. I had been playing around with the date as well, thats why it shows januuary 18th.
The temp reading may seem high to some of you - thats because in order to get the photo, I had to remove the temp probe from the water, so it was being directly exposed to the MH light. temp updates happen twice a second.
This is the "evrey day" screen that can be configured to show whatever you want. after all the messing around, I have found that this is the most usefull screen.

 

[acrylic51]

Would it be possible to enable the end users to program their own status symbols or coding? Meaning instead of filter such as CL Pump, Ca Pump, etc....
I had mentioned earlier about tunze contollable, I think off the top of my head 0-10v. Someone correct me if I'm wrong??? How reliable would the microprocessors be at handling or taking the abuse of the MH ballasts on/off? Most timers fail because of the abuse.... What about flash updating? Would it be possible to change color of screen? Dim/brighten feature of the screen? What about being able to lock the screen from unauthorized adjustments? Would all functions work as well from the remotes screens as well?
When you had mentioned earlier about possibility of remote screen being wiresless, can you elaborate alittle more what you had in mind? I'm guessing something in line with a wireless printer setup????

 

[spanko]

Okay I am ready. Got mass production going yet? I mean come on it has been three days since your original post!!!!!!

 

[aviator]

first, please pardpon misspellings - I'm posting from a tiny Netbook.... LOL
Would it be possible to enable the end users to program their own status symbols or coding? Meaning instead of filter such as CL Pump, Ca Pump, etc....
yes, they are all cusomizable up to ten characters, uncluding symbols and spaces (ASCII)
I had mentioned earlier about tunze contollable, I think off the top of my head 0-10v. Someone correct me if I'm wrong???
I don't know anything about them, but if it's just a matter of sending 0v - +10V to control them, that would be pretty easy, depending on amperage requirements. this could be an add-on board pretty easy.
How reliable would the microprocessors be at handling or taking the abuse of the MH ballasts on/off?
all the switching has been seperated from the microprocessing using optocouplers and MOSFET's along with an anti-ripple/feedback circuit on each - this seperates the 110 AC voltage fro the 5v rail completley and prevents "bouncing relay" (abuse) the relays used to switch the power on and off for each piece of equipment are oversized (110v at 50a) for the size of the circuit. you will pop the breaker before you damage anything. as it stands right now, the only solid-state relays out there that can handle the power consumption of a MH light on start-up are very expensive, so to keep the costs down, I'm using a heavy duty physical relay rated at 5,000,000 cycles - additionaly, the microprocessors will run on their own bucking regulator that is "smoothed out" with a circuit - this regulator runs nothing else but the uC's - so even if something else on the board dies, the uC will still continue to work. (this is a required step for UL listing in a damp environment - see, I'm thinking big here)
Most timers fail because of the abuse....
correct. I agree with this. the timer functions of the unit are set up so that they can't be switched on and off at a rater faster than 1 minute, this keeps the cycles low on the relays and frees up clock cycles on the microprocessor. It also prevents "abuse" of the timer as you've mentioned. For example, if you turn the lights on, you have to wait one minute before you can turn them off again. there will be no provisions to override this safety feature.
The only exception to this is a complete failure mode, in which all devices will be put into an "on" state immediatley. I would rather have everything on, lights included than risk having the unit fail and turn the pump off. bad juju!!
What about flash updating?
in will most likely be possible to flash update the system from the internet via a USB connection by going to a website. pretty slick!
Would it be possible to change color of screen? Dim/brighten feature of the screen?
the screen color would have to be chosen at the time of pruchase, but being able to dim and brighten the screen is a feature thats already built in. the unit will automatically dim itself whe the light levels in the room get low (which is user adjustable) - there is also a feature to have the screen turn completley off after a set period of inactivity. there is also a manual control of the dimmer using one of the front face buttons. there are 4 levels of brightness - OFF, LOW, MED, HIGH. they are not configurable by the user.
What about being able to lock the screen from unauthorized adjustments?
this is a GREAT idea and will be coded in this evening with a user defined "passcode" which will be a specific order in which the buttons have to be pressed.
Would all functions work as well from the remotes screens as well?
Yes, the functions of the remote screen would work exactly like the main screen.
When you had mentioned earlier about possibility of remote screen being wiresless, can you elaborate alittle more what you had in mind? I'm guessing something in line with a wireless printer setup?
the wireless will probably use a 433MHZ rf signal with parity so that it doesn't interfere with any other devices you have in your home that might be wireless. I can't really elaborate on that any more as I've not programmed it yet.. but it's definatley on the "to do" list. the remote screen will have to be "paired" with the main screen - but there will be instructions for that, that way you can purchase the remote screen later. I thought about using bluetooth, but it's just too complicated for the needs of this unit.
LOL Spanko... not yet.. I know, I'm such a slacker... I'll let you know as soon as I have a few test units ready to go. I'm having the circuitboards cut right now. their turnaround time is about 4 weeks, then it's assembly and they will be ready.

 

[jstdv8]

I'm stoked, this thing sounds sweet