Question for SWF? Why Wild Caught Bangais?
- Thread starter myerst22
- Start date
globaldesigns
Member
I agree with everyone, why add to the problem. If they are threatened leave them alone.
I have 2 captive bread myself. very nice...
I have 2 captive bread myself. very nice...
silverdak
Active Member
Originally Posted by Ice4Ice
http:///forum/post/2891138
That is the question SWF.com needs to look into very seriously. If they are on the "threatened species" list, why do they continue to sell them?
true, very serious question. maybe there is a good reason or some by-law or something that allows it.... but either way I bet this thread will be locked
http:///forum/post/2891138
That is the question SWF.com needs to look into very seriously. If they are on the "threatened species" list, why do they continue to sell them?
true, very serious question. maybe there is a good reason or some by-law or something that allows it.... but either way I bet this thread will be locked
Actually, it is a great question. We do not actively buy them, but they sometimes show up with the shipment.
They are not on the restricted list althought they were up for inclusion on the CITES list last year and it did not pass. In my meetings with Gayatri Lilley the head of Indonesia's version of MAC this summer in Jakarta, they believe that the populations of Bangaii are not threatened to the level reported in the western press. There is also the issue of the Bangaii collection being the sole source of income for many families on the Bangaii Islands. An area of extreme poverty.
In any case, my personal view is not to purchase them, but as I said they sometimes arrive with shipments.
To me, the bigger question is what has happened to the domestic supply of captive bred bangaii? There has not been a consistent supply in months. In fact this is true of many of the captive bred species.
Ret Talbot has some blog entries on the ongoing discussion about Bangaii Cardinals in Saltwater Sense. It is good reading.
They are not on the restricted list althought they were up for inclusion on the CITES list last year and it did not pass. In my meetings with Gayatri Lilley the head of Indonesia's version of MAC this summer in Jakarta, they believe that the populations of Bangaii are not threatened to the level reported in the western press. There is also the issue of the Bangaii collection being the sole source of income for many families on the Bangaii Islands. An area of extreme poverty.
In any case, my personal view is not to purchase them, but as I said they sometimes arrive with shipments.
To me, the bigger question is what has happened to the domestic supply of captive bred bangaii? There has not been a consistent supply in months. In fact this is true of many of the captive bred species.
Ret Talbot has some blog entries on the ongoing discussion about Bangaii Cardinals in Saltwater Sense. It is good reading.
ret talbot
Member
Originally Posted by Saltwaterfish.com
http:///forum/post/2891284
Actually, it is a great question. We do not actively buy them, but they sometimes show up with the shipment.
They are not on the restricted list althought they were up for inclusion on the CITES list last year and it did not pass. In my meetings with Gayatri Lilley the head of Indonesia's version of MAC this summer in Jakarta, they believe that the populations of Bangaii are not threatened to the level reported in the western press. There is also the issue of the Bangaii collection being the sole source of income for many families on the Bangaii Islands. An area of extreme poverty.
In any case, my personal view is not to purchase them, but as I said they sometimes arrive with shipments.
To me, the bigger question is what has happened to the domestic supply of captive bred bangaii? There has not been a consistent supply in months. In fact this is true of many of the captive bred species.
Ret Talbot has some blog entries on the ongoing discussion about Bangaii Cardinals in Saltwater Sense. It is good reading.
Ret Talbot here, and I'll just chime in if I may. I have been following the Banggai issue as a journalist for some time, and if you're interested, do check out my blog entries at www.SaltwaterSense.com and at my Microcosm Aquarium Explorer blog. I'm not suggesting my writing on the topic will win any Pulitzers, but I have made an effort to allow hobbyists to hear from the horse's mouth, as it were. You will see the opinions of lots of people including people who are on the ground in the Islands.
Regarding the comment above about captive-bred Banggais being readily available--they simply are not. I visited seven local fish stores in the LA area in the past week and not one carried captive bred Banggais or knew where they could get them. Same deal when you talk to the online retailers. I know of one source that will become available to retailers local to Southern California in March, but that's it at present. This is perplexing to me given the full court press by the marine aquarium hobby press for a self-imposed ban on wild-caught Banggais. Either people are buying fewer Banggais (not supported by the import data) or people are just going ahead and buying wild caught Banggais despite the articles and calls to action (i.e. Eric B. at MACNA).
The bottom line is that, for whatever reason, hobbyists are not creating the demand for serious commercial captive breeding of Banggais. I suspect it has to do with price, which is a sad statement... My advice: If you are going to buy a Banggai, do your homework first and be an informed aquarist intent on supporting a sustainable hobby.
http:///forum/post/2891284
Actually, it is a great question. We do not actively buy them, but they sometimes show up with the shipment.
They are not on the restricted list althought they were up for inclusion on the CITES list last year and it did not pass. In my meetings with Gayatri Lilley the head of Indonesia's version of MAC this summer in Jakarta, they believe that the populations of Bangaii are not threatened to the level reported in the western press. There is also the issue of the Bangaii collection being the sole source of income for many families on the Bangaii Islands. An area of extreme poverty.
In any case, my personal view is not to purchase them, but as I said they sometimes arrive with shipments.
To me, the bigger question is what has happened to the domestic supply of captive bred bangaii? There has not been a consistent supply in months. In fact this is true of many of the captive bred species.
Ret Talbot has some blog entries on the ongoing discussion about Bangaii Cardinals in Saltwater Sense. It is good reading.
Ret Talbot here, and I'll just chime in if I may. I have been following the Banggai issue as a journalist for some time, and if you're interested, do check out my blog entries at www.SaltwaterSense.com and at my Microcosm Aquarium Explorer blog. I'm not suggesting my writing on the topic will win any Pulitzers, but I have made an effort to allow hobbyists to hear from the horse's mouth, as it were. You will see the opinions of lots of people including people who are on the ground in the Islands.
Regarding the comment above about captive-bred Banggais being readily available--they simply are not. I visited seven local fish stores in the LA area in the past week and not one carried captive bred Banggais or knew where they could get them. Same deal when you talk to the online retailers. I know of one source that will become available to retailers local to Southern California in March, but that's it at present. This is perplexing to me given the full court press by the marine aquarium hobby press for a self-imposed ban on wild-caught Banggais. Either people are buying fewer Banggais (not supported by the import data) or people are just going ahead and buying wild caught Banggais despite the articles and calls to action (i.e. Eric B. at MACNA).
The bottom line is that, for whatever reason, hobbyists are not creating the demand for serious commercial captive breeding of Banggais. I suspect it has to do with price, which is a sad statement... My advice: If you are going to buy a Banggai, do your homework first and be an informed aquarist intent on supporting a sustainable hobby.
jrod4u
Member
Originally Posted by Saltwaterfish.com
http:///forum/post/2891284
Actually, it is a great question. We do not actively buy them, but they sometimes show up with the shipment.
They are not on the restricted list althought they were up for inclusion on the CITES list last year and it did not pass. In my meetings with Gayatri Lilley the head of Indonesia's version of MAC this summer in Jakarta, they believe that the populations of Bangaii are not threatened to the level reported in the western press. There is also the issue of the Bangaii collection being the sole source of income for many families on the Bangaii Islands. An area of extreme poverty.
In any case, my personal view is not to purchase them, but as I said they sometimes arrive with shipments.
To me, the bigger question is what has happened to the domestic supply of captive bred bangaii? There has not been a consistent supply in months. In fact this is true of many of the captive bred species.
Ret Talbot has some blog entries on the ongoing discussion about Bangaii Cardinals in Saltwater Sense. It is good reading.
All I can say is, the next time I buy something from my LFS, I hope that I get something extra and not realize it.
http:///forum/post/2891284
Actually, it is a great question. We do not actively buy them, but they sometimes show up with the shipment.
They are not on the restricted list althought they were up for inclusion on the CITES list last year and it did not pass. In my meetings with Gayatri Lilley the head of Indonesia's version of MAC this summer in Jakarta, they believe that the populations of Bangaii are not threatened to the level reported in the western press. There is also the issue of the Bangaii collection being the sole source of income for many families on the Bangaii Islands. An area of extreme poverty.
In any case, my personal view is not to purchase them, but as I said they sometimes arrive with shipments.
To me, the bigger question is what has happened to the domestic supply of captive bred bangaii? There has not been a consistent supply in months. In fact this is true of many of the captive bred species.
Ret Talbot has some blog entries on the ongoing discussion about Bangaii Cardinals in Saltwater Sense. It is good reading.
All I can say is, the next time I buy something from my LFS, I hope that I get something extra and not realize it.
snakeblitz33
Well-Known Member
jrod, i've done it before. Also, when I ordered transshipped fish, they always pack some extra fish in the order to make up for dead fish.
That's what they mean by they sometimes get extra fish in the order - fish they didn't order, but the overseas company gave them to make up for some losses.
That's what they mean by they sometimes get extra fish in the order - fish they didn't order, but the overseas company gave them to make up for some losses.
invertcrazy
Member
I haven't seen Bangaii's in my area for a long time captive bred or wild caught.
florida joe
Well-Known Member
A survey completed in 2007 estimated that exported Banggai cardinals were in the range of one million. It is the opinion of Alejandro Vagelli PhD that those numbers are not sustainable. Vagellis studies show that in 2001 the number of fish per quuar meter was as high as .69 now it is in the range of 0 to 0.07 per square meter. The reduction in number is due to habitat destruction and export for the aquarium trade
ret talbot
Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2916648
A survey completed in 2007 estimated that exported Banggai cardinals were in the range of one million. It is the opinion of Alejandro Vagelli PhD that those numbers are not sustainable. Vagellis studies show that in 2001 the number of fish per quuar meter was as high as .69 now it is in the range of 0 to 0.07 per square meter. The reduction in number is due to habitat destruction and export for the aquarium trade
There are November 2008 numbers that were just reviewed during a meeting in Indonesia as part of the managament planning process. Shame those numbers (or even anything about the current work) are not being reported.
http:///forum/post/2916648
A survey completed in 2007 estimated that exported Banggai cardinals were in the range of one million. It is the opinion of Alejandro Vagelli PhD that those numbers are not sustainable. Vagellis studies show that in 2001 the number of fish per quuar meter was as high as .69 now it is in the range of 0 to 0.07 per square meter. The reduction in number is due to habitat destruction and export for the aquarium trade
There are November 2008 numbers that were just reviewed during a meeting in Indonesia as part of the managament planning process. Shame those numbers (or even anything about the current work) are not being reported.
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Ret Talbot
http:///forum/post/2916816
There are November 2008 numbers that were just reviewed during a meeting in Indonesia as part of the managament planning process. Shame those numbers (or even anything about the current work) are not being reported.
Could be big money talks or in this case silences
http:///forum/post/2916816
There are November 2008 numbers that were just reviewed during a meeting in Indonesia as part of the managament planning process. Shame those numbers (or even anything about the current work) are not being reported.
Could be big money talks or in this case silences
ret talbot
Member
You guys may want to check out my blog entry on captive bred versus wild-caught fishes posted today at www.SaltwaterSense.com. I will be following up with other blog entries on the topic, and I'd welcome your thoughts or opinions.
Cheers,
Ret
www.SaltwaterSense.com
Cheers,
Ret
www.SaltwaterSense.com
mantisman51
Active Member
I seek out captive bred fish. I find it hard to believe very many aquarists would avoid captive bred fish. I am no eco-nut, but I want the hobby to be as un-regulated as possible and the way to avoid government intrusion is to self-regulate. I would think large companies like SWF think the same way. Like Ronald Reagan said, the scariest words in Engish are, " I'm from the government and I'm here to help." Great reading on your blog, Red.
lion_crazz
Active Member
Originally Posted by Saltwaterfish.com
http:///forum/post/2891284
To me, the bigger question is what has happened to the domestic supply of captive bred bangaii? There has not been a consistent supply in months. In fact this is true of many of the captive bred species.
Scott, I am glad someone else is noticing this as well. Captive bred neon gobies seem impossible to get a hold of, as do banggai's, and many other very popular species of fish.
http:///forum/post/2891284
To me, the bigger question is what has happened to the domestic supply of captive bred bangaii? There has not been a consistent supply in months. In fact this is true of many of the captive bred species.
Scott, I am glad someone else is noticing this as well. Captive bred neon gobies seem impossible to get a hold of, as do banggai's, and many other very popular species of fish.
nigerbang
Active Member
Originally Posted by lion_crazz
http:///forum/post/2976359
, as do banggai's, and many other very popular species of fish.
They are not that hard....10 people in our local club breed them...Im sure others out there do as well...As for the gobies... maybe... Card's not likly
http:///forum/post/2976359
, as do banggai's, and many other very popular species of fish.
They are not that hard....10 people in our local club breed them...Im sure others out there do as well...As for the gobies... maybe... Card's not likly
lion_crazz
Active Member
Originally Posted by NigerBang
http:///forum/post/2976415
They are not that hard....10 people in our local club breed them...Im sure others out there do as well...As for the gobies... maybe... Card's not likly
What fish are you referring to that 10 people breed in your local club? I don't know of any local reefer breeding neon gobies or cardinals..
http:///forum/post/2976415
They are not that hard....10 people in our local club breed them...Im sure others out there do as well...As for the gobies... maybe... Card's not likly
What fish are you referring to that 10 people breed in your local club? I don't know of any local reefer breeding neon gobies or cardinals..
nigerbang
Active Member
Originally Posted by lion_crazz
http:///forum/post/2976422
What fish are you referring to that 10 people breed in your local club? I don't know of any local reefer breeding neon gobies or cardinals..
Cards.. I would show you but we cant post links.. We have some sponsers that are mail order..not the neons...although I think he is trying...
http:///forum/post/2976422
What fish are you referring to that 10 people breed in your local club? I don't know of any local reefer breeding neon gobies or cardinals..
Cards.. I would show you but we cant post links.. We have some sponsers that are mail order..not the neons...although I think he is trying...