Ray Lewis... is this a guy to be revered?

[crimzy]

I have to admit, I love watching this guy play. He is a prototypical football player, and I'd take 53 of him on my team if I could.... however....
There is that small issue of allegedly covering up for his associate who murdered someone outside of a nightclub in Atlanta several years ago. He pled to a misdemeanor and served his sentence, but this guy is held out as a posterboy for the NFL.
I guess a follow up question is whether he actually did anything wrong at all. Allegedly he refused to provide information to the investigating police and even went so far as to conceal clothing that he had with blood on it. Should he have snitched out his friend? The law says yes but I think many segments of the outside world would argue that he gets credit for taking his medicine without rolling over. What do you think?
Oh, BTW, how do you all feel about gun control? Has this issue been addressed yet??

 

[reefraff]

I can't like him because of it. Sorta like OJ. He got off but he was involved. Lewis bought his way out.

 

[acrylic51]

Not a fan of Ray......But I don't condone murder, but as you pointed out he did his time and society determined what the punishment should be and maybe from where Ray comes from you don't sell out a friend.....Not saying it's right, but Ray did his time, so in my book he's paid his debt......
What would make him any different from a guy who had a DUI and killed innocent people and did his time, and actually did change his life around.....Would you still "hate" on him as well......

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/394272/ray-lewis-is-this-a-guy-to-be-revered#post_3509213
Not a fan of Ray......But I don't condone murder, but as you pointed out he did his time and society determined what the punishment should be and maybe from where Ray comes from you don't sell out a friend.....Not saying it's right, but Ray did his time, so in my book he's paid his debt......
What would make him any different from a guy who had a DUI and killed innocent people and did his time, and actually did change his life around.....Would you still "hate" on him as well......
Actually he didn't do time. He did a plea deal to testify against the other two guys that kept him out of jail/

 

[acrylic51]

That's what the state wanted and decided upon....Who are we to pass judgement...This sort of thing is done all the time....Not saying is right, but face it it's done everyday......Depends who you are.....Look at Kennedy.....

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/394272/ray-lewis-is-this-a-guy-to-be-revered#post_3509229
That's what the state wanted and decided upon....Who are we to pass judgement...This sort of thing is done all the time....Not saying is right, but face it it's done everyday......Depends who you are.....Look at Kennedy.....
OJ was found not guilty. What do you think of him?

 

[beth]

I would have a hard time continuing a friendship with someone who murdered someone else in a bar, let alone helping him out to conceal the murder. You're a lawyer, so you should know that he aided and abided in a crime, right?
Another of many reasons why not to make heroes of sports personalities.

 

[acrylic51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/394272/ray-lewis-is-this-a-guy-to-be-revered#post_3509232
OJ was found not guilty. What do you think of him?
OJ was guilty, but that's just how life is sometimes.....Take the bitter with the sweet....Society; a group of his piers stated he was innocent.....Again who are we to pass judgement, when he clearly had his day in court.... You mention OJ and I stated Kennedy.....He wasn't even questioned or put on trial, and we both know the clear answer to why.....They all have money......

 

[acrylic51]

Beth I think a lot of that comes from where some of these guys come from....Some don't come from the same walks of life as possibly you or I....Just go into the inner city where you live....There's a different code of ethics to a degree of what some live by as opposed as to what we might live by....There that way of life is more of survival....You snitch, you won't be around tomorrow mentality.....

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/394272/ray-lewis-is-this-a-guy-to-be-revered#post_3509237
OJ was guilty, but that's just how life is sometimes.....Take the bitter with the sweet....Society; a group of his piers stated he was innocent.....Again who are we to pass judgement, when he clearly had his day in court.... You mention OJ and I stated Kennedy.....He wasn't even questioned or put on trial, and we both know the clear answer to why.....They all have money......
Just my point. I bleed cardinal and gold but I think OJ is a POS. Same deal with Lewis. Just because the DA couldn't make a good case doesn't mean he wasn't involved. Why else did he hide the clothes he was wearing that night? Like I said, I can't like the guy. It's not like I am singling him out.

 

[beth]

I'll probably sound like a racist, but, truly it is also a feature among some minority groups. For whatever the reason, this should not just be accepted, in my view. Someone is murdered. You don't just help the murderer out. But, yeah, he served his time and deserves to be able to live his life now....but not as a hero or an icon to be praised.

 

[mantisman51]

I agree that too much criminal misbehavior is accepted in minority communities as "our culture". In Ray Lewis' case, he admitted being there and trying to cover for his friends. He really has turned his life around. He says he was a street thug and hung out with a bad crowd, but that was the first and last time he was involved in a murder and truly regrets it. He has been a model citizen since. I like Ray Lewis because he is a living example of true redemption and unlike too many athletes and other entertainers, he makes no excuse and has changed his whole life. He did something bad, but didn't allow it to drag him further down or, like 99% of rappers, glorify it and use it as a badge of honor. He has done what most of us who are law and order types demand thugs do-he quit being a criminal. I can't condemn him because he is a different human being now.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/394272/ray-lewis-is-this-a-guy-to-be-revered#post_3509245
I'll probably sound like a racist, but, truly it is also a feature among some minority groups. For whatever the reason, this should not just be accepted, in my view. Someone is murdered. You don't just help the murderer out. But, yeah, he served his time and deserves to be able to live his life now....but not as a hero or an icon to be praised.
This!

 

[darthtang aw]

is it possible to respect their football life but not their personal life. I for one am going to miss Ray in the game. I am hoping to see one more dance from. However I grew up watching Ray's Career...O.J. on the other hand I am not as familiar with his career. I know the stats and how great his football career was, but not watching him it is easier for me to disconnect from him. If personal life takes away from sports life accomplishments, then Greats Like Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Ben Rothlisberger, Michael Irvin, and on and on and on, would never receive the credit for their sports accomplishments.
For me, I separate the two. And I teach this to my kids as well. Look at the rock musicians that get idolized and creditted. Guns and Roses just went into the Rock and Roll hall of fame....they did some vile crap that was also illegal. Even our politicians....
Hell (sorry crimzy) Defense lawyers are vaulted up the lawyer world for getting criminals off. The OJ lawyers are the most famous lawyers in theworld, yet they got what everyone believes is a murder out of serving a sentence and being punished. Isn't that an ethical issue as well?
So take nothing away from Ray's football career. he is one of the greats. But outside of that...he is not to be revered.

 

[acrylic51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/394272/ray-lewis-is-this-a-guy-to-be-revered#post_3509266
is it possible to respect their football life but not their personal life. I for one am going to miss Ray in the game. I am hoping to see one more dance from. However I grew up watching Ray's Career...O.J. on the other hand I am not as familiar with his career. I know the stats and how great his football career was, but not watching him it is easier for me to disconnect from him. If personal life takes away from sports life accomplishments, then Greats Like Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Ben Rothlisberger, Michael Irvin, and on and on and on, would never receive the credit for their sports accomplishments.
For me, I separate the two. And I teach this to my kids as well. Look at the rock musicians that get idolized and creditted. Guns and Roses just went into the Rock and Roll hall of fame....they did some vile crap that was also illegal. Even our politicians....
Hell (sorry crimzy) Defense lawyers are vaulted up the lawyer world for getting criminals off. The OJ lawyers are the most famous lawyers in theworld, yet they got what everyone believes is a murder out of serving a sentence and being punished. Isn't that an ethical issue as well?
So take nothing away from Ray's football career. he is one of the greats. But outside of that...he is not to be revered.
Agree....Not sure what Michael Jordan actually did, but Ben....He's a straight up rapist.....I personally don't get into following any celebrities really....From the Kardashians (sp) and guys mentioned above.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/394272/ray-lewis-is-this-a-guy-to-be-revered#post_3509243
Just my point. I bleed cardinal and gold but I think OJ is a POS. Same deal with Lewis. Just because the DA couldn't make a good case doesn't mean he wasn't involved. Why else did he hide the clothes he was wearing that night? Like I said, I can't like the guy. It's not like I am singling him out.
Won't disagree with you on the OJ deal......Lewis never denied involvement as stated above, again you can't even begin to have the mindset on where guys like Lewis have come from, and don't even state you can Reef....2 different worlds....I''m not condoning or have the mindset just because you have misfortunes in life you use that as a cop out to be a POS, but lets be realistic here.....There is a "code" in some environments and we can't deny that....You look at the loyalty in gangs.....Guys will do years because they won't roll.....Why it's a lot deeper than friendship....In some walks of life and circles that "squealing" has major repercussions not just on the individuals, but others as well.....
I think what I find appalling his how he does make himself out to be a God fearing individual.....I think him and quite a few others are playing it up for the camera......I personally try to make it a point not to watch or partake in any professional sports.....Somewhat of a boycott as to "grown" babies being pampered, because they can do what they want and as they please.....
Quote:
="quote-block">
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/394272/ray-lewis-is-this-a-guy-to-be-revered#post_3509245
I'll probably sound like a racist, but, truly it is also a feature among some minority groups. For whatever the reason, this should not just be accepted, in my view. Someone is murdered. You don't just help the murderer out. But, yeah, he served his time and deserves to be able to live his life now....but not as a hero or an icon to be praised.

Racist.....No saying the truth....And again Beth it shouldn't be accepted, but it is and it's hard for us to judge when and I''m sure none of us have been cast in that walk of life to truly judge when in some walks of life this is learned from early on......I do find it hard to believe why anyone looks at any of these guys as hero's or icons....Don't get me wrong....There are a few guys that are noteworthy of their givingness, and their examples, but it only takes a few bad apples to give everyone a bad rap....
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/394272/ray-lewis-is-this-a-guy-to-be-revered#post_3509258
I agree that too much criminal misbehavior is accepted in minority communities as "our culture". In Ray Lewis' case, he admitted being there and trying to cover for his friends. He really has turned his life around. He says he was a street thug and hung out with a bad crowd, but that was the first and last time he was involved in a murder and truly regrets it. He has been a model citizen since. I like Ray Lewis because he is a living example of true redemption and unlike too many athletes and other entertainers, he makes no excuse and has changed his whole life. He did something bad, but didn't allow it to drag him further down or, like 99% of rappers, glorify it and use it as a badge of honor. He has done what most of us who are law and order types demand thugs do-he quit being a criminal. I can't condemn him because he is a different human being now.
Not sure if Ray is a true example of redemption......I don't think your genuine or anyone for that matter of fact if you have to openly proclaim how great God is or whatever he's always spouting.....Some of the worse hypocrite's are the ones that attend church every Sunday....Does that make them any better than those that don't attend or openly display his demeanor......Great football player yes, I do give him credit for keeping his nose clean, and believe regardless what he might have covered up or did, he had his day in court, and those that make the rules; laws decided his punishment and that's that.....

 

[ironeagle2006]

For me I look no Further than the Late Great Walter Payton for Sports or in Normal People my Father carry themselves. Walter had Nothing demanded Nothing yet even when he only got one chance at the Super Bowl to Score a TD and Ditka said give it to Perry he did not Blast Ditka in Public. Or in my Fathers Case he had a mother that treated him like Crap us Kids like Crap never wanted anything to do with us why he had the Balls to stand up to her and Divorce a woman that Abused his Oldest Son. Yet even when she was dying of Cancer in 1990-91 my father and my Mother that his MOTHER hated where the ones that dropped everything to be there for her to take care of her as his Sister was to busy to do so.

 

[crimzy]

I agree Darth except for the attorney point. I enjoy watching him play football but I'll never think he's a good role model nor should he get any humanitarian awards.
Regarding the point about attorneys, criminal defense attorneys are the primary checks and balances protecting the constitution. You can't claim constitutional rights exist without protecting them for the most egregious citizens. And the defense didn't "get OJ off", the prosecutor failed to meet their burden in the eyes of the jury. In my opinion, if a properly selected, properly instructed jury renders a verdict (regardless of what their decision is) then the system worked.

 

[crimzy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/394272/ray-lewis-is-this-a-guy-to-be-revered#post_3509288
I don't think your genuine or anyone for that matter of fact if you have to openly proclaim how great God is or whatever he's always spouting.....Some of the worse hypocrite's are the ones that attend church every Sunday....Does that make them any better than those that don't attend or openly display his demeanor......Great football player yes, I do give him credit for keeping his nose clean, and believe regardless what he might have covered up or did, he had his day in court, and those that make the rules; laws decided his punishment and that's that.....
I couldn't agree more. Suggesting that the almighty got him this victory carries the inherent suggestion that he is closer to g-d than the players on the Patriots, or any other team. It's just pumping yourself up needlessly. Personally I don't think that g-d is interested in the outcome of a football game, but that may be just me...

 

[theclemsonkid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by crimzy http:///t/394272/ray-lewis-is-this-a-guy-to-be-revered#post_3509301
I couldn't agree more. Suggesting that the almighty got him this victory carries the inherent suggestion that he is closer to g-d than the players on the Patriots, or any other team. It's just pumping yourself up needlessly. Personally I don't think that g-d is interested in the outcome of a football game, but that may be just me...
Really? If you lived in Cleveland, you would know that God, does in fact, hate our sports franchises. I don't think he has time to worry about all the cities in the world to torture, so he takes it all out on us. Our town is so sad sports wise, that the main bridge running out of downtown (The I-480 bridge) has its own Twitter account, asking people to stop jumping off him every time something bad happens to the Browns, Cavaliers, or Indians

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/394272/ray-lewis-is-this-a-guy-to-be-revered#post_3509288
Agree....Not sure what Michael Jordan actually did, but Ben....He's a straight up rapist.....I personally don't get into following any celebrities really....From the Kardashians (sp) and guys mentioned above.....
Won't disagree with you on the OJ deal......Lewis never denied involvement as stated above, again you can't even begin to have the mindset on where guys like Lewis have come from, and don't even state you can Reef....2 different worlds....I''m not condoning or have the mindset just because you have misfortunes in life you use that as a cop out to be a POS, but lets be realistic here.....There is a "code" in some environments and we can't deny that....You look at the loyalty in gangs.....Guys will do years because they won't roll.....Why it's a lot deeper than friendship....In some walks of life and circles that "squealing" has major repercussions not just on the individuals, but others as well.....
I think what I find appalling his how he does make himself out to be a God fearing individual.....I think him and quite a few others are playing it up for the camera......I personally try to make it a point not to watch or partake in any professional sports.....Somewhat of a boycott as to "grown" babies being pampered, because they can do what they want and as they please.....

Racist.....No saying the truth....And again Beth it shouldn't be accepted, but it is and it's hard for us to judge when and I''m sure none of us have been cast in that walk of life to truly judge when in some walks of life this is learned from early on......I do find it hard to believe why anyone looks at any of these guys as hero's or icons....Don't get me wrong....There are a few guys that are noteworthy of their givingness, and their examples, but it only takes a few bad apples to give everyone a bad rap....
Not sure if Ray is a true example of redemption......I don't think your genuine or anyone for that matter of fact if you have to openly proclaim how great God is or whatever he's always spouting.....Some of the worse hypocrite's are the ones that attend church every Sunday....Does that make them any better than those that don't attend or openly display his demeanor......Great football player yes, I do give him credit for keeping his nose clean, and believe regardless what he might have covered up or did, he had his day in court, and those that make the rules; laws decided his punishment and that's that.....
You seem to be ignoring some important facts
Lewis testified against the other two people involved. What code? He "snitched"
Lewis destroyed evidence, his clothes.
Quite frankly I don't give a damn where he came from. Criminal behavior is criminal behavior. Had he seen this from across the room and kept his mouth shut I could see your point but he was obviously involved.