tang about to die?

chutneyjh

Member
I'm still cycling my QT so I can hypo my fish, but I'm really worried about my kole tang. She's covered in ich! I'm not really sure if you can tell from the pics, but I'm afraid she won't make it much longer. Is there anything I can do for her while I'm waiting for the QT to cycle? She's not really eating a whole lot. Sometimes she'll act really lethargic on the bottom of the tank and like she's going to start floating sideways but then she snaps out of it. Other times, she swims around the tank fine.

 

sepulatian

Moderator
Try some chem marin's Stop Parasites. There is alot of debate on this board as to whether it works or not. I can say from personal experience that it worked for me. It will help knock some of the ich cysts off of your fish. It will not kill the ich, but will help reduce the number attatched. In the mean time keep your water quality as optimal as possible and add fresh garlic and vitamines to his food.
 

scsinet

Active Member
I would remove this fish and place it into the QT even if cycling has not completed. If you have forced an ammonia spike in the QT by adding a dead shrimp or one of the other methods, you need to remove what's left of it and change most of the water, but by putting it into isolation, particularly a bare bottom tank, will help prevent the established ich population from re-infesting the fish.
At least in isolation you are only dealing with the tomites that already are on the fish, not the enormous number of them in the substrate.
I'd remove him into the QT, and do a 50% water change every other day, then use either hyposalinity or copper to treat the ich. When you do the water change, siphon across the whole bottom of the tank, even if you don't see any debris down there. It'll help collect the ich that is sitting on the bottom.
 

scsinet

Active Member
BTW... your Kole tang doesn't look infested bad enough to kill him. He should survive this as long as you can get him into a situation where he is not getting continually reinfected as the ich that's on him drops off. That's where QT and water changes, siphoning, and hypo/copper comes in.
If you leave him in the DT, the population will continue to grow and he'll look worse and worse until it overcomes him.
 

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by SCSInet
I would remove this fish and place it into the QT even if cycling has not completed. If you have forced an ammonia spike in the QT by adding a dead shrimp or one of the other methods, you need to remove what's left of it and change most of the water, but by putting it into isolation, particularly a bare bottom tank, will help prevent the established ich population from re-infesting the fish.
At least in isolation you are only dealing with the tomites that already are on the fish, not the enormous number of them in the substrate.
I'd remove him into the QT, and do a 50% water change every other day, then use either hyposalinity or copper to treat the ich. When you do the water change, siphon across the whole bottom of the tank, even if you don't see any debris down there. It'll help collect the ich that is sitting on the bottom.
This makes sense. I would advise against copper for a tang though. If you are going to put him into an uncycled qt please remember to test for ammonia a few times per day. An ammonia spike will lessen his immune system even more. Are there any other fish in your tank? Ich has been exposed to the entire system now, and it will need to remain fishless for at least 6 weeks.
 

chutneyjh

Member
The parameters for the QT right now are:
ammonia 0.5
nitrite 0.25
nitrate 10
s.g. 1.017
temp 81
ph 7.8 not sure why it's so low
When I got back from dinner I thought it was dead. It didnt' appear to be moving and some hermits had moved its way. I went to fish it out with the net and it started moving, but it's not really swimming around. I could easily scoop it off the sand into the net. I think it's on its way out unless I can really do something major to help it at this point.
 

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by chutneyjh
The parameters for the QT right now are:
ammonia 0.5
nitrite 0.25
nitrate 10
s.g. 1.017
temp 81
ph 7.8 not sure why it's so low
When I got back from dinner I thought it was dead. It didnt' appear to be moving and some hermits had moved its way. I went to fish it out with the net and it started moving, but it's not really swimming around. I could easily scoop it off the sand into the net. I think it's on its way out unless I can really do something major to help it at this point.
I am sorry to say that it is not likely that your fish will make it. You will still need to either hypo your other fish (if you have more. I think I missed that part) or leave your display fishless for at least 6 weeks.
 

chutneyjh

Member
Yes I have two others that are still showing no symptoms. Either way, I'm going to have to hypo them and then leave them out of the display to kill all the ich. I just hate losing a fish though.
 

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by chutneyjh
Yes I have two others that are still showing no symptoms. Either way, I'm going to have to hypo them and then leave them out of the display to kill all the ich. I just hate losing a fish though.
I feel your pain. I have lost a few fish in the past(when I was new and had the nitrite difficulties) I know how much it hurts to lose a fish. Qt all new fish and give the ones you have the best possible living conditions. The healthier the fish the more resiliant they are to everything that may happen! :happyfish
 

scsinet

Active Member
How'd he do? Did he make it through the night?
If you have him in isolation, all you need is for him to survive about 3 more days. After that most of the ich should have dropped off.
 

chutneyjh

Member
It made it through the night. He's hiding but maintaining balance and is upright and looks better. I have about 10 gallons of water made up and I'm going to make more tonight to I can keep changing out the water. I'm going to wait a few more days and let him settle in a calm down. Then if he makes it okay, I'll add the other fish in. Is this advisable? Or should I add the other fish in now so I can start hypo asap? Thanks for all your help guys!
 

scsinet

Active Member
Glad to hear he made it!

If you are planning to take your system fallow (without fish), then I'd recommend waiting until you have a reserve of 100% the volume of the QT in water. So, if you have a 10 gallon QT, have 10 gallons of water mixed and on hand at all times, in addition to what you make for water changes. This will allow you to do a 100% water change in the event of an emergency like a big ammonia spike.
 

chutneyjh

Member
Ok. It's a 30, so looks like I need to go out and get some trash cans tonight. Should I go ahead and start hypo tonight with all the fish, even with some ammonia and nitrites still in the tank?
 

scsinet

Active Member
No, if there is ammonia in the system you need to eliminate it ASAP and absolutely before you add any more fish; they will only make it worse.
Do water changes until it reads 0.0ppm
Remember that one large water change will get rid of it better than multiple small ones.
 

unleashed

Active Member
i reccomend 3 items to get your tang up and running again as long as your fish is eating it may be ok 1st buy some thera+A pellets by spectrum these are non medicated antiparestic formula sinking pellets fortified with vit for fish health(the best i have found as a prepaired food.) selcon and garlic extreme. feed your tang 4-5 times daily small amounts per feeding this amount for while the fish is showing signs it can be reduced to 2-3 times with the pellets after the ich is gone..dose the tank directly with selcon this is a much better advanced formula suppliment than zoecon.will also benafit all fish and inverts..also dose the tank daily with garlic extreme.. the fish will get these through absorbtion of the gills direct link to the bloodstream with no worries about the fish eating them and no ecess added waste particles to the tank.. this is how i treat ich on a normal basis without having to remove all of my fish from display
 

chutneyjh

Member
Originally Posted by SCSInet
No, if there is ammonia in the system you need to eliminate it ASAP and absolutely before you add any more fish; they will only make it worse.
Do water changes until it reads 0.0ppm
Remember that one large water change will get rid of it better than multiple small ones.
That makes sense. Here's the problem I'm having. Should I start hypo on the tang now since there's no much ich? Or should I wait until the tank is cycled and then add the other 2 fish and start hypo then?
I'm also wondering how the ammonia and nitrites will affect the fish, and at what levels they are super dangerous.
 

scsinet

Active Member
Ich lives in the sandbed. When the fish sleep, which is often close to the sandbed, new ich tomites attach. By putting the fish in isolation, you are allowing the trophonts attached to the fish to drop off, but since there is no infested sandbed, new ones waiting to attach will be fewer in number or non-existent. In your Kole tang's case, reducing the number of attached parasites is your #1 priority, and that means letting the ones that are on there fall off in an environment where new ones don't take their place.
Ergo, getting a fish that is already fighting the infection into isolation ASAP is critical. The other fish can wait. Therefore, wait until your QT has cycled to add the other fish and start hypo. Even if the waiting period leaves the tang with no sign of infection, starting the hypo regardless is critical.
As for your levels, any readable ammonia level is dangerous.
That's why you need to do a large water change on the QT to drop that level down, and continue doing large water changes at least every other day to keep it from building until your filter can take care of it.
You can also use a product called Prime from Seachem to neutralize ammonia on the "off days" (the days that you aren't changing water). You just have to stay on top of it, that's all.
 

chutneyjh

Member
Did I read something on here about lowering ph or something like that to make the ammonia less toxic to fish? I'm getting some nitrates now (between 15-20) so hopefully we're close to the end of the cycle.
 

chutneyjh

Member
Originally Posted by sepulatian
Try some chem marin's Stop Parasites. There is alot of debate on this board as to whether it works or not. I can say from personal experience that it worked for me. It will help knock some of the ich cysts off of your fish. It will not kill the ich, but will help reduce the number attatched. In the mean time keep your water quality as optimal as possible and add fresh garlic and vitamines to his food.
Do others agree with this? I definitely need something to get the ich off until the tank cycles and I can start hypo. This fish is covered in ich right now. I've been vacuuming the bottom of the tank with some airline a couple times a day to get as much out as I can.
The fish seems to be doing better. I fed formula one today with zoecon and fresh garlic and it ate well. I have an algea sheet in there too, but it hasn't touched that. I also added a powerhead today to keep the water ciruclating. I'll try to get a good picture as soon as I can so you all can tell me how bad you think the ich is.
Thanks for all your help.
Jen
 
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