Thinking of Starting a 29g Cube Seahorse Tank..Advice needed in advance!

[reeferchief]

Hi I recently upgraded to LED on my reef tank and I traded my T5 to someone for a 29g bio cube. I want to sell but my expensive better half wants to start a sea horse/mandarin tank.
After letting her talk me into it I did some research and see that the SG has to be around 1.019/20 so I can't also use as a frag tank it appears.
Obviously I have to let this tank cycle before I can add life. I plan on using base/dry rock and getting new sand. After reading, I should avoid using my current live rock and sand due to pathogens or predators that can harm a seahorse tank. Can I speed up cycle by using water from my current tank and lowering the SG and also using some filtermedia with bacteria on it already? Could I also use a little of my sand to speed up or is that a no no?
Also how many sea horses can I keep together?
As far as mandarin I know I have to let copepods populate or feed bottles of copepods regularly. How many mandarins can I keep and can they be mixed species? i know they have to be male female or 2 females, if kept in pairs.
Lastly how is the maintenance for this kind of tank opposed to the reef tank? Currently I do weekly 33% water change, change filter, and clean anything else needing it.
Sorry for all the questions but this is a totally new side of salt life for me and, unlike my first tank, I want to research as much as I can rather than just jumping into this side...
Thank You in advance!

 

[thumpco]

Madarins are hard to keep. Also remember they don't lik fast water movement b/c they swim so slow. I didn't really help but I don't know too much about seahorses.

 

[reeferchief]

I kow abot mandarins. I learned the hard way

 

[novahobbies]

Hmmm.....I don't think I would honestly recommend either Mandarins OR horses in a 29g all-in-one. They seem to be notorious tanks for seahorses (we have had a few people lose horses in those systems, no matter how hard they tried). All-in-one's tend to run warm, so a chiller is essential, and because the hood covers the surface you will need to make sure you have good gas exchange somehow. If you were going to try it, I wouldn't suggest more than 2 horses, and make sure they're one of the hardier species. You can read through the sticky threads on the top of this section of the forums for horse selection and husbandry.
As for Mandarins, you'll get a lot of different opinions. You might be able to keep a mandarin in a tank that small ONLY if you have a tank-raised ORA fish that you know is eating frozen. You will still need a way to source pods, as they like to graze, but the only way that fish will survive is if it's also eating mysis. You can check out an article from CORAL magazine from a month or two ago to reference some weaning procedures. I would strongly suggest you only try a Mandarin if you're a moderately experienced fish keeper. For safety's sake, only add one to the tank.

 

[saxman]

Most of the PnP (plug-n-play) tanks aren't really suitable for SH unless you do a bit of modding.
1) First, they all run too warm...most are right around 80*F, which is a good 6*F too high for SH. The reason is that SH are very prone to bacterial infections, and the bacterial count in a closed system goes WAY up at 75*F. You'll want to run the tank at 74*F max.
The fix:
Replace the stock pump with a cooler-running model (lower "Watts"). You can generally shave off 2*-3*F this way. You may also need to run a chiller, depending on how warm the tank is after changing the pump. Also, keep the little feeding door open to allow warm air to escape.
2) Depending on the pump rating, there may be too much flow for the SH. Altho they can handle more flow than you hear about in old info, they still need some quieter places to rest.
The fix:
Re-pump the tank or split the return so you can distribute the flow better.
3) The tanks are too short.
The fix:
None, The "optimum" tank height is 3x the SH uncurled length. HOWEVER, this is really only important if you plan on rearing fry, as the SH require the additional height to complete their coital spins and egg transfer (this is especially true of inexperienced pairs).
Finally, I STRONGLY urge you to acquire TRUE CB (captive bred) SH from a reputable breeder of hobbyist breeder rather than a LFS or non-SH-specialized e-tailers. SH ship well, and true CB stock will come to you happily eating frozen mysis and disease-free. I'd look into either H. erectus or H.reidi as first SH.
Don't fall for the "tank-raised" label you see at the LFS. A good indicator is whether they know the species and source of the SH in question. CB stock will typically run you $60 per SH or more, but you really do get what you pay for.
Oh, and the 24 will only be large enuff for a single pair...nix the mandy, as it will be in direct competition with the SH for any stray pods in the tank, and unless the mandy eats prepared foods, it will starve since the tank won't contain enuff LR for it to browse on.
Finally, be sure you really want to keep SH...they require daily feedings due to their rudimentary GI tract, so you'll need to make arrangements to have them cared for during vacations. A SH's GI tract can shut down irreversibly in as little as 4 days.
HTH you go into the SH thing with both eyes open...
Nova kinda beat me to it, but my post is pretty long...sorry.

 

[novahobbies]

I didn't beat you to anything. I gave the short, "here's-the-info-but-I'm-trying-to-leave-work-so-I'm-making-this-fast" version. You gave him the in-depth version with the whether-to's and why-for's.

Although IMO a captive bred ORA Mandarin would not be the most terrible mate for a pair of horses....just not necessarily in this kind of tank. Yes, there will be some grazing competition, but if both species are being regularly fed their frozen diet, this shouldn't be a stressor to either group. I would definitely hold the population to no more than 2 horses and one Mandarin, tho. And I would also strongly recommend a skimmer for the tank.

 

[reeferchief]

Hi thanks for all the replies. The cube has a skimmer with it. I was afraid of the cube for seahorses because it doesn't have a sump. I would really like to have the extra volume to add a little forgivness and also a place for copepods to populate. I am great with maintenance and daily feeding as it is now and when I go away I always have someone watch my tank.
I'm thinking I might just get a 30g tank and run a 20g sump for seahorses and either sell the cube or use it for a frag tank!

 

[saxman]

A std 29 gal is a much better footprint for SH, FWIW.
Nova,
I'm not so sure the ORA mandies have all the "bugs" out of them yet...I've read and heard of lots of them refusing prepared foods, so I'd be a bit leery of them in such a small box of water. As for the SH, they'd get along fine.

 

[novahobbies]

Quote:
Originally Posted by saxman http:///t/389791/thinking-of-starting-a-29g-cube-seahorse-tank-advice-needed-in-advance#post_3447466
A std 29 gal is a much better footprint for SH, FWIW.
Nova,
I'm not so sure the ORA mandies have all the "bugs" out of them yet...I've read and heard of lots of them refusing prepared foods, so I'd be a bit leery of them in such a small box of water. As for the SH, they'd get along fine.
Agreed on the 29g tank. I'd still keep the population to 2....at least to start.
OK, we're on sort of the same page about the Mandarin. I don't think a novice Mandarin keeper should try to keep one - even an ORA one - in a 29g all-in-one. I also have heard some stories here and there regarding the ORA dragonets refusing frozen food. HOWEVER, consider this: If a person was dead-set on getting a Dragonet, wouldn't you prefer it be an animal that has at least a slightly greater chance of survival, and more important...an animal that didn't come from the natural stock in the ocean? To be sure, this is just my opinion...but I'd rather a person "take a chance" on something that wasn't removed from the coral reef, rather than deplete the numbers of wild animals.
I guess you could call me a realistic conservationalist when it comes to these guys. I, like so many others, purchased WC mandarins, and I was lucky in that both of mine managed to learn how to eat frozen. Through no part of my own; I won't take that credit. Despite that "luck," if I ever chose to get another for a different tank, I would certainly spend the extra $$ and purchase one that was tank raised.
On a different note, I heard that most of the ORA mandarins DO take pellets of some sort or another....the trick is to find out what brand pellets they'll accept, and get them down to the sandbed for the mandarins to eat before the big guys swoop in. Feeding stations, etc.