What happened to cause all fish to die after 2 years?

[kleake]

I a 75 gallon with a 20 gallon sump, skimmer, ~75lbs live rock, some coral, and 5 fish. All has been running fine for 3 years, and the last two without any changes in fish or corals. Everything has been very healthy. Torch coral growing huge, Anemone split twice and is now 3. Coral banded shrimp molted several times. Everything doing good.
About 1 month ago I noticed alot of hair algae starting, and my sand was starting to grow a layer on it faster than my hermits could clean it. I figured my RO system was due for filters so I planned to change them out but hadn't done it yet. 2 days ago I noticed the anemone and the corals were not opening like normal and the algae had really taken off to the point it was trying to plug my overflow box.
Thinking my phosphates were probably high, and I had some water already mixed in my QT tank, i did my normal water change. (consists of mixing 10 gallons of RO saltwater in my QT tank with nothing in it. Let it circulate for a week or so, then drain 10 gallons out of the main, put this back in and all is good.)
The exception this time is the water had been circulating in the QT for 3 weeks. Nothing else in it, just water, salt, and a hob filter to circulate it. When I shut my system down to do the water change, the main pump didn't restart like normal, but it had done this once before and did restart about an hour later. This time it went all night without restarting. By morning I had lost one clown and the rest were looking stressed. I did a quick check of water temp and tried to get the pump going, but had to get to work.
When I got home, the other two clowns were at the top of the tank and not looking good. The tang and the angel looked stressed, but was acting fine. I checked my water parameters and all was at or near 0 and well within range. I did another 10 gallon water change to try and minimize anything I was not seeing, got the pump working correctly and tried to clean some of the algae from the sand bed and sides. Thinking with all of this, it would help things out.
I got up this morning, and 3 more fish were gone. I don't understand what went wrong with this water change as I have done plenty of changes this same way. The ONLY thing I know that was different was that my mixed water was circulating in the QT for 3 weeks instead of my normal 1 week. Would this cause my issues, or was it more the hair algae and phosphates getting out of control more of the issue?
I don't check my water parameters often as I do not add any chemicals. I monitor appearance, and check parameters occaisionally if something looks off. Every time I do check them, everything is right where I want it, so I don't disturb anything by adding stuff. Everything normally looks great, is clean, healthy and growing. I do slack on my water changes and have went several months without any, but within the last year I have been doing better with one every 4-6 weeks. Still, all looked good until a month ago when the hair algae started growing, and within the last week or two was beginning to get out of control. Its a 3 year old tank, with no changes in the last year at all.
Sorry about the long post, but thank in advance for any help.

 

[mombostic]

I also have a 75 and have had it for several years.
Like you, I got a little lax on maintenance for a while, and as a result, algae started to take over--nice, long, green algae. Once I got back into changing water a couple of times a month things improved. My main issue was that intakes were being clogged and flow was way down. In my experience this is a huge contributor to algae. Flow, flow, flow--that's my whole-hearted belief--for both inside the tank and on the surface.
As far as your fish, my thought is that your pump was down, algae was in bloom, and your oxygen levels got too low. Agitation of the water causes gas exchange at the surface. With low oxygen, the algae thrives and the fish can't. I read somewhere that when the power is off, it's importand to give the water in your tank a stir every so often so that the oxygen levels don't get too low.
When I improved my flow issues things started looking up, and I sucked up as much algae as I could with each water change. Now things are back to normal and have been for long time.
This is only a guess as to what may have happened based on my own experiences. I'm really sorry, though--I know this sucks.

 

[kleake]

You may be right. Algae was definitely in bloom, and with the pump down it made it worse. That morning I did move my HOB filter from my QT over to the main to provide some circulation until I could get home from work. It probably helped, but was too little, too late. I have a pretty good sump pump (RIO HF17), and it moves the tank water around pretty good, but I know I could use a little more. I have ordered a replacement since this one didn't start back up right. I might stick the old one in the tank for circulation, but it's probably way too much for in the tank unless I put something on it to diffuse the flow a little.
We had a power outage once that lasted 48hrs, everythingn looked good and I monitored it closely. Once power was restored, there was nothing that looked even stressed, so I wasn't too worried about the pump not working for a day until I could work on it. I didn't even think about the algae depleting oxygen quicker or I would have worked on it that night.
I just hope I can save some of the corals at this point. My torch coral was getting very large, and still looks ok, but is not opening. The main anemone is the same way as well as hundreds of mushrooms. I'll take it as a learning experience and do better in the future and being more proactive.
Besides many frequent water changes once my new RO filters come in, what is a good method to clean up the algae?

 

[smallreef]

Well you really have to look at the reason you got the algae in the first place... possibly over feeding a bit..so cut down on that and change your filters.. 2 years so yeah that didnt help with the algae .. bulbs possibly need changed also??
SO your easiest way to get rid of it is to hand pull what you can, trim what you cant pull off rocks so that snails will actually eat it..

 

[mombostic]

I just recently realized that I haven't restocked a cleanup crew in a LONG time, so I ordered some. How are you doing on crabs and snails?
Algae takes a while to come on, and it will take a while to go away. Make sure you have enough flow and plenty of surface agitation. Get back into good maintenance habits. I do changes twice a month, but I have a very small fish population, an anemone and one colt coral. Each time you do a change, use a nice, big hose and suck up as much algae as you can. Like the previous poster said, make sure you aren't over-feeding. I mentioned in another post that I'm not a big fan of any kind of sponges or filter floss or anything--especially when they are left in the tank all the time. My phrase is "crap trap." If you have anything like that, make sure and rinse it out a LOT.
I hope this helps. It takes a while, but you can get back on top of it. Try not to use chemicals that are made for getting rid of algae--I think doing it naturally over time is better. I'll say it again--flow, flow, flow--and agitate that surface.
Good luck!

 

[kleake]

Quote:
Originally Posted by smallreef http:///t/389903/what-happened-to-cause-all-fish-to-die-after-2-years#post_3449498
Well you really have to look at the reason you got the algae in the first place... possibly over feeding a bit..so cut down on that and change your filters.. 2 years so yeah that didnt help with the algae .. bulbs possibly need changed also??
I don't think I'm overfeeding as I don't feed more than once a day, and they eat everything I put in pretty quick. I actually feel I am underfeeding. I didn't mean I haven't changed my filters in 2 years, what I meant is there has been no changes to the tank habitat in 2 years. Filters are cleaned / replaced every couple of months, sides scraped monthly or bi-monthly as needed. Skimmer maintained regularly etc. Metal halides were changed about 8 months ago, but I am due for actinics as both have burned out. Yes, they are ordered and will be here friday. I figured less lighting would actually slow the algae growth as every time I change a bulb I get a small/medium angae bloom for a short time.
When I got home tonight, some of my snails are barely hanging on the glass, the anemones don't look very good and everything else is iffy. The thing that is puzzling me is that tonight I have alot of foam in my sump where the return from the tank comes into the sump. What would be causing it to foam up like this?

 

[mombostic]

I don't have a sump, so hopefully someone else will chime in here about that. The only thought I had was if something in your tank is dying--like an anemone--I think they can release toxic chemicals. Maybe that would cause that foaming reaction or harm your other tank inhabitants????? There's not a dead fish in there, is there? Just a thought. Now I'm just plain old guessing!

 

[kleake]

Defnitely no dead fish, they are all already gone. It could be an anemone. They all still have their color, but they are definitely closed up. I did another 10 gallon water change last night and cleaned some more algae out. The foam calmed down quite a bit so maybe it helped. I plan to do another 10 gallon change tonight. Hopefully keep any toxins and such to a minimum if at all possible.

 

[mombostic]

Are you running carbon? That will help get any kind of toxin or chemicals out of there.

 

[kleake]

No, i am not running any carbon, maybe I should add some. I did take the largest anemone out last night as I believe it did die. The two smaller ones still appear alive, just not open very much. I also did another 10 gallon water change and cleaned the sump more. Funny thing is, my coral banded shrimp is still kicking like nothing ever happened. That thing has been through everything as it was the first thing I bought almost 5 years ago when I started my little 5 gallon nano.

 

[mombostic]

I'd run some carbon for a few days for sure.
I've never had a coral banded shrimp, so I couldn't say. I've always heard that shrimp are sensitive to changes in water parameters, but who knows? Maybe some things they are sensitive to and some things they can tolerate pretty well.

 

[kleake]

After doing more reading, i am wondering if one of my anemones died causing my mass loss. As of now, 2 of the 3 anemones are gone, and the third is very small but looks ok, other than not being open except for a tiny bit. Probably as it was dying, it released toxins causing more problems. The only thing I haven't been able to locate is at what time during death does an anemone start to release these toxins? The reason is the fish died before I could tell the anemone was dead, but things were starting to close up and such in the week or two leading up to this.
Since I have lost everything except the coral banded shrimp, a few snails, and "maybe" a hermit crab or two, I might pull everything out and do a clean and rebuild. I wonder if I would be better off with a partial "start over" or would it be better just to let it set fallow for a month and do lots of water changes? I could pretty easily drain the water and clean it out other than a location for all of my live rock. Some could go in the sump, and some in the qt so overall I could just about get all of it out of there. I'm not sure I look forward to doing that though. :-(

 

[mr. limpid]

I read your post earlier and thought you figured it out, but it doesn't look like it. First I didn't see if you ever posted ant test results, ammonia, nitrates, PH and salinity. From my read it looks like your anemone died and cause a large ammonia spike. Dying anemone is easy to detect it looks as if it is turning inside out, unless it goes behind a rock so you cant see it die. What I suggest is, take reading of your present condition of your tank, remove anything dead, remove any uneaten food and detritus. Let tank go thru its re cycling when all your readings hit 0 again you'll be safe to start adding things back in. I also would just do normal water changes during the recycling period. Replace all filters in your RO system and then maintain RO system by replacing prefilters every 6 months, membrane as needed, have the LFS test your TDS every 6 months when you buy new prefilters.
Good Luck

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Limpid http:///t/389903/what-happened-to-cause-all-fish-to-die-after-2-years#post_3451029
I read your post earlier and thought you figured it out, but it doesn't look like it. First I didn't see if you ever posted ant test results, ammonia, nitrates, PH and salinity. From my read it looks like your anemone died and cause a large ammonia spike. Dying anemone is easy to detect it looks as if it is turning inside out, unless it goes behind a rock so you cant see it die. What I suggest is, take reading of your present condition of your tank, remove anything dead, remove any uneaten food and detritus. Let tank go thru its re cycling when all your readings hit 0 again you'll be safe to start adding things back in. I also would just do normal water changes during the recycling period. Replace all filters in your RO system and then maintain RO system by replacing prefilters every 6 months, membrane as needed, have the LFS test your TDS every 6 months when you buy new prefilters.
Good Luck
Hi and welcome to the site.
Like Mr Limpid asked what are the test results?
With hair algae you will get a false 0 on nitrates and phosphates because it feeds on it. What test kits are you using? How old are they?
Just so you know....For change water you only need to match the SG and let it churn for 24 hours to make sure it's dissolved, not a week. It shouldn't cause any issues, it just sounds like alot to go through for water changes.
It sounds like a water issue, hair algae is a clue to that. Just so you know...hair algae does not remove the oxygen from the tank...in fact the hair algae looks like crap but acts like any macro algae, removing the nitrates and phophates. It's good for the water quality. By overgrowing it will sufficate corals and clog filters...which might have caused a chain reaction of bad events. The anemone nor corals have any eyes, if they are being crowded out they release chemicals as a defense. Running carbon helps prevent chemical warfare, and removes toxins they already may have released. I don't think such chemical release would have killed the fish. (your clowns acted strange before the anemone closed up)
The filters not running however could be responsible...fish at the top of the tank seeking air hints to that. Is it possible a child, or by accident a chemical like soap could have gotten into the QT water? With nothing in the QT you wouldn't know there was a problem until the fish reacted to it when you put it in the DT.
Also add an equipment list...do you run power heads?

 

[kleake]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/389903/what-happened-to-cause-all-fish-to-die-after-2-years#post_3451036
Like Mr Limpid asked what are the test results?
With hair algae you will get a false 0 on nitrates and phosphates because it feeds on it. What test kits are you using? How old are they?
Amonia, nitrites, and nitrates are all at 0. The test kit is 3 years old, but I don't see why I would have elevated levels of any of these with no changes in the tank, and it has been established for 3 years. I don't test often, but I do if something isn't right. Phosphates were on the high side, but not terribly. i don't remember the number though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/389903/what-happened-to-cause-all-fish-to-die-after-2-years#post_3451036
Just so you know....For change water you only need to match the SG and let it churn for 24 hours to make sure it's dissolved, not a week. It shouldn't cause any issues, it just sounds like alot to go through for water changes.
I don't let it run for a week intentionally. Typically I am pretty busy, so one day when I have a few minutes, I fill the QT and add salt. Turn the pump on and let it run. Then a few days to a week later I do the change. In this case it was several weeks before I was able to get it done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/389903/what-happened-to-cause-all-fish-to-die-after-2-years#post_3451036
It sounds like a water issue, hair algae is a clue to that. Just so you know...hair algae does not remove the oxygen from the tank...in fact the hair algae looks like crap but acts like any macro algae, removing the nitrates and phophates. It's good for the water quality. By overgrowing it will sufficate corals and clog filters...which might have caused a chain reaction of bad events. The anemone nor corals have any eyes, if they are being crowded out they release chemicals as a defense. Running carbon helps prevent chemical warfare, and removes toxins they already may have released. I don't think such chemical release would have killed the fish. (your clowns acted strange before the anemone closed up)
The filters not running however could be responsible...fish at the top of the tank seeking air hints to that. Is it possible a child, or by accident a chemical like soap could have gotten into the QT water? With nothing in the QT you wouldn't know there was a problem until the fish reacted to it when you put it in the DT.
Also add an equipment list...do you run power heads?
I think this statement is pretty close. This wasn't just hair algae, but was a fuzzy stuff that was loose and could be pulled off in clumps and had hair algae mixed in. My anemone that had split into 3, was still all right next to each other, and I think what might have been happening is the algae was thriving and causing a small chemical warfare with some of that. When the pump quit, it made things much worse and the chemical warefare really fired up. This I think is what caused the fish to die due to the levels of toxins at this point. I did think about accidental contamination of the QT, but I don't think that is the case. The top of the QT is open, but I have a shelf not far from the top of it, and nothing above it except hard aquarium supplies, all chemicals are below, and it's a wall display, so everything is contained in the pantry area with mininmal activity in the room.
It's a 75 gallon with a 20 gallon sump, 100 gallon marineland skimmer, RIO HF17 pump running through a "squid" to alternate flow from one end to the other. I do have a couple of very small power heads, but really they don't do much. Water movement is what i would call "medium". It could be much better, but should be in the "ok" range. I do plan to crank up the flow though. ~75lbs live rock,

 

[mombostic]

Having a small amount of algae is possibly okay, and macro-algae is beneficial, but an abundance of micro-algae of any kind depletes oxygen levels. During the day when lights are on, the algae releases oxygen during their photosynthesis process, but they continue to respire on a cellular level at night when the lights go off, and they use up the oxygen. Also, algae is ALWAYS dying off, and the decomposition process uses oxygen. The more algae you have in bloom, the more is dying off....trouble. Add to that low flow rates, and you have a recipe for disaster.
Again, this is just my understanding of the situation.
I don't necessarily think you need to do a complete re-build. Like I said before, give it some time. Keep checking your levels, and when things are leveled off, add your clean-up crew and go slow.
For what it's worth, I have five powerheads--two big ones, three small ones--the skimmer and an HOB filter in my 75.

 

[lilclowns]

Old age? I hope you can get your tank back to where it was!

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mombostic http:///t/389903/what-happened-to-cause-all-fish-to-die-after-2-years#post_3451061
Having a small amount of algae is possibly okay, and macro-algae is beneficial, but an abundance of micro-algae of any kind depletes oxygen levels. During the day when lights are on, the algae releases oxygen during their photosynthesis process, but they continue to respire on a cellular level at night when the lights go off, and they use up the oxygen. Also, algae is ALWAYS dying off, and the decomposition process uses oxygen. The more algae you have in bloom, the more is dying off....trouble. Add to that low flow rates, and you have a recipe for disaster.
Again, this is just my understanding of the situation.
I don't necessarily think you need to do a complete re-build. Like I said before, give it some time. Keep checking your levels, and when things are leveled off, add your clean-up crew and go slow.
For what it's worth, I have five powerheads--two big ones, three small ones--the skimmer and an HOB filter in my 75.
...but didn't kleake say he/she went to work..so it was day time, unless lights were off.

but without the pumps running who knows.
My last battle with hair algae was the result of no power for 4 days, and I opened the window shades to let some light in so the seahorses would eat.... direct sunlight and saltwater tanks do not mix well, what a mess. ...but my seahorses survived.

 

[mombostic]

Yes, you're right, kleake was gone, but I think algae had been an issue for a while. Maybe the pump shutting down was the straw that broke the camel's back. Like I said, I'm just offering slightly educated guesses.
I don't have much of a fancy set-up, but we do have a generator. We lost power for over a week last winter, and that thing was a life-saver.
(I know this has nothing to do with anything, Flower, but seahorses are so fascinating to me!)

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mombostic http:///t/389903/what-happened-to-cause-all-fish-to-die-after-2-years#post_3451152
Yes, you're right, kleake was gone, but I think algae had been an issue for a while. Maybe the pump shutting down was the straw that broke the camel's back. Like I said, I'm just offering slightly educated guesses.
I don't have much of a fancy set-up, but we do have a generator. We lost power for over a week last winter, and that thing was a life-saver.
(I know this has nothing to do with anything, Flower, but seahorses are so fascinating to me!)
Oh I love them, they come to the feeding spot like puppies to eat. They are very messy, I have to shut all the pumps off so they can eat...I need critters to help them eat the wasted food, but I'm limited on what can be in the tank with them. The red in the tank is a macro algae.
I love to share...the pavalon is over 12 inches tall, to give you an idea of their size.