Which first: Live rock or substrate?

mab

New Member
I am getting conflicting advise. Some newbie authors advocate placing live rock directly on the glass bottom of a new tank and then then substrate around the rock; this to reduce potential anaerobic spots. Others advise placing the rock on top of the sand. Any thoughts? <img src="graemlins//eek.gif" border="0" alt="[eek]" />
 

brooklyn johnny

Active Member
IMO, it is better to carefully position the rock along the glass bottom before the substrate. I just make sure there are no major pressure points. If it were placed on the sand or substrate I worry more later on that it may poke through while something is digging or a gravel wash. As long as it is placed carefully, I see nothing wrong with placing along the glass bottom.
 

mab

New Member
Thanks, but why is it better to put the rock on top the sand vs. the other way around?
 

mab

New Member
Thanks so much for the prompt responses. That's 2 pro rock on top (just because it seems to work) and 1 pro rock on bottom with a very good reason - hmmm....
 

mab

New Member
Thanks Ed for such elegant answer. So it is true regarding anaerobic spots and posible tumbling. I will go with rock first in my new 55.
 

fshhub

Active Member
we put ours in first then the sand around it, for BOTH of the reasons listed above, especially after having some gobies(firefish), even though they are not burrowers, they do like to hide under the rock, and will clean a way in and out, this could be a big problem for an unstable stack on top of the sand
 

broomer5

Active Member
I think it's a personal choice, although each way has it's advantages and disadvantages;
Rock first on bare glass bottom then sand:
In most cases will make stacked rockwork more stable in the long haul, especially if you have burrowing fish, clowns or inverts that like to dig and distrupt the sand. Most substrates eventually will disolve and settle to some degree over time. As mentioned - pressure points can be a problem as more weight above is concentrated on a smaller area, especially in deep tanks with a lot of stacked rock. If using a shallow sand bed, rock on the bottom may reduce potential for areas of anerobic to exist, although I don't see this as a big factor in making this decision.
Sand first then rock: If you are going with a DSB for natural nitrate reduction, I would go with the sand on bare glass bottom first, then add your live rock. You gain a much more consistent DSB this way - 4-6 inches of sand throughout the entire bottom of the tank. If this is your case, then a lot of burrowing, large sand disturbing creatures should be avoided, or your DSB won't be one for long. Additionally, adding the sandbed first, the weight of the stacked rockwork is more evenly spread out over the entire bottom of the glass tank, and in deep tanks with a lot of rock this can be a slight advantage.
It's a give and take. You may gain or lose some benefits by going either way. I think it's a matter of what your ultimate goal is of your sandbed. Rock stability and aesthetics versus nitrate reduction.
Makes me wonder if laying down some sort of very strong plastic gridwork table like eggcrate, with a lot of evenly spaced 4 inch legs wouldn't serve to add stability and allow for a consistent DSB. May cause too much weight on too small an area though.
I dunno ...
I laid my sand down first.
 

fshhub

Active Member
i got a question so bear with me sharks(the following is a question on my theory)
actually the surface area of the bed would be halved either way, yes you would have more bacteria, but the food and detritus still need to get to the sand to be broken down, so hiding it would still be nearly the same as not having it?? so my question is would stacking the rock on top of the sand be like having a full bed, the bacteria wont do anyting with detritus if it does not come in contact with it would it?
and snails and worms all burrow, which you want in a dsb, now i do agree that you do not want fish and such that disturb the sand bed, but some fish do like to hang out under the rock and do mke entrances without burrowing bu tjust sweeping it out of their way so they can get in, but his does clear out some of the area under the side
<img src="graemlins//angel.gif" border="0" alt="[angel]" /> tanks sammy and broomer(or anyone else)
 

mab

New Member
Thanks, Broomer5 and Sammystingray. Your expert reasoning clears it up for me. Since I am only going with <2 inch sand bed on the 55 gal and planning on sand rearraging critters such as Jawfish, crabs, etc. I will go with the LR first -possibly supported by PVC pipe structures to avoid potential mishaps in the future - and then the live sand around it. Nice job.
 

mab

New Member
Oops, didn't know 2 inches was a no-no; I guess I'll cut down to one. Is this enough for the jawfish? Thanks for the feedback Ed. :)
 

fshhub

Active Member
actually a jawfish should have 5 or more inches, they themselves need enough to burrow in, sorry but you are kinda between a rock and a sandy place with that one, however, i have seen them in tanks with almost no sand, they do survive, but cannot build a burrow in the sand, and they still cna sift for pods too
 
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