you ever think about just getting out of it?

[beth]

Hi,

So now I put my 90g and the 56g tall tank, up for sale on Craig's list. My heart really isn't into selling it, my first paycheck when I was 15 years old, was spent on a 10g tank... I really don't think I will be very happy without any kind of fish tank, so maybe something smaller... I may even consider a reef if it's easy enough for me to manage, but then...I would still have to put water in the mixing tub... sigh

Have you thought of just lowering one of the existing tanks so that it would be comfortable for you to do the maintenance? It would take a lot of work to rebuild the tank, but it also takes a lot to sell the whole tank (believe me I know because I went through it). It was quite emotional as I was attached to everything in the tank, even my carefully cultivated DSB. If you had some initial help with hauling, you could probably do a design that would accommodate your need without missing out on something you love. Check around to see if a custom table/stand could be made to accommodate a lowered tank. There are online vendors (which is where I got my awesome custom canopy). Perhaps if you are in a larger city, you'll fine some local carpenters. Not everything has to cost an arm and leg either. You've already invested an arm and leg which you won't get back with a resale.

 

[jay0705]

This is true. For my upgrade I'am have my stand built. Its fairly cheap depending how nice u want.

 

[beth]

+



Well perhaps English is not my best thing.

Kinda thought I was saying that the effect of water changes is the tank winds up to a point where the build up between water changes is removed by the water change. for example a 1/10 water change results in 10 times the build up. 1/20 water change 20 times the build and so on.

If that's jiggerish then so be it.

my .02

Are you saying that the water used for wate changes results in a build up in the tank of what is in the water? If so, a valid point, but that is why you use RODI systems and TDS meters. Source water is important.

 

[seecrabrun]

+



Well perhaps English is not my best thing.

Kinda thought I was saying that the effect of water changes is the tank winds up to a point where the build up between water changes is removed by the water change. for example a 1/10 water change results in 10 times the build up. 1/20 water change 20 times the build and so on.

If that's jiggerish then so be it.

my .02

I'm sorry. I did not mean to make you feel incompetent at English.

I still don't understand what you are saying, but I don't think it is that it is jibberish. I think it is going over my head.

I personally do a weekly water change of 10% with the intent to remove any impurities and replenish any minerals. Sometimes it is redundant as the levels are already correct, but I've made it a habit so I don't forget or slack when it does matter.

I'm still very new though and don't have the wisdom or understanding of people who have been at it much much longer.

I appreciate everyone's input, but sometimes it is lost on me because it is just beyond me at that moment. I think eventually it will click though, and probably when I need it most.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Macroalgae and corals do release certain compounds in the water column including tannins and terpenoids. If your not running carbon on a regular basis, it can build up without regularly scheduled water changes.

There are too many natural chemicals in seawater that build up due to biological processes in a fully established reef system. Such as certain toxins released by corals during chemical warfare. That is not removed by the biological activity of macroalgae.

Relying on, and recommending to new hobbyists that macroalgae and absolutely no water changes without the additions of trace minerals and major elements such as calcium and magnesium is irresponsible and dangerous.

 

[flower]

Have you thought of just lowering one of the existing tanks so that it would be comfortable for you to do the maintenance? It would take a lot of work to rebuild the tank, but it also takes a lot to sell the whole tank (believe me I know because I went through it). It was quit emotional as I was attached to everything in the tank, even my carefully cultivated DSB. If you had some initial help with hauling, you could probably do a design that would accommodate your need without missing out on something you love. Check around to see if a custom table/stand could be made to accommodate a lowered tank. There are online vendors (which is where I got my awesome custom canopy). Perhaps if you are in a larger city, you'll fine some local carpenters. Not everything has to cost an arm and leg either. You've already invested an arm and leg which you won't get back with a resale.

Thanks for the idea... I'm not sure if I would want a tank that low, it is eye level as it is when I sit down, but I suppose I could get used to it, better then no tank at all. I will check online and see if I can find a picture where somebody has done that.

Snake, I have to agree with you, tossing in macros and never doing a thing to your tank wouldn't work. I think sometimes we forget just how much we do and don't mention it. Sort of like that show called Tanked, they give the impression you can fill a tank and add fish right then and there

 

[pegasus]

Hi,

I'm 5'5...the 90g tank top without the canopy is 52", my canopy isn't heavy, but it's bulky, so far I can still manage to remove that, and the lights are on a pulley system... I use a step ladder to reach into the tank to harvest the macros, that seem to really like the rockwork in the very back.

My feet are deformed from wearing steel toed boots for 35 years on the railroad, and I have flat feet, literally no arch, and have now developed arthritis on top of everything else. There is a reason you can't be a soldier if you have flat feet. Walking has become so painful, that even the few short trips to the kitchen for RO water, to dump on the other side of the kitchen where my RO mixing tub is on it's own, a huge undertaking. My knees are shot from climbing stairs and trains, and my back is so bad I can't bend over for long (as in a few moments), then add my weight which is another big problem, stemming from not being able to do anything, until I became disabled my weight wasn't a problem.

So now I put my 90g and the 56g tall tank, up for sale on Craig's list. My heart really isn't into selling it, my first paycheck when I was 15 years old, was spent on a 10g tank... I really don't think I will be very happy without any kind of fish tank, so maybe something smaller... I may even consider a reef if it's easy enough for me to manage, but then...I would still have to put water in the mixing tub... sigh

Flower, there has to be a way to make it easier for you to mix saltwater. I'm not disabled (yet), but I like things to be easy. Yeah... call me lazy. I have a siphon (U-shaped clear tubing) with a flexible hose attached in my tank and going to my drain. I suction the hose, and it drains to a predetermined level (1/5 of the tank... 25%). I also have my RO/DI product line attached to my refugium's ATO, as well as my mixing vat. The same pump that I use to mix my saltwater also serves as a fill pump. When the water's ready, I attach another hose with a U-tube in the tank to the pump, and turn the pump on until the tank is filled. No lugging 25 gallons of water around for me... please. My method is a bit crude, but it works like a charm. Hopefully you can come up with something similar to make it easier for you.

 

[seecrabrun]

I have a bad back (spondylolisthesis caused by a broken pars on my L5). There are times when I can't get out of the bed or stand for more than a few minutes, so I can empathize.

It's one of the biggest reasons I keep small tanks.

I keep a RODI reservoir on a stand that has a spout at the bottom. Then I have a bucket on wheels that I roll under the spout and I mix the salt in the bucket and wheel it to the other room. Sometimes I have to sit in an office chair and wheel around with it.

Luckily my house is all 1 story on a slab, so there aren't any steps or thresholds of any kind.

You can get a 10g brute trash can and put it on one of those rolling planter carts, or get a cart with handle or a wagon.

I just work in small batches. I do 2g at a time for mixed water, but in my tanks that is a 10% change for one and then I do 2 buckets in the other and that's a 15% change for that one.

 

[seecrabrun]

Oh and to get the water from the bucket to the tank you can get a little 80gph pump on amazon for $7 and use airline tubing or RO tubing and it is slow but not that slow.

You can also use a larger pump or a power head that has a nozzle as the outlet. You can use the pump to mix the water and then attach the hose.

 

[flower]

Oh and to get the water from the bucket to the tank you can get a little 80gph pump on amazon for $7 and use airline tubing or RO tubing and it is slow but not that slow.

You can also use a larger pump or a power head that has a nozzle as the outlet. You can use the pump to mix the water and then attach the hose.

I did, and do use a hose and the utility pump to send the change water to the tank...I can't run a line to the mixing tub from the RO unit at the sink...My house is very small, that would block the door, or the dogs would get tangled in the line. The tub is directly across the kitchen from the sink between the back door and the living room walkway. I have two German shepherds that my mother thinks needs to go out every 20 minutes...in between her offering them goodies from the refrigerator, like the ribs I cooked for 4 hours, or that pound of cheese I just bought

I do use a brute can...37g..no way could I push that thing around even on wheels. I thought about furniture wheels real hard...they move pianos don't they.

 

[seecrabrun]

try smaller amounts, it takes longer, but I find it easier on my physically than big amounts.

 

[beth]

Making all that tooooooo difficult. Try out the once daily water change. Next to no effort. Don't need to syphon or use hoses.

You can see how low this particular stand is going to be.

 

[beaslbob]

"My" water change analysis is confusing when briefly stated until one thinks about it.

and old thread here explains in a hopefully light hearted humorous way:

https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/index.php?threads/beaslbobs-water-change-analysis.369985/#post-3183747

My analysis is simplified to where does the tank wind up as opposed to all the intermediate values.

To Beth's point sure if nothing is increasing or decreasing due to the biological actions in the system, then the tank winds up at whatever the replacement water had. 30ppm nitrate or 400ppm calcium water means the tank will wind up at 30ppm nitrates and 400ppm calcium.

If the tank starts out at say 0 nitrates and 400ppm calcium and nitrates are increasing at 1ppm/day and calcium is decreasing a 1 ppm/day and the replacement water has 0 nitrates and 400ppm calcium, then where does the tank wind up when the values just after a water change are always the same?

In order for that to happen the total changes between water changes must be removed by the water change. So those changes will build up until the water change completely removes the total change.

If you change 1/10 of the water the tank will build up to 10 times the changes. So the 1/10 water change completely removes the buildup.
1/20 the tank builds up to 20 times and so on.

So for a 1/10 water change every 10 days, the tank will build up to 10 times the changes. The total change is 10*1ppm=10ppm. The tank builds up to 10ppm*10=100ppm. So nitrates will be 100ppm and calcium will be 400ppm-100ppm=300ppm. the nitrates removed by the water change is 100ppm/10=10ppm. Then after the water changes nitrates will be 100ppm-10=90ppm. The calcium added is 400ppm/10=+40ppm. the calcium removed is -300ppm/10=-30ppm/ So the calcium after the water change is 300ppm+40ppm-30ppm=310ppm. The just before the next water change the values are 90+10ppm=100ppm nitrates and 310-10=300ppm calcium.

Sure that's a lot of math hence my simplification that the tank winds up to a pint where the water changes completely remove the changes.

By contrast if you consume all nitrates all the time with algae or bacteria nitrates will be unmeasureable regardless of the water change schedule.

And if you dose calcium exactly as it is being consumed, calcium will be 400ppm regardless of the water change schedule.

Hence my point what is important is to balance out and stabilize the system so the nitrates and calcium are not changing. At that point the frequency and size of water changes are irrelevant.

But all that's it probably too long winded also.

Bottom line is creating an environment which does not change is more effective than water changes convenient to hobbiests.

my .02

 

[seecrabrun]

That still went over my head LOL

I'll see if reading the thread helps any.

 

[seecrabrun]

OK are you saying that because nitrates are forever climbing then you have to do more volume of water changes to get the same effect over time?

Because if so then that makes total sense. And is why I base the size or frequency of water change on my test results. When nitrates are low I stick to my 10% a week. When they climb I do a larger percent that week or I do multiple small changes through that week.

My nitrates aren't consistently climbing at the same rate as I don't feed them the same food all the time. Some weeks they just get dry, some they get frozen, some they get both.
Which would be why I don't consistently change the same amount.

When I do water changes larger than 15% I use the continuous method for water changes so it isn't as much of a shock.

 

[silverado61]

I'm sorry beaslbob but I just had to count. That's 26 times you used the word "Change" in your post.

But, what you had to say does have it's merits and makes sense.

In a nut shell, as long as the tank is running smooth with macros, parameters shouldn't change and you shouldn't have to change a thing and no change is a good thing..... for a change.

Unless you changed your mind.

 

[beth]

Well, to speak logically and with a bit of science to back up, we need to know what the "elephants" are and what happens to them in the aquaria. Are they naturally used up, do they accumulate and cause harm or ary theyt benign? I would tend to agree that if your aquaria remains pretty stable parameters, such as pH, nitrates, calcium, etc., then you certainly don't need to be killing yourself with water changes, however, unless you have a balanced reef tank, I'm not sure how that would happen wo water changes (maybe with some natural filters on the side such as a refugium)?

 

[bang guy]

To determine how effective Beaslbob's methods are all we need is a picture of his beautiful tank.

 

[snakeblitz33]

I tried the no-water change route for a year or so. It doesn't work. Not effectively enough anyway. Elements are consumed and bound within the tissues of various reef building organisms. Some of these elements are bound and used way more frequently than others.

Also, if your adding calcium chloride to the tank, your tipping the scale of chloride ions in the tank over time. If your using magnesium sulfate -then you will be unbalanced again, tipping the amount of sulfate in the system. So, by doing water changes, it removes elements that are building up because of the use of additives.

Also, growing and harvesting macroalgae a require more than just nitrate and phosphate to make their tissues. Any various species of caulerpa could have many, many elements that comprise it's tissues, and once you harvest the macroalgae, those elements will be deficient. You simply can not test for everything and have enough supplements and time to dose what is bound up and removed. The absolute most effective way of keeping balanced water chemistry is to simply change a portion of water on a regular basis.

I'd like to see another pic of Bobs wonderful "thriving" reef tank again soon. Oh wait, I might have a pic somewhere,...

 

[flower]

Making all that tooooooo difficult. Try out the once daily water change. Next to no effort. Don't need to syphon or use hoses.

You can see how low this particular stand is going to be.

Hi... I don't think I will lower the tank, for now anyway, I would have to break the whole thing down like I'm moving just to do that, which is much harder then climbing a step ladder. If I ever have to move the tank, I will consider doing that for sure. I may be replacing my carpet in a few years for hard floors. That would be the perfect time for such a project.

I'm going to do the small daily water changes, as you suggested, it really sounds like the prefect solution. I know when I harvest the macros, I lose a little water and replace it (less then a gallon) but the tank always looks so crystal clear and happy afterwards....so a small daily water change will do it a world of good I think.