Filtration Options

[Connorer]

I've had my tank set up for about 2 months now (180L, Juwel bio filter and protein skimmer), and everything seems to be doing well, but I absolutely hate the protein skimmer, it's ugly, takes up loads of room and it's ridiculously loud!
I'm planning on getting a EHEIM external filter (probably the 600L one, as I plan on upgrading the tank size in about a year), and the UV attatchment for it, and I was wondering wether or not i'll still need the skimmer if I have this - as I said, i have no corals, 4 shrimp, 2 snails, 6 hermit crabs, a red starfish, 2 firefish, 2 clowns and a cleaner wrasse.
So will i still need it? Or will the UV be just as good in killing organic matter (and the extra capabilities of the 600L, with the jewel biofilter should be capable of removing the same (or more) amount of organic matter surely?)

Thanks!

 

[bang guy]

The filter you are considering will remove particulate matter. Your skimmer removes dissolved organic compounds (DOCs). DOCs are the result of the breakdown of organic waste. The type of waste your new filter will break down into DOCs. This material cannot be removed by a filter pad or biologic filter. It can best be removed by changing water or skimming (foam fractionating). If you clean the filter daily then yes, you would be removing these organics before they break down into DOCs. If you don't plan on cleaning out all of the trapped material from the filter daily then I recommend keeping a skimmer. It's not a requirement but when something bad happens your skimmer will probably be the difference between sick fish and a total tank crash.

In my opinion the UV will not have any positive effect on your system. I would recommend spending the money on something else.

 

[Connorer]

The filter you are considering will remove particulate matter. Your skimmer removes dissolved organic compounds (DOCs). DOCs are the result of the breakdown of organic waste. The type of waste your new filter will break down into DOCs. This material cannot be removed by a filter pad or biologic filter. It can best be removed by changing water or skimming (foam fractionating). If you clean the filter daily then yes, you would be removing these organics before they break down into DOCs. If you don't plan on cleaning out all of the trapped material from the filter daily then I recommend keeping a skimmer. It's not a requirement but when something bad happens your skimmer will probably be the difference between sick fish and a total tank crash.

In my opinion the UV will not have any positive effect on your system. I would recommend spending the money on something else.

So it is necessary even in a tank without corals then? (Just it seems to be a massively divided opinion)
And is it easy to clean the filter daily? I do a 20L water change every 2 weeks anyway if that makes any difference (usually done by using a gravel cleaner on the sand, where I tend to get an algae build up)

Thanks again for your answering! Extremely helpful

PS. With you saying that the UV will not have a positive effect, I was considering it because when I was considering purchasing a regal tang, I was told by the advisor that they are prone to white spot, and in a tank the size of mine it would quickly spread, so a UV attachment would be advisable to prevent it spreading.

And PSS. (Sorry, I am new so I have about a million and one questions), if I do need the skimmer, is there a small inconspicuous one that you know of that is also quiet?

 

[bang guy]

A million question is great That's why the forum is here. Keep in mind that for every question there are multiple right answers. Each tank is different and one answer does not cover every situation.

As I mentioned, a skimmer is not a requirement. It's more than a nice to have though. There are a lot of nice systems that do not have a skimmer but I think you'll find that the majority of healthy systems have a skimmer and the majority of unhealthy systems do not.

As far as UV - UV does have the ability to kill Ick (White Spot). It will also reduce the diatoms and other algae. Unfortunately the vast majority of UV systems in the hobby are far too small to have much effect on Ick. And even if it is a powerful enough UV to kill ICK it will not eliminate it from your tank.

The best way to treat Ick is to prevent it from entering your system. This can be done by quarantining all of your fish in a separate tank before allowing them into your display.

One last comment that is only my opinion but it is based on experience is that I believe a Regal Tang requires at least 6 feet of swimming space or they often start showing abnormal behavior.

 

[geridoc]

So it is necessary even in a tank without corals then? (Just it seems to be a massively divided opinion) Skimmers are probably not important in a well-run FOWLR system. In a reef (coral) skimming can be very important since, while corals use DOCs for nutrition, they are usually very sensitive to elevated levels. There are several ways to control DOC, and skimming is one of the tried and true ways. Changing water can also keep DOC low, but it requires substantial changes to stay ahead as the bioload of the system increases over time. The third way to export DOC is with macroalgae, either growing in a sump or as part of an algae scrubber
And is it easy to clean the filter daily? I do a 20L water change every 2 weeks anyway if that makes any difference (usually done by using a gravel cleaner on the sand, where I tend to get an algae build up) A saltwater tank should be fun. Cleaning filters every day is not fun. Enough said!

Thanks again for your answering! Extremely helpful

PS. With you saying that the UV will not have a positive effect, I was considering it because when I was considering purchasing a regal tang, I was told by the advisor that they are prone to white spot, and in a tank the size of mine it would quickly spread, so a UV attachment would be advisable to prevent it spreading. UV can be helpful when there are multiple tanks sharing water. The UV irradiation may kill organisms in the water column. However, when used in a single tank there will always be organisms that aren't captured by the UV because they weren't in the water taken into the pump, so infection is still possible. If you are concerned about introducing white spot disease (ich) into your tank you should take the advice of most of the experienced aquariasts on this site and set up a quarantine tank and put all incoming livestock into it for several weeks (4-6 is the usual recommendation).

And PSS. (Sorry, I am new so I have about a million and one questions), if I do need the skimmer, is there a small inconspicuous one that you know of that is also quiet?

 

[Connorer]

Ok i'll have an extra think about the UV to see if it's worth it, and it's probably best to wait until i have a bigger tank then before getting a regal tang.

As for the quarantine tank, i've set one up but it's only 28l, i have it more for emergencies than quarantining when they come in (it currently houses a very aggressive hermit crab that killed one of my snails, little *****) Is it big enough? As i can't really afford more, this tank has taken me quite over my money limit tbh

 

[beaslbob]

One of the best ways of prevent ich is to provide a healthy balanced stable environment. So the fish's immune system resists it.

my .02

 

[pegasus]

I started with a fish only tank, a skimmer, and a refugium with macros. As time went on, I wanted some color, so I added a few soft corals. More time went by, and I added some LPS corals. Even more time went by, and I crept into the mysterious world of SPS. From the beginning, I thought I would only raise fish and inverts, but obviously... the system evolved over time. It happens...

I may have gotten by without a skimmer in the early days, but I have never regretted having it from day one. I struggled to keep my tank water clean. Even with frequent water changes, it was difficult to do. I can't imagine how bad it would have been without the skimmer! I still feed my fish twice a day, and somewhat generously. I spot feed my corals once every week or two. Yet... I change water only once a month... or two... if I feel like it. I only change it to replenish some of the trace minerals that I don't dose. I haven't tested Nitrate this week (will tomorrow), but last week it was .5 ppm. With the addition of a GFO reactor, Phosphate was .16 ppm last week. I contribute this to having a good skimmer.

I never even considered a canister filter, as I knew I didn't want to deal with the constant maintenance of filter changing, cleaning, etc., much less the expense involved with replacing filters. Thanks... but no thanks. My system works great, and my tank inhabitants are very happy.

Ok i'll have an extra think about the UV to see if it's worth it, and it's probably best to wait until i have a bigger tank then before getting a regal tang.

As for the quarantine tank, i've set one up but it's only 28l, i have it more for emergencies than quarantining when they come in (it currently houses a very aggressive hermit crab that killed one of my snails, little *****) Is it big enough? As i can't really afford more, this tank has taken me quite over my money limit tbh

It's a bit small, but it'll work for medium to small fish as there shouldn't be any more than two or three at any given time. I used a 10 gallon tank for a QT when I bought a Flame Angel, so it should be fine for anything you'll be putting into your tank.

There's no need to "time out" the hermit... as snail predation by hermits is a fact of life. It's going to happen, so you'll either have to get used to it, or get rid of the hermits. Hermits outgrow their shells, and have to find a new, larger home. This is the main reason they attack snails, but sometimes they're just mean and want to make a meal of a smaller snail. Even so, having plenty of empty (assorted sizes) shells helps reduce the snail's death toll.

 

[silverado61]

I removed all my hermits but one and tossed them into the sump. Kept dining on my snails the little bastards.

 

[Connorer]

One of the best ways of prevent ich is to provide a healthy balanced stable environment. So the fish's immune system resists it.

my .02

I think i've done this, its just come out of the first cycle so all the levels are pretty much 0 now (test them weekly just to make sure), what else would you recommend?

I started with a fish only tank, a skimmer, and a refugium with macros. As time went on, I wanted some color, so I added a few soft corals. More time went by, and I added some LPS corals. Even more time went by, and I crept into the mysterious world of SPS. From the beginning, I thought I would only raise fish and inverts, but obviously... the system evolved over time. It happens...

I think that is probably what will happen with me, but not in this tank i don't think - i'm only starting with a 180l because i wanted to see if it would be something I could actually cope with, rather than going straight for the 600l i eventually want, plus i live on the third floor, so it would have been a pain in the ass to get up the stairs! I think when I move to a house in a couple of years (once i've finished uni!) i'll start looking at bigger tanks and corals, and then i can make this one a tropical tank

I may have gotten by without a skimmer in the early days, but I have never regretted having it from day one. I struggled to keep my tank water clean. Even with frequent water changes, it was difficult to do. I can't imagine how bad it would have been without the skimmer! I still feed my fish twice a day, and somewhat generously. I spot feed my corals once every week or two. Yet... I change water only once a month... or two... if I feel like it. I only change it to replenish some of the trace minerals that I don't dose. I haven't tested Nitrate this week (will tomorrow), but last week it was .5 ppm. With the addition of a GFO reactor, Phosphate was .16 ppm last week. I contribute this to having a good skimmer.

I love how clean it keeps the tank, the water in the canister comes out black so I really can see that it makes a difference, the only problem is the noise - before i got the skimmer (about 2 weeks after i got the tank) the tank was 100% silent, which was brilliant, as the little 28l tank (which then held goldfish, before they went into a bigger one, and this became a quarantine which i've not used bar the hermit crab) was louder than it! Now, i have to have the TV blasting to overcome the noise, which drives me mad - do you know of any silent brands then? The back of the cabinet below would allow me to fit an external one if necessary, but preferably budget ones.

I never even considered a canister filter, as I knew I didn't want to deal with the constant maintenance of filter changing, cleaning, etc., much less the expense involved with replacing filters. Thanks... but no thanks. My system works great, and my tank inhabitants are very happy.

I never realised they were so much work, the reason i was considering changing was because of the cost of replacing filter pads, and because the lfs recommended the UV thing, although as i now realise that was probably a sales technique


It's a bit small, but it'll work for medium to small fish as there shouldn't be any more than two or three at any given time. I used a 10 gallon tank for a QT when I bought a Flame Angel, so it should be fine for anything you'll be putting into your tank.

Good, i'll stick to that then, i've never actually quarantined anything because I wasn't sure. but the biggest i have are 2 fire fish, and with the size of my tank i probably won't be going bigger. It's a peaceful tank anyway, so i'd rather get them as small as possible - no chance anything will eat it!

There's no need to "time out" the hermit... as snail predation by hermits is a fact of life. It's going to happen, so you'll either have to get used to it, or get rid of the hermits. Hermits outgrow their shells, and have to find a new, larger home. This is the main reason they attack snails, but sometimes they're just mean and want to make a meal of a smaller snail. Even so, having plenty of empty (assorted sizes) shells helps reduce the snail's death toll.

Haha, it wasn't that i was timing out the snail, i just moved it into there to stop it killing my other two, i'm moving them all into there now, and when i've got them all i'll probably take them back to the shop or something. Strangely enough i ordered a pack of 20 shells off eBay, and apparently they'd rather kill my snails than go into them.

Thanks for your advice, much appreciated !

 

[Connorer]

I removed all my hermits but one and tossed them into the sump. Kept dining on my snails the little bastards.

Haha, think i'm going to be doing the same thing, was absolutely fuming (although i haven't got a sump, so it'll be back to the fish shop