New SW Aquarium 1st timer....troubles!!

[hannahms95]

I just set up my very first SW aquarium 4 days ago. Its a 15 gallon with live sand and live rock. my LPS gave me the OK to go ahead and put a couple damselfish in my tank to help start its cycling. They weren't anything expensive but I am a fish fanatic so it broke my heart to see my two little guys start acting very lethargic and laying sideways on the sand bottom. This caught me off guard being that they both seemed to very happy fish for the first 24 hours, swimming and eating just fine. It seemed that this behavior just started out of nowhere and within 4 hours after this my lemon damselfish stiffened and stopped breathing. My Blue Damsel is acting the same way and sadly I don't think he will make it through the night.. I did a 25% water change once I noticed the behavior. I just had my water checked yesterday at my LPS and everything looked fine. My current SG is 1.023 and the temp. is 78 Degrees F. I just cant understand what happened and what went wrong. I am completely mind-boggled at what just happened. Can anybody give me some answers?

 

[Eloy Cardenas]

I just set up my very first SW aquarium 4 days ago. Its a 15 gallon with live sand and live rock. my LPS gave me the OK to go ahead and put a couple damselfish in my tank to help start its cycling. They weren't anything expensive but I am a fish fanatic so it broke my heart to see my two little guys start acting very lethargic and laying sideways on the sand bottom. This caught me off guard being that they both seemed to very happy fish for the first 24 hours, swimming and eating just fine. It seemed that this behavior just started out of nowhere and within 4 hours after this my lemon damselfish stiffened and stopped breathing. My Blue Damsel is acting the same way and sadly I don't think he will make it through the night.. I did a 25% water change once I noticed the behavior. I just had my water checked yesterday at my LPS and everything looked fine. My current SG is 1.023 and the temp. is 78 Degrees F. I just cant understand what happened and what went wrong. I am completely mind-boggled at what just happened. Can anybody give me some answers?

Well If the tank was setup up for 4 days then you may not have cycled the tank properly.. Also adding the fish without a proper cycling time did not give the bacteria needed to get set up... Have you tested the water? What are your readings? I bet the ammonia levels will be elevated. If you have ammonia then continue to do water changes.. I have been out of the game for a while so hope I helped some.

 

[jay0705]

Don't cycle w fish. The live sand, live rock, and now dead fish should have started the cycle. Test for ammonia, nitrates, nitrites. Once the ammonia drops the others should spike. Then they drop. After this u can slowly add a fish. For such a small tank your looking at maybe 2-3max small fish

 

[bang guy]

Good advice here.

One silver lining in this - you now know that your local fish store does not share your concern for your pets. They knew that putting your fish in an uncycled tank would cause them extreme torture, they just didn't let you know that.

 

[bang guy]

To answer your question of what went wrong - it's ammonia poisoning. Without a cycled tank there is not enough bacteria to consume the ammonia produced from the fish waste. The ammonia basically burns away their gills until they suffocate.

 

[flower]

Hi,

Welcome to the site, and sorry for all the troubles... damsels are wicked little fish, in saltwater tanks what you add will dictate what you can add later. Damsels will kill any fish less timid then themselves, including each other. Like bang Guy said, the tank needs to cycle before adding life, a chunk of raw shrimp will kick start the cycle without killing a fish to do it, and your fish store does not care about the fish. Damsels are known for getting really mean once mature, drawing blood when they bite. A 15g tank is a very tiny saltwater tank, the larger the tank, the easier it is to keep stable.

You have the tank set up...toss a chunk of raw shrimp in it, and test for ammonia, once that spikes to at least 1, remove the raw shrimp, then wait for it to drop to 0 and test for nitrites, once that goes to 0, test for nitrates...if it's over 10, do a little water change and the tank will be ready for ONE fish. Once you add a fish, you have to wait for the good bacteria to catch up before you can add another fish. just so you know...with a 15g, one fish will max out the tank.

While you are waiting for the cycle, now is a great time to set up a quarantine tank, if you are smart and able to...use the 15g for quarantine, and set up a 30g or larger for your display tank. Your first purchase should be a good beginners book on keeping saltwater tanks. Below is a couple of really good books to help you learn what you need to, and help prod you to ask the right questions. This site is a gold mine of information, but if you don't know what to ask...we can't read minds.

• The conscientious aquarist by Robert Fenner
• The dummies guide to keeping a saltwater aquarium

 

[hannahms95]

Well If the tank was setup up for 4 days then you may not have cycled the tank properly.. Also adding the fish without a proper cycling time did not give the bacteria needed to get set up... Have you tested the water? What are your readings? I bet the ammonia levels will be elevated. If you have ammonia then continue to do water changes.. I have been out of the game for a while so hope I helped some.

I did test the water before I did the water change, and everything seemed fine except for the first time I noticed the nitrates where a little elevated. I don't currently have an ammonia test but I did have my LPS test my water the day before and it was fine. I will be bringing in another sample today and see what they can tell me. I'm wondering if I should bring them back their fish also. Looks like I'll be making a phone call soon.

 

[lmforbis]

The ammonia goes up because of the waste from fish or left over food rotting. If there was nothing in the tank there is no source of ammonia and the test will read 0 but the tank is not cycled. Your fish store should know this. That is why the cycle is started with an ammonia source like a shrimp or ghost feeding. That gives the beneficial bacteria food so they multiply to levels that can handle fish waste. This takes a few weeks to happen.

 

[hannahms95]

I also have a small Asterina Starfish that hitched a ride in on the live rock I purchased. Yesterday it hid in the sand all day but now this morning its been making its way slowly around my tank wall. will it die too?

 

[hannahms95]

I just talked to my LFS who sold me the fish and they asked me to bring in the fish and a water sample. I'm shocked at how he knew this would happen! Even more shocked that he acted like this was completely normal!
I'm just a little confused as to why these people told me that I needed this fish to start the cycling and then another fish place told me that I didn't need to cycle anything if there is live rock and live sand. but nobody told me I could save the heartbreak and the bad experience for myself and my family if I just added some raw shrimp to get the cycling started.

 

[jay0705]

Depends how high your stuff gets. They can tolerate more than most stars

 

[jay0705]

Fully cured live rock helps a ton. But die off will create a cycle. Especially in such a small tank

 

[clatong]

Sounds like your fish store is like many others... they care more about getting your money than they do about the fish they sold you. As you said, they knew this would happen, but wanted your money anyways.

Let this be a lesson that if you intend to buy more stuff at this store (sometimes we don't have other choices!), then make sure you know what you're getting and whether or not it's okay to get before you go to the store. Don't trust them to tell you what's okay and what isn't.

 

[flower]

I just talked to my LFS who sold me the fish and they asked me to bring in the fish and a water sample. I'm shocked at how he knew this would happen! Even more shocked that he acted like this was completely normal!
I'm just a little confused as to why these people told me that I needed this fish to start the cycling and then another fish place told me that I didn't need to cycle anything if there is live rock and live sand. but nobody told me I could save the heartbreak and the bad experience for myself and my family if I just added some raw shrimp to get the cycling started.

Hi,

The guy knew because he wanted you to cycle your tank with a live fish, the only way to keep it alive is to do a water change the moment you see a spike of ammonia...called a soft cycle. Nowadays we know you don't need a live fish to suffer just to cycle a new tank, a chunk of raw shrimp will accomplish the same thing. The difference is that a chunk of shrimp is $1.00 at the grocery store, and the fish store gets about $8:00 to $10.00 per fish they sold you.

Hitchhikers such as little stars and snails, usually are okay...if they die, don't worry there is lots of life still on the live rock, that's why it's called LIVE.

Fish stores are in business, they want to sell you stuff. This is why I said to get a book first, that way you go into the store knowing what you want or need, as opposed to trusting the fellow trying to get your money.

 

[2014FishKiller]

One day cycle for newest tank, I have watched some videos for it, I would say bad products after all.

 

[beth]

I just talked to my LFS who sold me the fish and they asked me to bring in the fish and a water sample. I'm shocked at how he knew this would happen! Even more shocked that he acted like this was completely normal!
I'm just a little confused as to why these people told me that I needed this fish to start the cycling and then another fish place told me that I didn't need to cycle anything if there is live rock and live sand. but nobody told me I could save the heartbreak and the bad experience for myself and my family if I just added some raw shrimp to get the cycling started.

Many fish shops do not share the attachment to their livestock that we hobbyists have. Many fish shop employees also are not very well informed so take what they say with a grain of salt. Most staff in the local stores believe that the appropriate way to cycle a tank is using an expendable fish. As hobbyists, we've moved away from that mentality. Unfortunately, most folks just coming in to the hobby get their initial advise from the local shop so they end up with a lot of mis-information getting started.

Also, the shrimp method to cycle a new tank is inappropriate really. Best bet is just buy at least one piece of LR, then feed your tank. That will give you a cycle and a nice kickstart on a new tank.

 

[Eloy Cardenas]

Many fish shops do not share the attachment to their livestock that we hobbyists have. Many fish shop employees also are not very well informed so take what they say with a grain of salt. Most staff in the local stores believe that the appropriate way to cycle a tank is using an expendable fish. As hobbyists, we've moved away from that mentality. Unfortunately, most folks just coming in to the hobby get their initial advise from the local shop so they end up with a lot of mis-information getting started.

Also, the shrimp method to cycle a new tank is inappropriate really. Best bet is just buy at least one piece of LR, then feed your tank. That will give you a cycle and a nice kickstart on a new tank.

Why is the shrimp method inappropriate? Have used it in the past with success.

 

[npbstlr43]

Good advice here.

One silver lining in this - you now know that your local fish store does not share your concern for your pets. They knew that putting your fish in an uncycled tank would cause them extreme torture, they just didn't let you know that.

Yes, those poor fish suffered for no reason...you can get the same result by throwing food in an empty tank to start the cycle.

 

[silverado61]

Feeling overwhelmed? Don't know what to do? Getting frustrated? Feel like saying, "Screw it. This hobby isn't for me."?

I don't blame you. Your knew at this, something has gone terribly wrong, You ask us for help and all the sudden you have seven people, all with good intentions, throwing advice at you from every angle. Trust me, I've been there. We've all been there at one time or another.

Don't give up. You need to focus on certain peoples advice. Go with the pros that have been in this hobby longer than you've been alive, collectively. Flower, bang guy and Beth.

If you focus on what these three have to say and the advice they give, you will get through this and gain some knowledge and insite.

No offense to everyone else but he's probably confused as H. E. double tooth picks right now.

 

[beaslbob]

Sound all to normal. the tank just wasn't ready for the fish.

I recommend you add macro algaes and let them condition the tank for a week. then add a single male molly (acclimate slowly from freshwater to salt) and not add food for a week.

At that point you can add a couple of female mollies of one or two marine only fish.

The idea is the macros will consume the ammonia and co2 and return fish food and oxygen. And prevent the cycle spikes that stress out the fish.

my .02