My own newbie thread

silverado61

Well-Known Member
I keep no hermits, and no astrae snails either, if a snail is too stupid to turn themselves upright, I don't know how the species even continues. Instead I get a combo of brittle or serpent stars, and nassarous snails, they will feed on the wasted food that falls into the rocks, they are meat eaters... Nerite, turbo, and Cerith snails will keep the algae in check.
It's not that they're too stupid to turn themselves over. Their bodies aren't evolved for to environment that we, as responsible aquarists, put them in.

That's like using a fish to cycle a tank and saying, "If they're too stupid to get used to the ammonia spike, they deserve to die."

To watch them starve to death or get eaten alive because they can't turn themselves over is, in my opinion, cruel and inhuman.

Snails are beautiful, complex creatures that deserve a chance to live a content, safe life, in a glass container that WE put them in, just like your fish or shrimp or seahorses.

We put them in there to "do a job" and yet when they fall and can't right themselves we just sit back and watch them die? We owe it to them to take a few seconds and turn them back over.

Sorry if I'm ranting but try saying to yourself the next time your seahorse gets stung by a bristle worm or gets their tail caught in a power head, or get their belly full of air, try saying to yourself, "Eh.... If they're too stupid not to stay away from that worm or put they're tail where it doesn't belong or just burp the air out, just let them die."

Just a thought
 

flower

Well-Known Member
It's not that they're too stupid to turn themselves over. Their bodies aren't evolved for to environment that we, as responsible aquarists, put them in.

That's like using a fish to cycle a tank and saying, "If they're too stupid to get used to the ammonia spike, they deserve to die."

To watch them starve to death or get eaten alive because they can't turn themselves over is, in my opinion, cruel and inhuman.

Snails are beautiful, complex creatures that deserve a chance to live a content, safe life, in a glass container that WE put them in, just like your fish or shrimp or seahorses.

We put them in there to "do a job" and yet when they fall and can't right themselves we just sit back and watch them die? We owe it to them to take a few seconds and turn them back over.

Sorry if I'm ranting but try saying to yourself the next time your seahorse gets stung by a bristle worm or gets their tail caught in a power head, or get their belly full of air, try saying to yourself, "Eh.... If they're too stupid not to stay away from that worm or put they're tail where it doesn't belong or just burp the air out, just let them die."

Just a thought
UMMM....Turning over if you fall down...exactly how is that simply a problem in an aquarium? Exactly how in the ocean do they manage to turn themselves upright, or manage to never get flipped over? I don't sit back and watch anything die. I don't buy Astrea snails, nor flame scallops. Some critters just don't belong in our fish tanks. Astrea snails must reproduce in super abundance if they have not evolved enough to survive if they flip over, which IMO is a myth because it makes no sense to me, if they are really too stupid to upright themselves, how can the species survive? One thing I can say...I am not going to put a snail in my tank, that I have to watch to make sure they don't flip over....Your rant has no bases.
 

silverado61

Well-Known Member
UMMM....Turning over if you fall down...exactly how is that simply a problem in an aquarium? Exactly how in the ocean do they manage to turn themselves upright, or manage to never get flipped over? I don't sit back and watch anything die. I don't buy Astrea snails, nor flame scallops. Some critters just don't belong in our fish tanks. Astrea snails must reproduce in super abundance if they have not evolved enough to survive if they flip over, which IMO is a myth because it makes no sense to me, if they are really too stupid to upright themselves, how can the species survive? One thing I can say...I am not going to put a snail in my tank, that I have to watch to make sure they don't flip over....Your rant has no bases.
Astrea's aren't built for crawling on glass or the sides of rocks or even digging through sand. They're built for flat areas of the sea. Which is how they manage to not get turned over. Research of the species will tell you that, if in fact, you or anybody for that matter, have done his/her research on the animal. Evolution is not a myth. It's a proven scientific fact, if evolution is what your referring to.

As far as "belonging" in our fish tanks, No sea creature "belongs" in our fish tank. Fish tanks weren't created before the oceans. Ocean inhabitants don't evolve (yes, there's that word again) to exist in fish tanks. We build a closed environment that suits their needs. Not the other way around.

Chickens, turkeys, peacocks etc, have wings and feathers. Yet they can't fly. How can they survive as a species?

When a whale or dolphin gets beached, do we as humans say, "If they're stupid enough to get beached, or too stupid to turn themselves around and go back in the water, just let them die"? No. We do everything in our power and at great expense to make sure they thrive and survive.

When a fish in our tank carpet dives, and we see it happen, do we just watch it die because it's too stupid to find it's way back in the tank?

When we buy a fish and it turns on our prized coral, do we just say "Stupid coral"?

When stupid people like us run an oil tanker aground and cause an oil spill that covers thousands of creatures in crude oil, pollutes the waters and destroys the beaches do we say, "If they're too stupid to stay away from the oil then they deserve to die"? Again, no. We spend millions of dollars to clean up our mess and to gives these animals every chance at survival.

We take these animals out of their natural habitat in put them in a closed system. A caged animal so to speak. We owe it to them, no matter what the creature, to give them every chance to survive. Even if it means flipping them back over.

We spend hundreds, even thousands of dollars on equipment to make a home for a $20/30 fish yet we can't take the time to turn a $2 snail over?

Your reply has no basis.

Just another thought.
 

pegasus

Well-Known Member
I have to agree with silverado... they ARE worth the time it takes to flip them over. I have Turbo Astreas in both tanks and refugium, and they are... BY FAR... the best algae eaters of my entire CUC. While it is uncommon for them to get flipped over, it does happen occasionally. If you've ever tried to remove one from a rock, it makes you wonder how they ever get flipped... they stick like glue. It only happens when they get startled and turn loose of the surface they're attached to, and due to the shape of their shells, they land on their sides. If they land near a rock or glass, they can upright themselves. If it lands on the sand, there's little chance it'll be able to due to the heavy weight of the shell. The only time I've ever seen one fall is when I spooked it, and then it becomes my responsibility to correct the situation I caused. Undisturbed, it's highly unlikely they will ever fall off of anything. Just my 2c...

Now, in the words of Rodney King... can't we all get along???
 

iidylii

Active Member
No worries I will not be getting any...I have more then enough of a cuc...and I believe all flower was saying is she prefers not to get them for the reason that they, at times get turned over so she would just rather not have them...she wasn't saying "oh look my snail is dying, oh well"

Anyways thanks for the info everyone and I look forward to tues when all my stuff comes...I did get some algae wafers to feed the cuc as I have no fish for them to clean up after yet...but a couple will be arriving on tues as well :D
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Astrea's aren't built for crawling on glass or the sides of rocks or even digging through sand. They're built for flat areas of the sea. Which is how they manage to not get turned over. Research of the species will tell you that, if in fact, you or anybody for that matter, have done his/her research on the animal. Evolution is not a myth. It's a proven scientific fact, if evolution is what your referring to.

As far as "belonging" in our fish tanks, No sea creature "belongs" in our fish tank. Fish tanks weren't created before the oceans. Ocean inhabitants don't evolve (yes, there's that word again) to exist in fish tanks. We build a closed environment that suits their needs. Not the other way around.

Chickens, turkeys, peacocks etc, have wings and feathers. Yet they can't fly. How can they survive as a species?

When a whale or dolphin gets beached, do we as humans say, "If they're stupid enough to get beached, or too stupid to turn themselves around and go back in the water, just let them die"? No. We do everything in our power and at great expense to make sure they thrive and survive.

When a fish in our tank carpet dives, and we see it happen, do we just watch it die because it's too stupid to find it's way back in the tank?

When we buy a fish and it turns on our prized coral, do we just say "Stupid coral"?

When stupid people like us run an oil tanker aground and cause an oil spill that covers thousands of creatures in crude oil, pollutes the waters and destroys the beaches do we say, "If they're too stupid to stay away from the oil then they deserve to die"? Again, no. We spend millions of dollars to clean up our mess and to gives these animals every chance at survival.

We take these animals out of their natural habitat in put them in a closed system. A caged animal so to speak. We owe it to them, no matter what the creature, to give them every chance to survive. Even if it means flipping them back over.

We spend hundreds, even thousands of dollars on equipment to make a home for a $20/30 fish yet we can't take the time to turn a $2 snail over?

Your reply has no basis.

Just another thought.
I really don't get why you want to bite my head off... I just don't think certain critters should be in a fish tank because we can't keep them alive. Flame scallops came to mind, and a snail not designed for crawling on glass and land up turned over and dying shouldn't either. It's just an opinion. Personally NO...I don't want to spend my day micromanaging the snails, and flipping them over when they fall down. There are lots of other choices for snails that do just as good a job, so I think it's crazy to have to do that. We spend thousands of dollars for ATO systems, and other equipment, so we don't have to manually spend all day taking care of the tank. So what's your underwear in a bunch about? You don't OWE the snails to go and watch them every moment, and flip the dang things over if they fall down... So Original poster...do yourself a favor, and get a different species of snail, and save yourself the headache.

Silverado, I will change my opinion on stupid snail... Rather...stupid human who gets a snail that you have to micromanage it's life so much that you have to flip them over if they fall down. When you could get three different types of snails, each one that do just as good a job...and still have free time to actually have a life.

Oh and one last rant... You should put your hands in the tank as little as possible... that includes whatever stick you use to harass and stress the snail with, to flip it over all day long.
 

iidylii

Active Member
Thanks again u guys points were taken :~}

Like I said I will be getting different ones because it's just simpler :~}...

Woohoo fish and critters coming tomorrow
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Thanks again u guys points were taken :~}

Like I said I will be getting different ones because it's just simpler :~}...

Woohoo fish and critters coming tomorrow
Gotta post some pictures! I love this stage of the hobby!
 

iidylii

Active Member
So if I bought my fish from this site would u guys still recommend qt? Just thought I read that they already qt them?

Flower...I will definitely get some pics going in a bit here...thanks for asking
;)
 
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lmforbis

Well-Known Member
Always quarantine no matter where they come from. Shipping is very stressful for the fish. That makes them susceptible to disease.
 

jay0705

Well-Known Member
Qt everything. No matter where u get them. Some places are better than others but better to be safe then sorry
 

flower

Well-Known Member
I have to agree with silverado... they ARE worth the time it takes to flip them over. I have Turbo Astreas in both tanks and refugium, and they are... BY FAR... the best algae eaters of my entire CUC. While it is uncommon for them to get flipped over, it does happen occasionally. If you've ever tried to remove one from a rock, it makes you wonder how they ever get flipped... they stick like glue. It only happens when they get startled and turn loose of the surface they're attached to, and due to the shape of their shells, they land on their sides. If they land near a rock or glass, they can upright themselves. If it lands on the sand, there's little chance it'll be able to due to the heavy weight of the shell. The only time I've ever seen one fall is when I spooked it, and then it becomes my responsibility to correct the situation I caused. Undisturbed, it's highly unlikely they will ever fall off of anything. Just my 2c...

Now, in the words of Rodney King... can't we all get along???
I have never purchased an Astrea snail, so I have no experience with them. Their shells are the nicer looking. All I know about them is that they have to be uprighted if they fall over...If I had been told they seldom flip over, it would have maybe made a difference in my opinion on keeping them. Other snails fall over all the time, more so when I clean the tank rocks by blasting them...snails play dead, after they are sure it's safe, they upright themselves and just move on. Being told that I would have to flip them upright just to keep them alive, was enough for me to stay clear of them.

I always have a varied group of snails (Margarita, black nassarius, cerith, and nerite), I have a cold water tank, so the margaritas do well...they like colder water...and no algae problems whatsoever, they do a good job. The best algae eaters of all time are by far...urchins.
 

iidylii

Active Member
Lol got it thanks

Flower...I have 4 different types of urchins coming so I'm going to have to supplement feed :~}
 
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pegasus

Well-Known Member
Lol got it thanks

Flower...I have 4 different types of urchins coming so I'm going to have to supplement feed :~}
You'll definitely need to supplement, err, completely supply their diet of algae since it's a new system. It'll be awhile before there's enough algae to support one urchin, much less four. Just overfeed the tank, and don't do regular water changes. That'll give them plenty of natural food to eat! LOL!!!

I hope you realize that I'm kidding... ;)
 

iidylii

Active Member
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You'll definitely need to supplement, err, completely supply their diet of algae since it's a new system. It'll be awhile before there's enough algae to support one urchin, much less four. Just overfeed the tank, and don't do regular water changes. That'll give them plenty of natural food to eat! LOL!!!

I hope you realize that I'm kidding... ;)
Thanks Pegasus...I just love how many different types of urchins there are so I had to get a variety and I'm prepared to work for them to pull through lol

Couple pics...
 
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