Mini Snowstorm in Recently cycled tank

[Luvthekeys]

Yesterday afternoon I noticed what appeared to be a snowstorm of tiny white particles. I first thought it was a bacterial bloom which happens frequently in newly cycled tanks. However instead of the water appearing cloudy it looked as if the white particles were following the flow of the pumps and powerheads. I did some reading and thought it might be calcium participating out of the water column. I tried to take a photo but the white spots were too small to show up on the photo only pods could be seen. The tank is a 28 gallon Nano with 89 watts of LED lighting.

This morning I went through all my tests which i list following

Ammonia was 0
Nitrites were 0
Nitrates was 20 ppm or close to that number eyes not what they used to be
PH was 8.0
Salinity was 1.026
Phosphate was less then .025
Calcium 380
Carbonate Hardness was 9KH
Magnesium was 870 (this seems very low. I can not believe it could go that low in a new tank but I am new to saltwater. I was using a Seifert test kit and found it convoluted to use. I admit to skipping Chemistry in high school.)

I am too new to start chasing reading by adding one chemical after another. I should say all the invertebrates including several peppermint shrimp on the rather large cleaning crew seem to be doing well, lots of filter feeders appearing on live rock and many pods in the water . So my questions are:

Does anyone agree that it appears to be Calcium participating out of the water column? (based on the low Magnesium level)

I should add I had an airstone in the one of the back compartments to add oxygen before this happened since I thought it would help add oxygen to the water. I have turned it off to see it that makes a difference.

Could it actually be a Bacterial bloom?
Am I missing something else it might be?
Most important am I overreacting?

Since I do not want to start adding stuff and possibly making the problem worse I plan to do a ten to twenty percent water change daily until I remove the total amount of water in the tank, Is this a valid option to get the magnesium up to proper levels. I will test the new water to see what Magnesium level I get before I put it in the tank.

I hope some of you can shed light on what I might be experiencing.

 

[flower]

Hi,

There is absolutely nothing wrong with your tank. What you are seeing is "marine snow". It's the natural die off on rocks (not like when rock cures), it happens all the time in the ocean, but only in very new tanks that I know about. The first two years of my tank, I had it all the time. The corals love it. There is a bottled version, but it's a waste of money.

A bacterial bloom is so cloudy it looks like the water in the tank is 2% milk.

Your test results:
You can raise your calcium a little, it has nothing to do with the marine snow...but your test is a little tiny bit low, and I know you will want healthy coralline (purple on your rocks). Buy liquid calcium, follow the instructions. Calcium is consumed by critters, corals and coralline algae, so many people replace it with a supplement or drip Kalk.

 

[bang guy]

The low Magnesium level is consistent with a precipitation event. The reaction of the event can actually pull Magnesium out of the water column. However; it could also be that the Magnesium was low to begin with and that triggered the event.

It's possible the airstone was the final trigger as it could have raised the PH slightly. But I would not say if was the cause. Either something was very high (Ca, ALK, PH, Temp) or Magnesium was very low prior to the event.

Did you add anything to the tank that might have triggered this?

Do you have Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium, PH, and temperature reading from before the event?

My suggestion would be more on the order of an 80 - 100% water change. 20% isn't going to be very helpful.

 

[Luvthekeys]

Bang Guy

Here are my figures for two days before the event. I did not have a Magnesium test kit until then. I just hope I am using it correctly. However from what I read have that low a magnesium number would cause a participation event. No I have added nothing to the tank but the cleaning crew and some shaving brush macroalgae on Tuesday.

My temperature for the tank stays between 80 and 81.2. House stays constant 74 and I do not use a heater but have one handy that i use to heat water for WC.

PH 8.0
Calcium 360
Alkalinity 9KH
Magnesium ?

I am using Instant Ocean if that makes any difference.

As you know I am new to this and not sure how I would accomplish that large of a water change. I am using five gallon buckets to mix my water and only have two to use for mixing. I have a cleaning crew in there and worry about shocking them with so large a water change. I figure taking into account rocks and sand there is twenty or twenty one gallons in the tank.

Sorry to keep asking questions but one leads to another. I was so happy that things were going as well as they have been.

As always thanks to all who have helped or made suggestions.

 

[pegasus]

You'll definitely want to get your magnesium level up before trying to raise calcium. Without magnesium at the proper level, any additional calcium will precipitate out of the solution. I'm surprised alkalinity is remaining that high, but then again, as alkalinity levels rise, calcium levels fall. I'd test the freshly mixed saltwater to see what you levels are, and go from there. If calcium and alkalinity check out okay, a large water change (80-100% as BG suggested) should solve your problem. If your fresh saltwater levels don't fall within specs, you may have a bad batch of salt. Depending on the size of the salt container (especially 5 gallon buckets), it may need to be stirred to blend the elements. Large containers have been known to have "settling" of certain elements, and you end up with an imbalance of elements in every mix.

 

[Luvthekeys]

I just mixed two five gallon containers and tested them both.

They were nearly identical

PH 8.2
Salinity 1.025
Calcium 340 to 360
Magnesium 960 (I wish I was more sure of myself doing this test. I do follow the directions but am I interpreting them right)

As you can see calcium and magnesium are both low. I am using a 200 gallon size of
Instant Ocean Sea Salt that I purchased from Amazon. So the readings I have been getting are consistent with what I got today on the tank, It appears my Calcium and Magnesium have been low from the start.

I have a Calcium additive but i asume that would not work due to the low Magnesium. I have nothing to raise Magnesium. It also appears that calcium precipitation event might not have been one. The tank is much clearer but still has some white dots. I think Flower may have been right about the marine snow.

So now I am at square one. If I do a water change I am spinning my wheels. I could still do it to lower my nitrates but they are not terrible between 10 and 20 this being a recently cycled tank.

I am open to suggestions.

 

[pegasus]

Magnesium is very low. 1250-1350 is a good range, but it doesn't hurt anything to run it even a little higher. Calcium levels look good, but may fall rapidly due to the low magnesium. There are magnesium supplements, such as Kent Marine Tech-M (I use this) and other mix-your-own powders such as that from BRS. Most people focus on Alk, Cal, and Mag levels once they move into hard, calcareous corals... but it's equally as important to grow coralline algae on you rocks. The sooner you can get these levels under control, the better. You may want to switch salts, or supplement magnesium until your current stock is used up. Reef Crystals has elevated levels of Magnesium, as well as other elements. It's what I use...

 

[bang guy]

Why would you be spinning your wheels with a water change?

 

[Luvthekeys]

Thank you pegasus. I had already ordered Kent Marine Tech-M earlier today. I will have it on Monday. I hope that will be soon enough. Any hints on dosing and do I dose calcium in conjunction with the magnesium. I have a the Kent Calcium supplement but do not want to use it since Magnesium is low.

I noticed that I have small bubbles (not micro bubbles) coming out from under my live rock. Is this maybe part of the die off that Flower mentioned or is just the natural actions of the bacteria under those rocks. Snow storm continues but the water is clear otherwise if that makes sense.

Also I introduced a clean up crew to the tank on Tuesday. Most of them are doing fine as far as I can see. I lost some turbo snails since if they fall over they can not right themselves at least the kind I have. The other snails Nassarius Snails disappeared the first day. I suspect they are in my sand bed somewhere. The peppermint shrimp disappeared too but lately they have started to make brief appearances. Crabs are working on my hair algae and other demetrius. I have no ammonia or nitrites but my nitrates have hovered in the 10 to 20 range. I have done two 15 percent water changes but they stay in that range. I have read that invertebrates do not tolerate nitrates well should I do a larger water change or will that shock them considering they have only been in the tank for five days? I realize I should be proactive but I do not want to be reactive.

Thanks again

 

[Luvthekeys]

Bang Guy
I meant that if the levels of my new saltwater matches the levels of the water in the tank I would not be raising the calcium or the magnesium. Both tested identical so I suspect the Instant Ocean Mix I have is deficient in Calcium and Magnesium. I can do a forty percent water change with the water I have.

 

[bang guy]

Before you do your water change, can you give me the exact details of how you mix your new saltwater?

Your nitrates are not at a dangerous level at this time.

 

[Luvthekeys]

I put a number of gallons of distilled water into a five gallon bucket the contains a pump. I slowly distribute a half cup of salt per gallon into the bucket. I let the pump distribute the water continuously. I check to make sure any salt that might stick to the bottom of the pail is stirred up and dissolved. After a few hours I check the salinity and if needed add a little more salt until I match the salinity to the water in the tank. I use a refractometer and sometimes double check with a hydrometer. I also match the temperature. I usually let the powerhead run for twelve or more hours.

As far as the water change if my nitrates do not rise I would like to hold out until Monday when I am receiving the Magnesium additive. It appears that my readings from the beginning were low. I do not see any unusual covering of calcium on my powerheads or pumps.

Just as an aside I have read in many places Instant Ocean is low on Magnesium which may be the root of my low readings.

One more question any idea why I am seeing bubbles coming from under my live rock? does it have anything to do with the nitrification process?

I do appreciate all you and the others do to help me. I want to do things right since making a mistake costs in terms of money and tank residents.

 

[bang guy]

That sounds right so it's not your mixing method. I asked because I've caught a lot of people doing it wrong resulting in poor saltwater.

Epsom salt can raise Mg a little but I wouldn't rely on it to raise you Mg as much as you need. I'd suggest a different salt or Magnesium chloride.

There's nothing wrong with your Nitrate level at this point.

The bubbles under the rock are probably decomposition but could be denitrification.

It would be a good idea to take your powerheads and pumps apart at your earliest convenience. The hot spindles are typically the first place Calcium carbonate precipitates and it can make your pumps less efficient.

 

[Luvthekeys]

Bang Guy

Thanks again. I tested again this morning and saw no change in calcium or Magnesium levels. Not that much of a problem since I only have one mushroom coral that came as a hitchhiker and it seems to be doing okay. My nitrate level seems to have gone down to 10. I attribute that to very little feeding since the clean up crew has plenty of algae to keep it buzy. I will keep the new saltwater until monday when I expect the Kent Magnesium supplement, I do have epsom salts but will try the Kent product that Pegasus recommended. Do I need to keep the new saltwater agitated? Also once new saltwater is mixed is there a limit in how long you can keep it before using it for a water change?

 

[pegasus]

I would add magnesium at double the recommended amount on the bottle to get your mag up fairly quickly. I've dosed 3 times what the directions specify, and had no adverse reaction. I'd start with the tank first, adding it to an area of high flow, and add it to the fresh mixed saltwater to get it up as well. Once you get your magnesium level within the desired range (1250-1350 ppm), then you can raise your calcium to the proper level. Natural sea water has a calcium content of 410 ppm, but I'd run it a little higher as that number will fall as it's being consumed. Right now, snails and coralline algae are going to be using the bulk of your calcium, so a level of 425(ish) ppm should be sufficient. Sorry to say, but until you change your salt, you'll need to dose the new batches of water with Mag to get the correct level.

 

[flower]

Hi,
You know...I really thought this was just marine snow. Years ago when it happened to me, that's what I was told. It happened off and on throughout the first 2 years and then never happened again. My point is this...it never bothered a thing, and afterwards the corals were super happy. Maybe what is going on for you isn't the same thing. Bang Guy knows his stuff, and I trust his opinion 100%

I have a magnesium test kit, I have tested a few times, and it was never ever anything but right on the money for what the magnesium was supposed to be. I attribute that to the fact that the saltwater mix, Instant Ocean reef, when I had corals, and regular Instant Ocean, now that I don't. Did you look on the mix container to see what the magnesium levels in it are? I bet they match.

The only time I ever concerned myself with the magnesium levels was when I was told to up it to get rid of hair algae. I don't think you have to drive yourself nuts to get perfect numbers to keep a SW tank.

 

[Luvthekeys]

Flower as I have said it appears my numbers have always been low as far as calcium and magnesium now that I look back. Yes the numbers in the newly mixed batch of saltwater do match the water in the tank. That is why I think you may be right and this is not a participation event. However I still need to get those numbers up if I am going to have corals and coralline algae in my tank. In my reading on the internet it appears that Instant Ocean regular salt is low on Magnesium supposedly for it to mix easier. I bought enough for two hundred gallons. Having a Nano tank it will last for awhile. I decided to follow Pegasus's advice and go for the Kent supplement. I have read articles where people use epsom salts to raise Magnesium but I would worry about the dosing.

Speaking of Pegasus thanks for the advice. I will follow it and hopefully find a happy medium.

What would I do without the help I have received here.

Peace, LTK

 

[flower]

Flower as I have said it appears my numbers have always been low as far as calcium and magnesium now that I look back. Yes the numbers in the newly mixed batch of saltwater do match the water in the tank. That is why I think you may be right and this is not a participation event. However I still need to get those numbers up if I am going to have corals and coralline algae in my tank. In my reading on the internet it appears that Instant Ocean regular salt is low on Magnesium supposedly for it to mix easier. I bought enough for two hundred gallons. Having a Nano tank it will last for awhile. I decided to follow Pegasus's advice and go for the Kent supplement. I have read articles where people use epsom salts to raise Magnesium but I would worry about the dosing.

Speaking of Pegasus thanks for the advice. I will follow it and hopefully find a happy medium.

What would I do without the help I have received here.

Peace, LTK

Hi,
I'm with you, I wouldn't want to figure out how to dose something not meant for a fish tank either. I use Kent supplements all the time. For Coralline algae, since you have low numbers, you can get some stuff called Purple up. I always just dosed calcium, but Purple up has other stuff in it to help Coralline algae grow, it might even have what you need to bring up the magnesium... I don't have a bottle handy to read the back and see, but it's something you can look into.

 

[Luvthekeys]

Flower

Funny thing despite my low calcium and magnesium readings I noticed just a few minutes ago that coralline algae has started to spread from my live rock to my dry rock. You can just start to see tiny areas of pink on the formerly white rock. It had been turning light brown the last week but I was shocked to see pink on some of them. The tank has only been up for a little over three weeks. I was worried about losing the coralline on the live rock due to my present condition instead it is spreading. I guess it is imperative that i get my magnesium levels up so I can boost my calcium. I am going to research the supplement Kent Purple Tech which I assume it similar to Purple up.