Low dKH

[Luvthekeys]

Okay I can come close to doing that. However I am about to head out for a treatment. I will try to do that this afternoon or early tonight. there may be one day gaps when I did not test but I think you will get the idea. I wish I could make a chart per se but up till now I have just entered it day by day. when I try to do a chart by using tabs it never stays even. Again thanks all for taking the time to help with my problem.

Bang Guy is there a problem with the water i am using? It seemed the best choice of bottled waters at the supermarket. For a small tank I could not see the expense of adding a RO system.

 

[bang guy]

You can also drink the RO water instead of bottled water and it makes the best coffee.

I've tested a few of the local stores here and their version of purified water does not match what I think it should be.

But to be honest, I don't think your source water has any impact on your problem.

OTOH, have you ever tested your new saltwater just before you do a water change?

 

[beaslbob]

I suggest you research the dr randy homles-Farley diy 2 part system.

That system uses common baking soda for the alk part.

I would also measure pH just before lights out and in the process alk also.

my .02

 

[pegasus]

A couple more questions I haven't asked... what type of filtration are you using? Do you have a skimmer? Elevated levels of DOC's form hydrogen ions, which will drive alkalinity levels down. Just a thought...

 

[Luvthekeys]

Pegasus, I have 35 lbs of live rock and since it is a 28 gal. nano tank I have filter in the sump that is part of the main tank with floss, purigen and chemipure elite. No skimmer since there is only about twenty gallons of water taking into account the live rock and sand in the tank so I do a fifteen percent water change weekly. Okay DOC stands for? I am sure it will be obvious when you tell me.

Bang Guy, I have taken photos of my recent logs. Hopefully you can read my chicken scratch. they are labeled as to what they are charts for. Hope it helps.

 

[bang guy]

Vexing to be sure. That is outstanding that you are keeping a log. I cannot express how much that helps narrow down the list of problems.

I can see that precipitation is not a problem.

Let me think on this a while. I think I have enough clues, I just need to put it all together.

 

[bang guy]

For what it's worth, there's no real reason to test Nitrite levels.

And DOC is Dissolved Organic Compounds. They produce acid as they decompose. Hydrochloric acid...

 

[Luvthekeys]

Bang Guy, as far as Nitrite levels I thought so but figured it would not hurt. I will wait patiently as I said everything alive seems alright. Of course I lost that clown fish that was not eating after three weeks. Could not locate him and did not want to destroy the tank looking for his body.. I finally found what was left of him. His skeleton. I had no spike in nitrates so I guess the bacteria in the tank was good enough to handle to bioload of one dead clown fish. Also I have three peppermint shrimp and I thought I read they were susceptible to changes in water parameters. They seem to be doing fine. just some more info.

 

[pegasus]

I can't explain why there wasn't a spike in Nitrate after the clownfish death. Typically there's a spike in Ammonia, then Nitrite, and finally Nitrate. Perhaps the cleanup crew cleaned up the carnage before it started to rot? That seems to be the only logical explanation. As for low dKH, I've noticed a few threads on various forums that point to the use of Purigen and Chemipure Elite as culprits in low Alkalinity... precipitation of Alkalinity on the media surface, or something to that effect. I'd try running the tank a few days without filtering the water through that media, and see if you levels stay more consistent. If they do, you'll know what was causing it. If you have a closed top on the tank, open it, and try to provide surface agitation to the water so there's adequate gas exchange. It may be a single thing causing this situation, or it may be a combination of things. It's best to cover all avenues just to be safe. The sooner you can get your parameters stabilized, the better off the tank will be. Stability is a much better option than trying to hit specific numbers... but having both is ideal. One step at a time...

 

[pegasus]

For what it's worth, there's no real reason to test Nitrite levels.

And DOC is Dissolved Organic Compounds. They produce acid as they decompose. Hydrochloric acid...

+1. If there is low-to-no ammonia, there should be low-to-no nitrite. Can't have one without the other.

Acid is the polar opposite of alkaline, so it could be neutralizing the basic. Hmm... yet another theory.

 

[Luvthekeys]

One more variable I forgot. I recently added a small algae scrubber in one of the compartments on the back of my Nano tank. I can not see this affecting dKH since its basically a plastic box with some type of white substance that algae forms on, a red LED light and an inlet and outlet for air and water to pass through. I use a small air pump to add the air. I keep it below the surface so there is constant bubbling. You also can keep the top half above water so there are no bubbles. I hope I explained that right. It is sold by Santa Monica Filtration and the model is a Drop .2. I was intrigued by the concept and wanted to try it out. However for some reason algae is taking its sweet ass time in getting started. I think it is having too much fun growing in my tank.

As to the DOC I have disturbed the sand base when moving some rocks. I admit to doing this several times over the last week in an attempt to get the aquascape just right. So that might have something to do with it. Yet I would think if it created a lot of DOC it would affect the inhabitants of the tank and they seem fine.

Pegasus, I am pretty sure it was the cleanup crew. I do not feed them most of the time so the peppermint shrimp and brittle starfish most likely thought it was Thanksgiving. I kept waiting for a spike but it never came. Ticked me off about the clownfish. He never ate and I tried a multitude of foods in an effort to entice him to eat. Yes I also bought Entice to put on the food. I also tried Garlic, nothing worked. He was active right up until on the third week when He disappeared into the rockwork.

 

[bang guy]

I thought of a question. Does your test kit measure Carbonate hardness or total Alkalinity?

The vast majority of kits test total Alk but there are a few that only test the Carbonate portion so can you look that up just in case.

 

[Luvthekeys]

It is an API Reef Master Test Kit. The test says Carbonate Hardness (KH) Test Kit. it works by adding one drop at a time until the color blue turns yellow. The chart gives you dKH and ppm KH.

Just a question doesn't PH indicate Alkalinity?

 

[bang guy]

I spent a little time reading the instructions for that test but still do not know if it only measures KH or overall Alkalinity.
The reason I want to know is because Borate also contributes to Alkalinity levels. So, if the Alkalinity additive you are using contains a lot or Borate then it will not raise KH much but you could be sending your total Alkalinity off the charts (dangerous). That test probably measures total alkalinity and if so then you can ignore this post but if it only tests KH then you really need to get another test kit that will measure total ALK.

Just a question doesn't PH indicate Alkalinity?

There is a relationship but no, you cannot know the ALK by only testing PH.

 

[Luvthekeys]

I checked the contents of Kent Pro Buffer dKH and it does contain Borate Salts but does not give the percentage. I am going to stop dosing since I do not want to send my Alkalinity off the charts. I will try to find out if what you suggested might be happening. Is there another way to raise dKH. Something more natural.

Can you suggest a better test kit for dKH and Alkalinity.

How about I just use Baking Soda? I found a calculator on the net "Reef Chemistry Calculator"

 

[bang guy]

Baking soda is fine. Add it to your topoff water so the rise is gradual.

 

[pegasus]

Baking soda is fine. Add it to your topoff water so the rise is gradual.

It's my understanding that sodium bicarbonate can be used at a higher rate than sodium carbonate, and IIRC it causes a temporary lowering of pH, unlike carbonate which causes a temporary increase in pH. If the pH of the tank is good, a combination of the two (carbonate & bicarbonate) seems like a better option as it would maintain a steady pH. Then again, I question API test kits, so there's no telling what the pH level of the tank is...

 

[Luvthekeys]

Pegasus,

Well that gave me confidence in my actions based on API test kit. Got any ideas for a more reliable test kit for both PH and dKH?

 

[pegasus]

Pegasus,

Well that gave me confidence in my actions based on API test kit. Got any ideas for a more reliable test kit for both PH and dKH?

I've used Salifert and Red Sea test kits, and I really liked them... but I liked the Salifert kits the best. Red Sea uses color charts, and my eyes don't detect subtle differences in colors quite as well as they used to. I test Cal and Alk more than anything, and I wanted something easier, so (now) I use Hanna Checkers for those. Now that you've got me thinking, I might as well pick up a Hanna Checker for pH. They're only about $30, and I won't have to look at colors for that test, either! Thanks!!!

 

[lmforbis]

I like the salifert tests. Most of mine are seachem which aren't bad but as I use them up I'm switching to salifert.