1 1/2 years later still high nitrates HELP!!!

[alfieferenzo84]

So the tanks has been up for 1 1/2 yrs maybe longer but its been though a lot of moves and changes! For the past 9mo its been in the same place untouch no changes period! Also 9mo ago switched to ro/di water as that is what you all told me to do last time, well that did help get the nitrates from 120-80 all the way down to about 30-50ppm but i am having to change over 40 gallons of water each mo just to keep them under 50ppm and i cant afford this anymore so i need to find a way around this!
The tank is a 75 gallon with 4 power heads 1050gph=14xhr so that is fine, i had about 25lb of lr and 100lb of base so after all this time i could prolly say its all alive, sand there is about 3-5inches of nasty looking sand lol 40lb of it is ls , also a heater kept at 78 or lower, Fish i have 1 puffer about 5inches, 1 percula clown, and 1 yellow clown goby, there are a few crabs about 10 but puffer eats them so i dont stock many and snails dont last 5 min in the tank due to puffer!
So as you can tell the setup is fine, fish might be a little big but he is still small and hasent grown much over the yr, i am lacking a clean up crew but im not sure what to get so it dont become a snack!
Also i did keep the tank under 10 nitrates for a mo i had to change 24 gallons every week to do that just a fyi, so i really think somthing is wrong and i am just over looking it!
I will post pics in a link below please look at them and give me ideas of what is wrong, First thing i do feed everyother day, there is no ammonia or nitiries in the tank and like i said nothing has changed in the past 9mo besides water changes and cleaning the power heads inlets so let me know what you all think, Thanks< AL
Link to pics page 4 if it dont take you there also page 2 is the time line of the tank i guess its been up for 1 yr 11mo now to be dead on and moved 2x and lost and changed tons of things!!!! Check it out
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2571255/4

 

[d.w.]

I've read that canister filters can seriously contribute to nitrate problems. Do you change your filter out atleast once a week?

 

[alfieferenzo84]

havent had that filter on the tank in over 9mo but yes when it was on the tank it did nothing but add to the problem!
Good thinking but i have already took that off the tank as i have came in this fourm offten but never can pinpoint the problem!
also i was thinking about setting up a nano to see how it goes and to see if i have the same problem so i took 1 rock out and only the top part has all that junk on it and the bottom is pure white so maybe its just a issue with the lights but that still dont solve my problem with nitrates!!!

 

[1journeyman]

How much are you feeding?

 

[alfieferenzo84]

i feed the puffer 1 med size shrimp everyother day and the 2 little fish get flake everyother day as they usally eat the puffers mess
I am thinking this maybe have to do with not a good enough clean up crew? BUt the puffer eats everything lol and stuff aint cheap!

 

[1journeyman]

Avoid flake food. Try a mix of frozen foods like mysis shrimp. Doesn't sound like that is the problem, however.
You might post on the Aggressive forum and ask how often they feed their puffers. I've never owned one, but feeding 3-4 medium shrimp a week to a fish sounds like an awful lot of waste being produced. That very well could be the issue.
That rock looks awfully dense. What kind is it?
your sand bed could also be contributing to the problem. How dirty is your sand if you stir a bit?
In order to keep a deep sand bed (4 inches or more) certain steps need to be taken to make sure it is healthy.

 

[geoj]

When you do water changes do you siphon the 3-5 inches of nasty sand? If not then try to get all that sludge out of the sand. And if the sand is fine then it may be to thick if coerce 3-5 is good.
Now the live rock I keep my rock at 1 pound to one gallon for a reef. You’re going to want that but may not like how little space is left. Maybe conceder going with a sump. The live rock is where most of the nitrate is converted to nitrogen.
Now that I seen the tank I think macro algae in a refugium
You wont want to change the rock but I second the rock may not be working because it may be to dense.

 

[alfieferenzo84]

Thanks
i have been reading to avoid flake might have to start using that frozen stuff that the puffer wont touch anymore, ill post about that feeding, but how offten do you think i should feed the other 2 little guys?
The rock is a mix 100lb of fake witch was pretty dense, 10lb of alor witch is very pouris, and about 20lb of fuji
The sand is as you can see dirty on top from all the build up i think your asking if i stir it what happins, well if i just skim it to get the build off from it it will cloud the hole tank up for a few hrs so its very dusty other then that it is not full of food or dirt just very dusty im not to sure what you mean but if you explain a little better i will try or do what you want!!!
My sand bed is just shy of 4inches but overall is really 3inches 75% of it! I have been reading i should either take out some or add a inch or 2 inlighten me on your thoughts on this as i never really given it thought intil just now!!
Thanks
i dont toucht the sand when doing a water change
Like i said above i have about 125+lb of rock witch should all be alive by now right???

 

[rdhanley]

I Would Say Since The Puffer Is Eating Live Food (namely The Cleanup Crew) . That Is Contributing A Lot To The Nitrate Build Up. Do You Have A Refugium On The Tank With Variety Of Plants In It?
The Refugium Might Help Keep The Nitrate Down If There Are Plants In It.
What Type Of Salt Do You Use. Other Possibility Is The Ro Unit Is Filtering Like It Should.

 

[alfieferenzo84]

Originally Posted by rdhanley
I Would Say Since The Puffer Is Eating Live Food (namely The Cleanup Crew) . That Is Contributing A Lot To The Nitrate Build Up. Do You Have A Refugium On The Tank With Variety Of Plants In It?
The Refugium Might Help Keep The Nitrate Down If There Are Plants In It.
What Type Of Salt Do You Use. Other Possibility Is The Ro Unit Is Filtering Like It Should.
No refugium kinda low on money but have thought about that along with a good skimmer but where talking big dollors in both cases
i use io salt once in awhile i will use red sea when on sale seem to give better coraline also
my ro/di unit is working great 0tds!!! I also do check my water change water to be on the safe side and everything looks good!

 

[geoj]

Let me put it this way if there is not enough low oxygen water in the sand then you wont get nitrate converted.
Do you see any black spots deep in the sand this you don’t want. Fine sand 2-3 inches coarse 3-5 inches to prevent that black sand.

 

[alfieferenzo84]

Originally Posted by GeoJ
Let me put it this way if there is not enough low oxygen water in the sand then you wont get nitrate converted.
Do you see any black spots deep in the sand this you don’t want. Fine sand 2-3 inches coarse 3-5 inches to prevent that black sand.
well if i look thou the sides and front i see no black, but there is brown from the layers that i have added over time, i had 1 inches of sugar fine sand to start that got covered in brown dimatom then i added about 2inches of live sand that was in bags i think we got 4 bags witch was live and was added back in feb as some people told me to add more sand to get a dsb, if i stir it up i get white dust like if i just added more sand! Not dirty or black stuff! so with that said what do you think i should do? Remove it all or add more to get more depth or what?
Thanks

 

[tinmanny]

I may have mised it but did you post the peramiters
ph nitrire nitrate calc alc ....
it would be nice to see
Thanks
Manny

 

[geoj]

About sand I think your ok just stir it and siphon when you do water changes. Siphoning will also pull out some of that dust.

 

[jacrmill]

you said you cant buy a good skimmer right now, does that mean you dont have one? ive never owned a fish as messy of an eater as a puffer, but i would imagine with a fish like that putting waste in the water you would need something pulling it out. if you dont have a skimmer that leaves water changes to remove the nitrates. someone else suggested a fuge. i konw you said you are low on money, but you could do one yourself for pretty cheap especially if your tank is RR. but without a skimmer or a fuge, i dont know what to tell you except for good luck.

 

[rdhanley]

Originally Posted by alfieferenzo84
No refugium kinda low on money but have thought about that along with a good skimmer but where talking big dollors in both cases
i use io salt once in awhile i will use red sea when on sale seem to give better coraline also
my ro/di unit is working great 0tds!!! I also do check my water change water to be on the safe side and everything looks good!

I PERSONALY HAVE THE REFUGIUM THAT HANGS ON THE BACK OF THE TANK WITH A CHEAP LIGHTING SYSTEM. IT SEEMS TO WORK PRETTY WELL. IT WAS THE LEAST EXPENSIVE WAY FOR ME TO GO AT THE TIME. I PLANTS ARE GROWING LIKE WEEDS IN IT. GOOD THING ABOUT THIS METHOD WAS , I DIDN'T NEED ANY EXPENSIVE MODIFICATIONS OR A LOT OF EXTRA ITEMS, SUCH AS OVERFLOW SYSTEM, PUMP, REFUGIUM UNDER TANK, MORE POWERFUL LIGHT, ETC.
ITEMS I NEEDED WAS A SIMPLE PUMP (LIKE A 200 GPH), HANG ON REFUGIUM, INEXPENSIVE LIGHT, HOSE, AND PLANTS OF YOUR CHOICE.
DID YOU SAY YOU HAD A PROTEIN SKIMMER?

 

[alfieferenzo84]

had a seaclone skimmer did nothing but put bubbles in the tank for 3wks then work for 1 wk then just does nothing! There total junk so i sold it on ----!
i did clean the sand out there was just a little dust in it other then that no air bubbles or anything so i added another 40lb of ls now its got a nice 5-6 sand bed and i got my nitrates down to 10ppm
today i am going to change more water to get them down to 5 or lower and then prolly get a clean up crew and add a power head or 2
then i am going to watch the tank and see how the water goes by checking it everyday for a week and i am only going to feed 2-4x this week just for the test!
And if my nitrates dont fly up ill prolly leave it like this intil i get money or find a used good skimmer!
Now you all keep talking about a refugium and i have seen many diy plans for one in a hob filter witch i might do somthign like that but i really dont understand how that would help and how to do it and what to put in it so if you all could give me more details great
Thanks

 

[elkomom]

get some live saltwater clams from your grocery store and toss them in.
I have 20-25 in my 55 and run no fuge, filter or sump. all critters are alive and well with no nitrates or any other problems.

 

[jacrmill]

saltwater clams from your grocery store? never heard that trick.....awesome if it works.
for the fuge question, you can just put the algea in there you dont want to grow in your display tank. just throw a chunk of chaeto in there, and thatll bring your trates down. look at the DIY section on this board, you will quickly learn everything you need to know about a DIY sump. Thats what i did, took me about half an hour and 25 bucks to build the sump. then i had to drop some money on the overflow since my tank is not drilled, but there are cheaper ways to do that too.

 

[alfieferenzo84]

so if i throw a hand full of this cheato into a hob filter x2 of them with a light how much nitrates about will they knock off? Is it just a tiny change or will it take it from 40 a mo to like 20 or idea about how much?
I think there is a saltwater clam that helps with nitrates i seen it on this site for sale but i donno about the grocery store lol