10 Gallon Sump Saga

[mcmasterson]

Well i put a 90 degree elbow on the bottom of the line into the refugium to divert the flow to the outside wall to help micros dissipate before falling over the baffle. This has helped. Now with the flow turned down on the return to very minimal i have very little to no micro bubbles. I am just now concerned about the pump burning up due to the big drag of the ball valve?
I also still can't get my darn Tunze to pull any gunk out though. I know i have some because i have no other filtration going on right now and have pulled my Emperor 400 when i fired up the sump.
I am hopeful it starts to work soon! . I can tell my fish are much happier with the reduction of the bubbles. They are swimming around much more. My corals like my hammer and frogspawn have definitely shrunk and are not happy. So i hope with the bubbles gone they will sprout back up.

 

[mcmasterson]

Here is a photo of the set up. I do have a bend in my return line as i didnt cut it exactly to length. I did this in case of adjustments. Considering i have the valve turned way down, the loss of flow shouldnt be hurting with the extra loop it needs to make on it's way back to the tank so i have left it alone for now.
You can also see that the drain line into the bubble tower is just barely below the surface. It almost seems like it might create less micros when i lift it up temporarily. Then the noise is definitely increased.

 

[acrylic51]

With Flower's sump, I ran a lot bigger pump and the only reason I submerged the line was to cut down on noise and splashing, and had not issues running the pump wide open. Looking back at your pic.....is your elbow and down pipe going into the bubble tower glued already? I'm hoping it isn't, what about trying to put a vent "T" and then the down pipe to the bubble tower. What are you using in the overflow as far a strainer or such? Meaning is there just the bulkhead in the bottom of the overflow, or is there some kind of standpipe?

 

[mcmasterson]

The elbow is not glued in the bubble tower.
Is a vent "T" just a normal PVC T-vent? If i put that on wouldnt the water pour out of both holes of the T? Or am i not thinking of the same thing?
In the overflow i have a foam strainer as is shown in the picture here.
Currently i have nearly zero micro bubbles in the DT. I was able to up the flow just a hair on the ball valve but still am at 1/2 closed

 

[acrylic51]

The "vent" I'm talking about is just a standard "PVC T"......You would turn it sideways.....the cross or top of the "T" would be up and down.....the 1 end you would put a riser pipe in and run it up about 5-6", the opposite end of that would drain into the bubble tower, and the only end left would be connected to the line; plumbing coming down from the overflow. I see there is a standpipe in the overflow.....Is the water level in the overflow above or even with the standpipe?

 

[mcmasterson]

oh ok, so i would have a straight PVC pipe coming off the T heading straight upwards. Does this release some air bubbles as it goes slightly up the T before the majority heads down into the bubble tower?
The water level is maybe 1/2-1" above the standpipe in the outer overflow box.
My tank is looking good now in terms of micro bubbles so that is a good sign. Only have worry if the pump will have a shortened life.
My only worry is if i start messing with stuff now i might introduce more bubbles!

 

[mcmasterson]

Man this sump is being a pain. I was pretty much bubble free the majority of the evening last night. Now this morning i am back to micro bubbles. I didnt change a single thing between the night and morning. It appears the bubbles just get worse as the day goes on which is weird. So today i stuffed some cheap polyfill in between the two baffles and i am back to near bubble free.
Is it possible bubbles are building up during the day or evening in the PVC pipe?
my drain is straight down to a T then branching off to each side of the sump with a ball valve on each branch. one leads to refugium and other leads to the bubble tower.

 

[2quills]

At this point I'd say take the rock out of the tower and put a sock on that line. Make sure that you're only pushing about a 1/3rd of your flow through the fuge side and the other 2/3rds to the skimmer side. If that doesn't help on the fuge side you could through a couple of elbows on the bottom of the drain line in the fuge so you'd have the drain drop down into the water and back up to just above the surface. Hopefully that would give the bubbles a little more time to pop, pluss help to not create so many.

 

[al&burke]

I have said this before, and nobody ever commented on it, when my calcium is low I get microbubbles, believe it or not, I've tested when I see microbubbles and the calcium is low. Add calcium bubbles go away.

 

[acrylic51]

I've never seen that Al, but anything coul be possible. On a dumb hunch; how far is the water dropping from the tank into the overflow box?

 

[mcmasterson]

About 4-5" or so depending on water levels and return pump flow. However i rule this out as being an issue as when i turn my return pump up or full blast the water level or drop in the overflow box rises creating a lower fall and i have increased bubbles. So i dont believe that is the issue.
I wonder if any of the elbows i have going on are creating the micros or at least adding to it. Yesterday i was having a lot of micros coming into the fuge drain line. I moved the entire pipe assembly to make it a bit more level and now all the fuge bubbles are long gone.
So it is just my bubble tower where the bubbles are forming now. I threw in some poly between my baffles on the skimmer/return side and i am nearly completely if not completely bubble free now. I just hate the idea of having to swap out the poly fill every other day or so.
I did pick up some filter socks, but if i am not getting any bubbles i guess it is just as easy to change the poly out over cleaning and/or replacing the filter socks every other day or so.
Do you think my return will have a shorter life since i have the ball valve turned down 1/2-2/3rds?

 

[mcmasterson]

I did test my calcium last night and i was at 340 which is low. What do you recommend i use to to increase the calcium?

 

[al&burke]

I just use kents calcium supplement

 

[mcmasterson]

Another thing is since i have made the sump active and removed my HOB emperor my water parameters have been excellent. No phosphate, trates, trites, ammonia, etc. Ideal water conditions outside of calcium.
My larger frogspawn was doing really well before i made the switch and i had a small branching hammer that was suffering a bit due to constant overwhelming of green hair algae, but it was still doing ok.
Well now both the hammer and frogspawn's tentacles look very thin and nowhere near as robust as they were prior to sump starting.
I understand micro bubbles will have an effect on corals as light has a harder time penetrating the bubbles to reach the corals among other things. So now that my bubbles have subsided, the corals still are not doing well. All day today i had the light on and no bubbles so not sure if they are shocked or what.
Any ideas?
Bright side is it looks like my GHA is subsiding. I have a lot on the rocks still, but i dont have the outrageous growth i was seeing in the past. I havent even barely needed to clean my glass the past two days! So at least there is a bright side to this!

 

[acrylic51]

Is your return plumbing PVC or vinyl tubing? Have you tried contacting the manufacturer about bubble issue, and see what he suggests? Do you have a smaller pump to swap in for a test?

 

[mcmasterson]

Return is a combo vinyl and PVC. Standard PVC and standard braided vinyl tubing from Home Depot. I dont have a smaller pump on hand, but it seems like that has to be the main culprit. That combined with the 10 gallon tank used for the sump.
I guess if it burns out it burns out. I might be able to crank it back up with the polyfill and/or filter sock put in place.
I added some of the Kent Calcium Supplement in tonight. hopefully my corals start turning the corner.
Any of you experience that with the addition of a new sump to a system and/or micro bubbles making your corals less than healthy?

 

[acrylic51]

Have you checked all your fittings on your return line to make sure your not sucking any air?

 

[mcmasterson]

I have all the fittings primed and glued on the PVC portion except the elbow in the water. I might throw some more glue around the edges to see if that will help, but pretty sure they arent sucking air as i would likely be seeing some water coming out the lines.
Since my aquarium top is semi sealed(acrylic) my overflow box cant quite get to the higher level i need in order to maintain my tank 100% full. I have about 1/2" of empty space at the top because of this. So my siphon holes on the return are just at or slightly above the water line in the tank. They are however shooting water out of them so i dont believe it is adding anything to the bubble production. So those should be the only air gaps on the return.
Regarding the overflow not being able to go up as high as i want. The teeth are hitting the top of the tank since it is sealed top. Could i cut the 3-4 teeth that are running into the top of the tank so the box can raise up? Will that have any affect on the overflow?
here is a picture of what i mean:

 

[mcmasterson]

Well still no bubbles to really speak of. However still dealing with stressed out and sick hammer and frogspawn corals. In fact nearly every coral in my tank is not what they used to be.
I would think the opposite after all the benefits of adding a sump/refugium/skimmer.
My hammer is looking like it is near death now. I have been dosing calcium and it hasnt helped a bit.
Its almost like the corals enjoyed my overrun green hair algae tank over what i have now.

 

[acrylic51]

Again that is why I had questioned the sizing of the pump originally. What's done is done though....You said you have no real bubble issues at this point, what are your parameters on the tank? Have you tried doing small water changes to try to liven your corals up?