10 Gallpn Nano Tank Problems

[ekvikmost]

I have a 10 gallon nano tank and I had 3 fish in it until this morning. One baby maroon clown, one small black and white clown and I last Saturday (5 days ago) purchased a very small baby hippo tang. The clowns have been doing VERY well for a few weeks now. I also have a bubble anemone and another anemone (name escapes me) and the anemones are doing great. I also have a tiny green emerald crab to help with the algae problem.
Checked all levels and they are good. Ammonia is good, Nitrite is 0.25, Nitrate is 20 and PH is normal. I cannot get my nitrate under 20 and I realize that my nitrite is a little high.
My hippo tang was doing great and this morning was dead. Temps in the tank are in the high 70's/low 80's. What is going on? It seems anytime I try and add one more fish for a total of 3 (and all the fish are VERY small) a fish dies. I have been told by my fish store that three would be fine, but no more.
Any advice would be appreciated. I do seem to have a small algae issue. Any suggestions on getting rid of algae (I am currently using Al-Gone, which is also supposed to help with nitrates).
Thanks for your suggestions.
Regards,
Karen

 

[chipmaker]

HOw old is this tank? Did you put all those inhabitants in together or within a few days? What is "normal" ph? .......what is ocnsidered low 80's.......everyone has different ideas as to what normal and mid etc is, so more precise numbers would be better. If your getting nitrite readings yet,m its tellin gme that your not capable of supporting what yuu have in that tank doing things the way your doing them, or that its overstocked......Too much feed, too many fish, live rock if any is it sufficient and was it allowed to mature far enough to support theload.......iof no live rock what filtration system are you using? A tang of any size will soon be too large for such a small tank......if yur gonna play with nano tanks, go with small fish like the goby or firefish, blennies etc, or maybe even pygmy angle or the smaller speices of a damsel. While 0 is fairly small I have kept a clown in mine already just fine. I assume you have sufficient lighting for those anemone.
A lkot of times the algae (al gone) products can reduce oxygen levels. Best thing is dowhat can be done to prevent alage and higher levels of nitrites. Reduce feeding or look at what feed yur feeding and how much and how often, your lighting duration, the tupe water used, tap/ro/rodi? I would do a water change to further reduce the nitrite level, and key in on why your getting the test readings yur getting.....it is all starting from ammonia produced somewhere.

 

[ekvikmost]

HOw old is this tank? Tank is a few months old.
Did you put all those inhabitants in together or within a few days? No, the two clown fish were in there for a few weeks doing well as was the emerald crab and the anemones. The hippo tang was just added last Saturday after I discussed it with my fish guy and he said there would be no problem adding another fish for a total of 3.
what is ocnsidered low 80's....... The tank ranges from 77 to 83 degrees. Lower at night when the lights aren't on. The only light on at night is the moon light. During the day I leave the other two lights that came with the tank on.
Too much feed -- I have been feeding flakes, pellets and frozen shrimp. Not all at the same time. I have been feeding a little bit twice a day. Maybe too much feed?
live rock -- that was put in, along with live sand from day one.
A tang of any size will soon be too large for such a small tank......I understand that the tang was going to outgrow the tank, but when I purchased the fish it was only an inch and a half and my fish guy said that he wouldn't grow that fast and as he got larger I could return him.
I assume you have sufficient lighting for those anemone -- see above. Anemone are thriving and growing!!
the tupe water used, tap/ro/rodi? I am using tap water with a filtration system on it and I am removing chlorine.
I would do a water change -- I have been doing water changes faithfully. I just replaced the carbon, I have been cleaning the other filtration (not all at the same time of course), including the sponge.

 

[pclown]

I will second what chipmaker said, and will say that he asked good questions that we need to know so we can better help you. Can you give us your complete setup with how long and the exact reading on your water. Also I know that the fish are small but they can out grow that tank very fast. A Maroon Clown can get up to 8 inches and needs a 30g tank and a baby blue hippo will out grow a 10g tank in 3 months or less (According to the size that it is now).
We will be glad to help.

 

[chipmaker]

For starters. Lets adress algae first. Do not use any additives to get rid of it, as that stuff usually comes bnack to bite you in the butt one day or another.... I suspect the duration yu leave the lights on (what type of lights do you have and what wattages) I wol dnot have lights on any longer than 10 hours total for now. Moonlight does not add or take away anything so its not important. I would back off the flake food, and go with pelleted which states no phospates, and also decrease the amount of feed. Yes it maya be neat and kind for use to want to fatten em up, but really the object is maintain them, not make couch potatoes out of them. Rarely in thew wilds will a fish be full, they are maintained.....Another problem with alage is your water. Evidently its not rodi water so your not really filtering out some items that can pose a potential for introducing algae Usually folks that have a reef type tank use ro or rodi water...........makes a big difference. How much live rock do you have.....if its your main filter then it should have at least 15 pounds or more, preferably more to be effective. The temp yu state is a pretty wide variation, and odds are its too varied to be good for the fish. YOU may need to add a heater and pust that heater up to the point it hangs just below what the higher end is ands try and maintaian as little flkuctuation as possible. We keep our house cold enough here to hang meat, so even in the summer we have to bump the heater up, to maintain a stabil tank temp, or at night it would drop down to low 70's (70 -73 deg).
A single water change with rodi water is not gonna make too much of a difference as its gona take quite a few to get the algae under control, but its a start. YOu can get rodi water at wal mart in the 5 gal blue containers in the grocery section in most stores.......change food type from flake and feed less, and limit liight duratin. Is there any outside light that shines on the tank during the day? If so it may need to be relocated or a curtain pulled, as sunlight is bad about producing algae on a tank in short order no matter what you do.

 

[reefdude37]

never listen to your lfs, also, to make this short and simple, never put a tang in a tank less that 100 gallons, you are going to have problems, trust me

 

[ekvikmost]

What is rodi water? I don't know what the rodi stands for?
No, there is no sun coming in at all and there already is a heater in the tank.
There is alot of live rock in that tank, but I cannot tell you how many pounds. I purchased the entire set up from a very reputable salt water aquarium and he weighed it and I believe there is at least 15 lbs. of rock in there, if not more. I have a couple small pieces of coral in there as well.
I have been told that clowns are the perfect fish for the NANO tanks and I am not in a position to buy a bigger tank as I don't have the room. I wanted a small tank and am happy with 2 or 3 fish max. I just wanted to know why the tang died, but perhaps it died because (1) it was sick to begin with or (2) my tank conditions. The clowns are thriving though??

 

[reefdude37]

The tang died beucase your tanks to small to keep a tang.

 

[piscian]

1. RO water is reverse osmosis water. It's water that has been stripped of harmful minerals.
2. Not all clowns are suitiable for nanos. Maroons are known for being more aggressive and bigger than say Perculas. And I would say that if you wanted to keep clowns in a 10 gallon, I would go with two Perculas and no other fish.
3. As far as reputible fish stores, they are only as truthful as you are educated. I love my local fish store, but I've seen him sell things to less informed people that their systems couldn't support.
4. What type of lighting and wattage are you running?

 

[ekvikmost]

I can't answer this question intelligently as I purchased the entire 12 gallon (I originally said 10, but it is 12) set up as it came. It has three lights. One has a fan, the one in the middle, and the light on the right that only goes on at night.
As far as my LFS, I trust him as I hardly EVER buy anything from him. He is 40 minutes away from my house and he has been extremely helpful on the phone with me and has talked endlessly to me. I don't believe he is trying to sell me fish.
Also the two clown fish that are in there now (the maroon and the black and white) were both babies and I was told that if they grow up in the tank together that they can get along. Not guaranteed, but that they can. They are getting along great now.
I do my water changes once a week. I clean my filtration substrates alternating so that to not clean them all at the same time.
The only thing that I have not been doing is using the RoDi water, but I will go to Wal-Mart this weekend and get that and do a partial water change this weekend.
Thanks for your help. This is alot of work, but I think worth it.

 

[ekvikmost]

Okay, here are the specs on my tank. I had to go to the webpage and get them:
Built-In 3 Stage Filtration
Newly redesigned filtration system allows for better surface skimming and more room in the rear for larger pumps for DIY customers. The filtration compartment is hedden in the rear and provides maximum space for tank inhabitants. All models now include a output return nozzle for directional flow control.
Mechanical - Sponge filter traps detritus and free floating particulate matter
Chemical - Activated Carbon bag removes dissolved organics and odor
Biological - Ceramic Rings and Bioballs provide the ideal environment for beneficial bacteria.
Submersible Pump - Includes a 105 GPH pump for water circulation.
Built-In Dual Cooling Fans.
Two Built-In 60 x 60 mm cooling fans that deliver the proper cfm for plenty of cooling while remaining totally quiet! Both fans automatically turn on with the lighting. Fans are protected with a special splash guard to resist corrossion and salt creep.
Includes (1) 24 watt 50/50 Powercompact lamps with UL approved german "snap-In" lamp sockets for easy bulb install and removals. Installed with splash guard lens for lamp protection.
Nite Vu LED Moonlight Lighting
2-1 Watt LEDs lights inbetween the lamps give your fish and invertebrates a more natural approach to aquarium lighting. In ideal aquarium conditions these fixtures may also promote spawning activity and will enhance coral luminescence. The lights are combined with the canopy and has their own switch. The moonlights extend the viewing pleasure of your aquarium beyond normal daylight hours - you'll be amazed at how much life comes out to feed and interact once the main lights have gone out. The shimmering moonlight effect really does look amazing .

 

[piscian]

It is deffinately worth the time and energy that goes into it

As far as the clowns go, the black and white clown is probably and Ocelleris(sp). It's very doubtful that they will get along. When they establish their genders, they will probably start fighting. And the Maroon, being the dominate clown, will beat the poor Ocelleris to death. The only time you can mix species of clowns with success is when you have a larger tank.
The lighting system that you have is a PC(Power Compact). The "blue" lights that come on at night is called an atinic. You can actually support a reef system with this lighting. You could have some soft corals and a few long polyp stony corals.
With nanos, slow and steady is what will win the race. Unlike larger tanks, little problems can become major in a day with nanos. Introducing just one new thing can affect a nano for months. Deal with your algea issue first by cutting your light down to run no more than 8 hours a day. Feed your fish only every other day. And do a 20% water change with R/O water until your problem clears up.

 

[ekvikmost]

Thanks for the positive reinforcement. It gets tough losing fish and being told that I am doing everything wrong when I am trying so hard.
I will keep my eye on the clowns and if I see fighting I will have to separate them. What clowns would get along with the maroon clown? I hear that you cannot put two maroon clowns in a tank together. Would a regular percula get along?
Do you think that I could have 3 fish total? I really was hoping to have two clowns and another small fish.
Would a scooter bleny be considered a fish as far as the total number of fish in the tank? I have heard that because they are bottom feeders that they don't count towards the number of fish in the tank and I think they are really cool fish!!
Regards,
Karen

 

[piscian]

If you want to keep the Maroon, then I would let that be your only clown fish. If you wanted to have another fish in the tank, I would suggest a fire goby or maybe even a clown goby. This would be the only other fish that your tank could support given the size that the Maroon will become. Sorry, I know that you really didn't want to hear that, but It's true. Now if your black and white turned out to be a Percula, then you could put a smaller orange Percula in there and that would be fine. But you would deffinately have to get rid of the Maroon to do that.

 

[reefdude37]

I say that any lfs that sells someone a blue tang to up in a 10/12 gallon is a bad one.

 

[pclown]

Originally Posted by ReefDude37
I say that any lfs that sells someone a blue tang to up in a 10/12 gallon is a bad one.
I agree

 

[chipmaker]

Sound like you have an Aqua POd or a JBJ Nano Cube. The lights in those are far form being sufficient for anenomes to survive under.... A clown does not have to have a anenome to host in either. See if LFS will swaop maroon clowns for perculas.....you will be a lot better off.
Its possible that tang was sick or it could have been stressed or it could have died from acclimating, there is awholle host of thngs that could have happened, and its pretty hard to say exactly what it died from.
NOt to rain on yur parade or anythng, but if yu happen to have a JBJ NANO Cube, be aware they are prone to just up and cracking for no set reason, and even though JBJ says the problem has been fixed there seems to be just as many folkd hollering a9out cracked new ones as there was old ones. Aqua pods by Current have their problems too, but from what I heard has it straighted away.....
Are yu running the ceramic rings/blocks in the filter compartment n that cube? The majority of folks usually do not use the activated carbon all the time, and none hardly use the ceramic media. They take a handfull or cup full of live rock rubble and add some chaeto morphia in that compartment and turn it into a mini fuge, but you have to add a small clip on light, but it seems to be a worthwhle improvement. The ceramic media can be a source of nitrate buildup.....let your live rock be the filter..not any kind of media.
You can get a phosphate sponge or pad thatb just gets placed in the compartment an dit will remove phosphate which is an essential element for algae growth. IIRC chemi Pure or Puri Gen in a mesh bag will also rid any nitrate and phosphates as well and helps eliminate essential elements for algae growth.
Lots of luck..........you'll get there.....

 

[ekvikmost]

Sound like you have an Aqua POd or a JBJ Nano Cube. Yes, I have the JBJ Nano Cube and I knew about the cracking problems and purchased one of the ones they say the problem is fixed in. The anemones that I have are doing great and are getting bigger so the lights must be doing their job. I really don't have the ability to put any additional lighting on this tank, do I?
I really LOVE my maroon clown. They are getting along great now but if I see a problem I would probably get rid of the black and white percula and get something else for the tank. I also love the traditional perculas. These both were very small babies when I put them in together and my LFS said that if put in the tank together there is a good chance that they will coexist. I am keeping a close eye and so far so good.
I called my LFS and he was surprised that the tang died. This was a TINY TANG. The thing was only about an inch long. Very tiny. I knew that I would have to trade it in eventually as they get big, but I wanted to see if I could enjoy him for a few months. My LFS said that it would take at least a year for a tang to out grow my tank since he was so small.
I also understand that salt water tanks are hard to maintain and that fish die.
Yes, I have the ceramic rings in the filter compartment. I also have a carbon bag and the bio balls and I have an AL-GONE pouch in there. I had a phosphate pouch but it was old and I took it out and didn't replace it.
Should I replace the phosphate pouch?
What is live rock rubble? Where would I get that and are you saying that this would replace the rings? I do not know how I would add a clip on light. Would the light be for the rubble and wouldn't it get wet in that compartment? The top of the tank doesn't have any openings so I don't see how I could clip on a light.
Thanks for your input. I appreciate it.

 

[reefdude37]

Yes, I have the ceramic rings in the filter compartment. I also have a carbon bag and the bio balls and I have an AL-GONE pouch in there. I had a phosphate pouch but it was old and I took it out and didn't replace it.
I would take all that stuff out, becuase it can build nitrates, I would add liverock to the compartments

 

[bluelove]

tang is tooooo big for your tank no matter how small he is. his body design is for fast swimming in open waters. a nano is like putting him in a zip lock. i also understand they are easily stressed in small and that weekens their immune system witch in turn eventually leeds to death!!!!