220 stock list

[sk8shorty01]

Hello all,
I just bought a complete setup 220g tank last week which I transfered everything (including 165g worth of water) and I am now trying to build a stock list for it. The tank had CC in it, so I pulled all that out and trashed it for live sand (I bought 180 lbs which will be going in tonight). This should start a mini cycle so I will not be adding any new fish for a little bit. I just wanted to run a list by you guys and see if I could add these fish at some point in time, and maybe find out which ones should be added last.
The Current Stock:
7" Clown Trigger
9" Volitan Lion
Wanted Stock:
Queen Angel
Emperor Angel (can 2 large angels get along in a 220?)
Powder Blue Tang
Achilles Tang
Purple Tang
Yellow Tang (will it have enough room to get along with the purple?)
Niger Trigger (will it fight with the clown?)
Picasso Trigger (will it fight with the clown?)
Glass Eye
Snow Flake Eel
This is not written in stone by any means, these are just a few of the fish that I like and would like to house in an aggressive style tank. There will be no corals, it is a FOWLR. Thanks in advance for your opinions!

 

[ccampbell57]

Originally Posted by sk8shorty01
Hello all,
I just bought a complete setup 220g tank last week which I transfered everything (including 165g worth of water) and I am now trying to build a stock list for it. The tank had CC in it, so I pulled all that out and trashed it for live sand (I bought 180 lbs which will be going in tonight). This should start a mini cycle so I will not be adding any new fish for a little bit. I just wanted to run a list by you guys and see if I could add these fish at some point in time, and maybe find out which ones should be added last.
The Current Stock:
7" Clown Trigger
9" Volitan Lion
Wanted Stock:
Queen Angel
Emperor Angel (can 2 large angels get along in a 220?)
Powder Blue Tang
Achilles Tang
Purple Tang
Yellow Tang (will it have enough room to get along with the purple?)
Niger Trigger (will it fight with the clown?)
Picasso Trigger (will it fight with the clown?)
Glass Eye
Snow Flake Eel
This is not written in stone by any means, these are just a few of the fish that I like and would like to house in an aggressive style tank. There will be no corals, it is a FOWLR. Thanks in advance for your opinions!
Great pickup on the 220! Sounds like a fun adventure coming up.
Your stock list looks good. There are a couple of things though.
1. Yes you can have 2 large angels together. Add them at the same time, and ensure that they are close to the same size. I would recommend getting them as Juvi's and let them grow up together. This will be an issue with the size of your clown trigger (assuming he is pretty aggressive). I highly reccomend that these are the final fish added to the tank. You need to have very high water quality with LR that is not new. Also, if you want to get mature ones they will be very pricey. You dont want to throw them into the tank and have the Clown be an a$$ and have battles. The end result will not be pretty. Use the purple and yellow tangs as guinie pigs. If they are fine, add the Achillies.
2. Purple and Yellow tangs should be fine together. 220 is a lot of room, make sure you have ample amounts of LR with lots of hiding places.
3. The niger is the least aggressive fish out of all your aggressive list. I have one in my 180 and it gets picked on by my show size Hippo tang! The Picasso is bold, but neither of them are anywhere near as tempermental as the clown can be. I underline, because some triggers are peaceful and get along and some are complete SOB's that need to be alone in a tank and will prove it by maiming or killing anything that comes in its way.
Good luck and lets see some pics!

 

[sk8shorty01]

I will be taking some pics as soon as I get my sand in the tank. The tank is great... I paid $561 for the tank, it has an all 2x2 metal framed stand, a canopy, a skirt to cover the stand (it covers the front and sides and easily pulls out to access the plumbing), 3 canister filters, UV sterilizer, protein skimmer, 80 gallon sump, and a 1500gph pump. It also came with 2x36" power compact lights, 200 lbs of CC (gone!), and 200 lbs of rock. The rock is not live rock, it is actually all fiberglass moldings (I thought they would look cheesy until I saw them in real life, they are actually kind of nice but live rock will be going in there eventually). The tank also came with the live stock (clown trigger and lion).
Oh yeah and the clown trigger is quite aggressive, he doesnt mess with the lion, but he still thinks my hand is food haha. I am using a feeding stick though and I have already weened him from live ghost shrimp to eating frozen off of a feeder stick. Now I will just have to continue so hopefully it will lose that assosiation with my hand as the source of food!

 

[usirchchris]

I can only comment on the triggers. I have a picasso and a niger, but not in the same tank. The picasso is very aggressive when eating especially...the niger is relatively calm but at times will snap when irritated. My picasso fears nothing...a fish 3 times his size does not scare him, and I think as a rule of thumb clown triggers are much worse. I have no personal experience with a clown, but research I have read suggests as it gets older it would be the only member left in the tank. And I would never put a trigger in with a lion, they love fins. However like people, all fish have different attitudes. If it was me though that clown would be in a tank by itself. The picasso and niger would probably be fine together most likely, but I would not mix a picasso and lion. My picasso is in a tank with two puffers.

 

[sk8shorty01]

Originally Posted by usirchchris
I can only comment on the triggers. I have a picasso and a niger, but not in the same tank. The picasso is very aggressive when eating especially...the niger is relatively calm but at times will snap when irritated. My picasso fears nothing...a fish 3 times his size does not scare him, and I think as a rule of thumb clown triggers are much worse. I have no personal experience with a clown, but research I have read suggests as it gets older it would be the only member left in the tank. And I would never put a trigger in with a lion, they love fins. However like people, all fish have different attitudes. If it was me though that clown would be in a tank by itself. The picasso and niger would probably be fine together most likely, but I would not mix a picasso and lion. My picasso is in a tank with two puffers.
Thanks for the info, and I will keep all of that in mind. My Clown Trigger is quite aggressive towards my hand, but he does not mess with the Lion at all. They hang out next to each other in the tank most of the time, rarely venturing off alone. I would hope that I could find other Triggers that would show some of the same personality. Both of the fish I have look great being that large and I would hate to have to get rid of either of them.

 

[kjr_trig]

Sounds like an awesome tank...I agree with Campbell and introduce new fish slowly and see how the Clown Trigg is with them, especially the Huma. I would almost think you should introduce 2 at one time though, the Clown may not be able to bully them as much.

One thing that does jump out at me though, I really don't think you can have a Powder Blue with the Achilles, they are the exact same shape Achilles and Powder Blue are very territorial (more so than Yellow and Purple). Just my opinion, but even in a tank as large as yours I don't think those 2 will coexist.
Good luck, definately post pics for us (aggressive forum

).

 

[sk8shorty01]

Originally Posted by kjr_trig
Sounds like an awesome tank...I agree with Campbell and introduce new fish slowly and see how the Clown Trigg is with them, especially the Huma. I would almost think you should introduce 2 at one time though, the Clown may not be able to bully them as much.

One thing that does jump out at me though, I really don't think you can have a Powder Blue with the Achilles, they are the exact same shape Achilles and Powder Blue are very territorial (more so than Yellow and Purple). Just my opinion, but even in a tank as large as yours I don't think those 2 will coexist.
Good luck, definately post pics for us (aggressive forum

).

Thanks for the comments, I was wondering about those tangs, as both are quite expensive (especially when you get the larger sized tangs so your clown wont eat them) so I dont want a 100 dollar fish that just gets attacked from the get go. I am not sure what size tank would be required to house these two fish together but that is what I am hoping someone would be able to inform me of.

 

[usirchchris]

OH NO, I would never get rid of a fish. It's a perfect excuse to get more tanks

. The only thing I am hung up on is that clown. I think all of the others you could just monitor, to see how they act together. Too many times, however, something happens unexpectedly when you are not around. Perhaps someone with another clown could comment. If yours is that big and is not causing problems, maybe it will be fine. How old is it at 7"?...can it attain that length in months? I am not sure how old clown triggers are when people talk about them "snapping" and going psycho.

 

[sk8shorty01]

Im not sure how old it is, it came with the tank, and the tank was set up for years. I just know he is roughly 7" (give or take an inch). The lion is closer to the 9-10" range, but he is beautiful. The clown is pretty much docile towards the lion from what I have seen so far (although it has only been 2 weeks with this tank). I hope there are other clown trigger owners out there that could help me out with this one. I would love to get a decent idea for what I am going to stock this tank with, it just gets me that much more excited about it haha... Thanks again for the comments!

 

[ccampbell57]

Originally Posted by kjr_trig
Sounds like an awesome tank...I agree with Campbell and introduce new fish slowly and see how the Clown Trigg is with them, especially the Huma. I would almost think you should introduce 2 at one time though, the Clown may not be able to bully them as much.

One thing that does jump out at me though, I really don't think you can have a Powder Blue with the Achilles, they are the exact same shape Achilles and Powder Blue are very territorial (more so than Yellow and Purple). Just my opinion, but even in a tank as large as yours I don't think those 2 will coexist.
Good luck, definately post pics for us (aggressive forum

).
Totally agree on the powder blue and the achillies. I missed the Powder in your stock list.
I had a 5" PBT and he was my most aggressive fish in the tank. He bullied the blueface around like a little girl. He didnt bother the Emperor because they came together in the same shipment when they were tiny.
He was so aggressive that he would fly around the tank like a rocket and scare the crap out of everything in its way.
Either choose him or the Achillie. IMHO I would go with the Achillies

 

[sk8shorty01]

Well if I had to choose one I would definitely take the Achillies. So even with a 220 you think it would be to small to accomidate both of their territorial behavior? Oh well, I guess I can live without the Powder Blue, although they are amazing looking fish. Thanks for the comments. Now I just have to figure out if the clown will put up with any newbies in "his" tank haha.

 

[lesleybird]

You will be way overstocked if you add all of those fish. Half the amount is what you need. To find the stocking levels for saltwater fish one needs not only to go for about 1 inch of fish for every 4 gallons max when taking into account the adult size of each fish, but considering the the territorial demands of large agressive the fish also. The bioload that you mention would work for mabe a year or so if you get all the fish really small, but you will be in trouble later when the fish are even half grown keeping the water quality from being crap with the fish being disease prone from the stress of overstocking and the stress of fish fighting for territory.
One can mix large angelfish but I have read that the queen is not a good one to mix with other angels as it is very territorial and agressive when it gets larger.
Here is how I calculate your bioload of your fish using maximum sizes from a reputable site for each of your fish:
Full grown size in inches
Clown Trigger 20
Volitan lion 15
Queen angel 18
Emperor angel 18
Powder blue tang 9
Purple tang 10
Achilles tang 8
Yellow tang 8
Niger Trigger 12
Picasso Trigger 10
Glass eye 12
Snoflake eel maybe a bioload of a 7 inch fish
I get 144 inches which is way too high for a 220 gallon saltwater tank. If you are conservative and only say they will reach 70 percent of thie sizes mentioned then it is still about 101 inches of fish which is too high.
You need to aim at like 55 inches of fish at 70 percent size for a 220 to be a responsible saltwater fish keeper at one inch of fish per 4 gallons. You could even maybe get away with 73 inches of fish at the 70 percent of full grown size which would be one inch of fish per 3 gallons which is pushing the max limit for overstocking to keep the fish healthy. The bioload of each large fish you have in there eating and pooping is a whole lot for each fish. Anyone else think the same? these are the stocking levels that I have read in the many books that I have on saltwater fish care. If you are used to freshwater then the rule is 1 to 2 inches of fish per gallon, but we are not talking freshwater here. Lesley

 

[sk8shorty01]

Originally Posted by Lesleybird
You will be way overstocked if you add all of those fish. Half the amount is what you need. To find the stocking levels for saltwater fish one needs not only to go for about 1 inch of fish for every 4 gallons max when taking into account the adult size of each fish, but considering the the territorial demands of large agressive the fish also. The bioload that you mention would work for mabe a year or so if you get all the fish really small, but you will be in trouble later when the fish are even half grown keeping the water quality from being crap with the fish being disease prone from the stress of overstocking and the stress of fish fighting for territory.
One can mix large angelfish but I have read that the queen is not a good one to mix with other angels as it is very territorial and agressive when it gets larger.
Here is how I calculate your bioload of your fish using maximum sizes from a reputable site for each of your fish:
Full grown size in inches
Clown Trigger 20
Volitan lion 15
Queen angel 18
Emperor angel 18
Powder blue tang 9
Purple tang 10
Achilles tang 8
Yellow tang 8
Niger Trigger 12
Picasso Trigger 10
Glass eye 12
Snoflake eel maybe a bioload of a 7 inch fish
I get 144 inches which is way too high for a 220 gallon saltwater tank. If you are conservative and only say they will reach 70 percent of thie sizes mentioned then it is still about 101 inches of fish which is too high.
You need to aim at like 55 inches of fish at 70 percent size for a 220 to be a responsible saltwater fish keeper at one inch of fish per 4 gallons. You could even maybe get away with 73 inches of fish at the 70 percent of full grown size which would be one inch of fish per 3 gallons which is pushing the max limit for overstocking to keep the fish healthy. The bioload of each large fish you have in there eating and pooping is a whole lot for each fish. Anyone else think the same? these are the stocking levels that I have read in the many books that I have on saltwater fish care. If you are used to freshwater then the rule is 1 to 2 inches of fish per gallon, but we are not talking freshwater here. Lesley

I have heard that while your tank is immature, the rule is 1 inch per 4 gallons, but after the tank is matured that number lowers to 1 inch every 2 gallons. That would mean at 101 inches for 70% of the max size, I would be slightly under the 1 inch for every 2 gallons. I dont think this would be overstocked, and the bioload would not be a problem with a 80 gallon sump (which brings me to 300 gallons), protein skimmer, and UV sterilizer. I am not saying that you are incorrect, I am just stating what I have heard previously, which could be incorrect. Could anyone else chime in as we seem to have different "rules of thumb" coming up. Thanks again for the replies.

 

[sk8shorty01]

Originally Posted by ccampbell57
Totally agree on the powder blue and the achillies. I missed the Powder in your stock list.
I had a 5" PBT and he was my most aggressive fish in the tank. He bullied the blueface around like a little girl. He didnt bother the Emperor because they came together in the same shipment when they were tiny.
He was so aggressive that he would fly around the tank like a rocket and scare the crap out of everything in its way.
Either choose him or the Achillie. IMHO I would go with the Achillies
Could I substitute a Blonde Naso for the Powder Blue? Just wondering, although I dont know much about that particular tang. They are also very beautiful fish and would compliment the rest of my fish well (colorwise). I have looked for information but its hard to tell from fish to fish if they will be ok with similar shapes or not. Thanks!

 

[ccampbell57]

Originally Posted by Lesleybird
You will be way overstocked if you add all of those fish. Half the amount is what you need. To find the stocking levels for saltwater fish one needs not only to go for about 1 inch of fish for every 4 gallons max when taking into account the adult size of each fish, but take into account the territorial demands of the fish also. The bioload that you mention would work for mabe a year or so if you get all the fish really small, but you will be in trouble later when the fish are even half grown keeping the water quality from being crap with the fish being disease prone from the stress of overstocking and the stress of fish fighting for territory.
One can mix large angelfish but I have read that the queen is not a good one to mix with other angels as it is very territorial and agressive when it gets larger.
Here is how I calculate your bioload of your fish using maximum sizes from a reputable site for each of your fish:
Full grown size in inches
Clown Trigger 20
Volitan lion 15
Queen angel 18
Emperor angel 18
Powder blue tang 9
Purple tang 10
Achilles tang 8
Yellow tang 8
Niger Trigger 12
Picasso Trigger 10
Glass eye 12
Snoflake eel maybe a bioload of a 7 inch fish
I get 144 inches which is way too high for a 220 gallon saltwater tank. If you are conservative and only say they will reach 70 percent of thie sizes mentioned then it is still about 101 inches of fish which is too high.
You need to aim at like 55 inches of fish at 70 percent size for a 220 to be a responsible saltwater fish keeper at one inch of fish per 4 gallons. You could even maybe get away with 73 inches of fish at the 70 percent of full grown size which would be one inch of fish per 3 gallon which is pushing the max limit for overstocking to keep the fish healthy. Anyone else think the same? these are the stocking levels that I have read in the many books that I have on saltwater fish care. Lesley
Lesley,
I agree to a certian extent on your calculations. I agree that a good aquarist should plan on the worst case scenario when buying a fish. Does this always happen? No, but many do what they can. I have heard of many calculations over the years from 1 inch for every 2 gallons, to 1inch for every 5. This is VERY much true when the animals are full grown and require their "space", but many aquarists cannot afford to house their full grown specimen let alone buy one in a "Show" size. I stick to the 1 inch per 3 gallons. And I make sure my tank is spotless.
Most fish never attain their full size in a home aquarium for 1 of 2 reasons. (1) the owner cannot/does not want maintain the fish at it's current needs and trades it back to the LFS or a zoo for further keeping. (2) Over the years of certian amounts of neglect and improper diet, the fish eventually fade away.
When fish are small (4-8") a 180-240 could house a lot of fish. It definitly depends on how maticulous you are with maintaining your tank. Me? I clean my tank daily. I tweak with my scraper and move water in and out because I love to do it and my fish love me for it.
If someone was to tell me they dont have a lot of time to maintain a 200+ tank then I would say stick to the 1inch per every 4-5 gallons and stick a really good UV Sterilizer on it with a good media filtration unit and a huge protien skimmer. If you are as anal about the tank as I am (and some are on this site) then there is more a chance that you can maintain a lot of fish in a smaller area (as long as they dont try to kill one another).
TLC is what every pet requires and fish are no exception. My tangs and angels (and my previous porcupine puffer) liked me to rub their bodies during feeding just like my dog. They know who I am as well as my children. They long for my attention (in fact as I write this, they are all huddled waiting for me to come see them). If you can give them this, then you are golden.

 

[ccampbell57]

Originally Posted by sk8shorty01
Could I substitute a Blonde Naso for the Powder Blue? Just wondering, although I dont know much about that particular tang. They are also very beautiful fish and would compliment the rest of my fish well (colorwise). I have looked for information but its hard to tell from fish to fish if they will be ok with similar shapes or not. Thanks!
I have have a Naso from Hawaii and he is one of my favorites. He has great personality and is as individualistic as the next. Nasos are very peaceful and would rather swim than get into confrontations. Nasos get much bigger than the Powder, but IMO they do better in more confined spaces than a PBT or a similar Sohal.

 

[sk8shorty01]

I have a UV sterilizer on my tank, although I cannot remember the name of the company off hand. I just got the tank recently and did not purchase any of these things so please excuse my ignorance. Also it has 3 in line canister filters for media filtration, along with a floss filter that the overflow flows through as it passes into the sump. I play with my tanks every day (I also have a 55g) and love tinkering here and there and just watching my fish in general. I think they enjoy watching me as much as I enjoy watching them. I am not an expert by any means, actually I am barely a novice (been into salt water for about 8 months or so). I do however, pay close attention to my tanks, and I do have patients and have taken my time with stocking my 55g. It is still not stocked all the way yet but it is slowly getting there. That tank will be turned into a reef tank soon, but until then its just a FOWLR and I enjoy every minute I can in front of it. Thanks for the replies guys, you all are the reason I have had success thus far, and I always hold your opinions over my own, as I know you all are far more experienced than I.

 

[kjr_trig]

I'm sorry, I am not trying to flame Lesliebird, but everytime she posts something she posts the size they can achieve in the wild...Fish do not grow as large in a 220 gallon tank as they do in the ocean

They just don't...PERIOD. I had a 7 year old Huma that was 3 1/2 inches, are you telling me it was not full grown? A clown trig is not going to grow to 20 inches in a 220....At the absolute most, a fish will get to 75% of the size the could achieve in the ocean in a 220 gallon tank, 60% is more likely.

 

[lesleybird]

Originally Posted by kjr_trig
I'm sorry, I am not trying to flame Lesliebird, but everytime she posts something she posts the size they can achieve in the wild...Fish do not grow as large in a 220 gallon tank as they do in the ocean

They just don't...PERIOD. I had a 7 year old Huma that was 3 1/2 inches, are you telling me it was not full grown? A clown trig is not going to grow to 20 inches in a 220....At the absolute most, a fish will get to 75% of the size the could achieve in the ocean in a 220 gallon tank, 60% is more likely.

I was saying to caculate 70 percent of the max size in the wild and then to go with 4 inches per gallon. Even if one were to say that 4 inches per gallon is conservative, all the fish listed will beat each other up because they need more space to call their own. Each fish needs at least his own cave or something. Go ahead and stock like that and I will be laughing when the whole tank comes down with a disease from stress.

 

[kjr_trig]

Originally Posted by Lesleybird
I was saying to caculate 70 percent of the max size in the wild and then to go with 4 inches per gallon. Even if one were to say that 4 inches per gallon is conservative, all the fish listed will beat each other up because they need more space to call their own. Each fish needs at least his own cave or something. Go ahead and stock like that and I will be laughing when the whole tank comes down with a disease from stress.
Lesley, I'm sorry if my post sounded harsh toward you as I am sure you mean well, but you seem really closed minded and #'s obsessed, there is more than one theory on how to stock a tank.