29 Gallon to 120 Gallon Upgrade Build

acrylic51

Active Member
I think your correct in your thinking......Making that 6' horizontal run is about equivalent to 1' of head pressure, but with that said the pump doesn't have the "juice" to overcome that, so you best course of action would be to try to pump it upward first......Even after replumbing I think your going to have to toy with the timing. I suspect it will take a tad longer than your original calculation to fill the tank.....
A side note....What would happen if for whatever reason the pump would drain water away from the sump, but unable to return the "said" amount.....I'm assuming the whole time during your water change your return pump is continuously running.....
 

marvelfan

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/393629/29-gallon-to-120-gallon-upgrade-build/80#post_3509882
I think your correct in your thinking......Making that 6' horizontal run is about equivalent to 1' of head pressure, but with that said the pump doesn't have the "juice" to overcome that, so you best course of action would be to try to pump it upward first......Even after replumbing I think your going to have to toy with the timing. I suspect it will take a tad longer than your original calculation to fill the tank.....
A side note....What would happen if for whatever reason the pump would drain water away from the sump, but unable to return the "said" amount.....I'm assuming the whole time during your water change your return pump is continuously running.....
Correct. The water change occurs with the main pump running. This way the water level changes consistenly. Here are the steps:
1. ATO Powers off
2. Pump from the Sump to the drain starts to pump water out. If the water level is too low already the bottom switch will be closed. If this occurs the pump will fail to start (this is a good thing).
3. Over about 2 minutes the dirty water will pump put to the drain in the amount of 1 gallon. (At this point the pump will only run until the bottom switch closes or time expires for the pump to run. I would think about 3 minutes max, but I'm going to time it and add no more then 15-20 seconds)
4. After 3 minutes have passed (whether it took 3 minutes of pumping or the switch shut down the pump) there will be a 1 minute break where no pumps run.
5. After that minute break the saltwater storage pump will turn on (if for any reason the top float switch is open, meaning the water level is too high or already at the right level to pump will not turn on).
6. One gallon of water will pump into the sump for either ~3 min or until the top float switch opens.
7. ATO turns back on.
Each outlet is then deactivate for the remainder of the day and can't be triggered again by a float switch to activate a pumps as a safety precaution.
Something I didn't think about is if my return pump fails. Currently if this happens sump would pump out a couple gallons, and most likely not pump long enough to trigger the switch however, new water would not pump back in because the top refill switch would already be open. When I do finally get around to starting up my return pump I can then manually run the refill of the water to appropriate level. No risk of flood or completely draining my sump.
The other scenario you bring up is that the sump empties but doesn't refill. The worse case scenario is that the 1 gallon is replaced as RO/DI from the ATO. Obviously not desirable, but also not a hug concern unless it goes untreated for days. I feel I would catch on to this in time. My next purchase will most likely be the .NET module for my controller, so I can have it tell me when a pump fails or a switch didn't trigger when it should have.
Also I'll be running this auto change daily around my bed time. I always check my tank before bed, so most of the time I will be around to see it perform the change. Unless I'm out of town, which is rare.
 

acrylic51

Active Member
A stupid question and maybe you already answered it earlier, but does the system rely on timers or floats.....I'm curious because when in the drain mode theoretically it wouldn't drain exactly the precise amount there would still be water in the drain line that would back siphon to the sump.........
 

marvelfan

Member
It relies on the floats to stop at the appropriate level. When it fills with fresh saltwater it was exactly to the line when it stopped. So that isn't an issue, but yes. I've working on the sump out to the drain.
I have the level I want, but I may have to adjst the bottom float switch based on back siphon. I'm going to be playing with pitching the plumbing to reduce back siphon amounts as much as possible.
A fully loaded 100 feet of 1/2 PVC carries 1.6 gallons. I have about 10-12' of pvc total and only a portion will back siphon. So even if all of the water back siphoned it would only be about 2 cups of water. but I feel only about 3' will back siphon, which is about 1/2 a cup of water.
I don't think it will be too bad, but the other thing to remember is that whatever volume actually comes out is what is replaced. So even if there is some back siphon, that much less fresh saltwater will be pumped back in.
I'll hopefully find out tonight.
Good thinking though!!! Your keeping me on my toes!
 

acrylic51

Active Member
I remembered you mentioning looking at skimmers.......Here's a new 1 by Reef Octopus that might interest you.......

Reef Octopus "POV Protein Skimmer | PRO-SSS-DC1


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Reef Octopus Professional Open Volute “POV” protein skimmers| PRO-SSS-DC1

The Reef Octopus Professional Open Volute “POV” protein skimmers are the ultimate when it comes to space saver skimmers and will be available from CoralVue dealers in January of 2013. The soft start DC pinwheel pump provides both controllable water delivery and air induction to the protein skimmer. This allows users to select from six preset RPMs tune the skimmers performance on push button demand. The pump also features a unique 10 minute feed/service shutoff timer which restarts after 10 minutes. The unique feature of these POV skimmers is the pumps volute is integrated within the body of the skimmer to reduce the amount of space taken up by the skimmer pump.
- Ramp up pump speeds
- Turbulence Reducing Wine Glass Body
- Feed/Maintenance Timer
- Soft Start DC pump
- Disassemble




Model



Pump



Body Size



Footprint



For Aquariums up to







POV-DC1



DC-3500s



6?



11.7? x 9.85? x 21?



200gal





POV-DC2



DC-5500s



8?

5, 255);">12.5? x 10.1? x 23.7?


400gal





POV-DC3



DC-5500s



9?



13.6? x 11.3? x 25.2?



500gal



Quantity:
 

marvelfan

Member
Sounds like a really cool skimmer. Controllable at that!. Just found a place taking pre-orders . the 200 gallon model is going for $540. Not too bad. I'm gonna think about that one.
Thanks for the info.
 

acrylic51

Active Member
Sounds like a novel idea....Not sure if I'm super crazy about the controller.....Seems like an extra piece of electronics for possible malfunction.......
 

marvelfan

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/393629/29-gallon-to-120-gallon-upgrade-build/80#post_3510220
Sounds like a novel idea....Not sure if I'm super crazy about the controller.....Seems like an extra piece of electronics for possible malfunction.......
Yeah. I feel that on a product like that I would actually want to wait and not feel like a BETA tester, being one of the first to get it. I think I'll end up getting a nice simple cone skimmer rated for just lightly larger then my tank.
I moved over all my livestock and coral and live rock today. Everyone seems happy and healthy. I took my time moving them on waves over the course of the day. I took 3 trips and broke it up. Fish first.. then live rock and coral and lastly my inverts. I properly acclimated everyone. The only casualties that I seem to have had are a couple snails. They are not moving, but I'll give them a day or so and see if they move.
Unfortunately, I did spot a pair of aiptasia stalks today after moving the rock over. It must of been hiding on one side that wasn't visible in the other tank. The other thing I noticed is that I could not find any of my 3 peppermint shrimp I put in the tank last month. I shook all pieces of live rock and can't find a single one. Only thing that may have got to them is my blue hermit. The guy is HUGE.

Debating on whether to remove the rock with the aiptasia (it has my zoa and monti on it as well) and then try to cover a portion of the rock with a kalkwasser paste to burn out the aiptsasia, or try my hand at a couple more peppermint shrimp. I'm thinking that now that there is about 4x the room and a zillon more hiding places in the new tank that they may have better chance of survival.
 

acrylic51

Active Member
Looks good......
Yeah the controllable pump on the skimmer is a novel idea and would allow you to tune the skimmer to your needs.....Maybe this would be my solution to that line not being able to be run in deeper water depths.....Who knows we'll see shortly a couple people I think actually did get them or should be taking delivery shortly.........
I'd probably opt for the kalk paste.....Peppermint shrimp are hit or miss IMO.....Hopefully your guys will show up.....they can be pretty go hiders
 

marvelfan

Member
Yeah. I'm going to try the kalk method tonight. I think I'll take the whole rock out of the water and smother the area and crevice with kalk and then give it some time to work. Not sure If I want to take a chance of imploding the pest in the tank and taking the chance of it spreading. I even thought of chiseling off the corner of the rock where it resides.
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Awesome build here, Marvel!
Yes, on the aiptasia. Get rid of them NOW (while ya can). :)
I still have nightmares. :(
 

marvelfan

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/393629/29-gallon-to-120-gallon-upgrade-build/80#post_3510436
Any further testing on the water change setup.....
The change system was working over the weekend, but I'm not happy with the pumps. They are just a little bit undersized. I decided to keep them as circulation pumps. I have some Rio 800's showing up today. They give me a couple more feet of head pressure to work with. I hope they do the trick. I'll post an update later tonight I hope. I also grabbed my skimmer from my old setup and I'm planning on trying to get that installed by the weekend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51
http:///t/393629/29-gallon-to-120-gallon-upgrade-build/80#post_3510389
Chiseling seems extreme......Maybe cutting it off with a diamond blade, but still extreme.......

Yeah.. I dosed it with Kalk paste and let it sit out of the water for 5-10 min. Then rinsed it off and put it back. I'll have to see if it pops back up.. If it does I'll dose it again.
 

sweatervest13

Active Member
The tank looks good Marvel!! I enjoy reading up on the progress. I am glad the move of all the fish and corals went well. If all you lost was a few snails, I would say that is a success.
 

marvelfan

Member
I got the new Rio Plus 800 pumps in. World of difference! The pump out now pumps out from the Sump into stationary drain. I adjusted the float switches and it pumps exactly one gallon to the top of the container. I got lucky my first adjustment

The pump from the clean saltwater bin was a bit too strong. I wanted a steady fill rate. So i adjusted the flow and it is working awesome. My salinity after all the changes I did last week was right on 1.026. I'm going to run it manually one a day for a couple weeks and test parameters again. Once I know there is no major shift in salinity either way I'll set it to automatic changes.
I also put the Ehiem 3000 Compact into place in my saltwater mixing station. Works pretty well and keeps the water moving at a really good rate. I'm not going to run it all the time. I'm actually going to set it to run for 24 hours when I make fresh water. Then about an hour before my auto changes I'll have it turn on to mix for an hour before the water is sent out to the tank.
Lastly, I placed a my skimmer into the sump. I'm breaking it in again now. I figure its better then nothing even though its undersized. I'm thinking that the combination of the skimmer and the algae scrubber may make up for it in the long run, but I"m not sure at this point.
Next project is to finish the algae scrubber. That's the plan for the weekend!
 

marvelfan

Member
So the algae scrubber is in place, but I had an accident. When I placed my sump in my stand I pushed it all the way flush with the back and the left side. I needed to hang my skimmer on the back lip of the aquarium but couldn't do to no space for the clip. I decided to shut off my pumps and drain the sump water out into a 18 gallon container so that I could lighten up the sump enough to slide it over a couple inches. This worked great. No problems moving it. The issue is that when i pulled it forward I snagged the PVC drain pipe going back to my refugium. The glass was already cracked from a mishap a month ago, but I patched it up and it was holding great.
When I pulled the sump forward I put pressure on the bulk head and it cracked in 3 places in different spots. It still help water but was starting to drip down the side slowly. I ended up shutting off the valve to the refugium and draining out all the water. Then I placed my cheato and rock rubble into the 18 gallon bucket with a light and a small 10 gallon filter.
At this point I'm going to run without the refugium. I'm hoping the scrubber makes up for it.
I do have a 20 gallon long I could replace the refugium with, but from what I read it could be counter productive if my scrubber works as it should My cheato would be competing with the scrubber.
Any opinions?
 
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