3 gallon pico long term anyone?
- Thread starter fishtaco
- Start date
debbie
Active Member
I have a 3 gal pico, its been going for over a year now with no issues. I have only ever had nano tanks and never an issue if you don't overstock it.
In mine I have: Ricordeas, green star polyps, zoas, anthelia, 1 yellow clown goby, 2 sexy shrimp, 1 pom pom crab, 1 cleaner shrimp, 2 snails, 1 crab. For filteration I have a very small HOB filter which I want to change, my light is the 9" coralife power compact fixture total of 18 watts, 15 watt heater and thats it.
Everything is growing and doing well. I honestly would not add any other kind of fish into this tiny system the clown gobies are perfect size as are the sexy shrimp. If you want it just for a few corals it would be nice.
In mine I have: Ricordeas, green star polyps, zoas, anthelia, 1 yellow clown goby, 2 sexy shrimp, 1 pom pom crab, 1 cleaner shrimp, 2 snails, 1 crab. For filteration I have a very small HOB filter which I want to change, my light is the 9" coralife power compact fixture total of 18 watts, 15 watt heater and thats it.
Everything is growing and doing well. I honestly would not add any other kind of fish into this tiny system the clown gobies are perfect size as are the sexy shrimp. If you want it just for a few corals it would be nice.
fretfreak13
Active Member
Wow, what kind of TINY light is that that can support an acro? It's stunning. I only have nanos, I think the smaller fish are always prettier IMO. =) Big things come in small packages.
gregzbobo
Member
Originally Posted by Fretfreak13
http:///forum/post/3161434
Wow, what kind of TINY light is that that can support an acro? It's stunning. I only have nanos, I think the smaller fish are always prettier IMO. =) Big things come in small packages.
Current-USA 12" Satellite retrofitted with 10 high-power LEDs. I plan to do the same with my JBJ Pico and current-usa fixture. BTW, he started keeping hardier SPS (that huge Monti and the birdsnest IIRC) with the Dual 12" Satellite and had very good success, the LEDs blow it outta the water though so to speak.
Edit: I say huge Monti, in reality its about the size of a large mans hand, but in that tiny tank its enormous.
http:///forum/post/3161434
Wow, what kind of TINY light is that that can support an acro? It's stunning. I only have nanos, I think the smaller fish are always prettier IMO. =) Big things come in small packages.
Current-USA 12" Satellite retrofitted with 10 high-power LEDs. I plan to do the same with my JBJ Pico and current-usa fixture. BTW, he started keeping hardier SPS (that huge Monti and the birdsnest IIRC) with the Dual 12" Satellite and had very good success, the LEDs blow it outta the water though so to speak.
Edit: I say huge Monti, in reality its about the size of a large mans hand, but in that tiny tank its enormous.
new2salt1
Member
Sorry, but unless that pico is attached to another system or at least a 5 gallon fuge, there is no way it could be sustained without frequent breakdowns (every 3 months if lucky). Not to mention he would be scrubbing the walls every day, cleaning the gravel every day, and changing the water multiple times every week. Using regular pc's my 3 gallon pico was maintained impeccably w/ no fish and photo-only coral and it STILL required a breakdown every 4-5 months. When I say breakdown I mean the removal of everything, a thorough algae/detritus scrub, and then everything gets put back with a 50% water change.
Considering this tank is stuffed with coral (including many that require direct feeding), a damsel fish, and is probably running on some kind of heat-producing mh light or
10+ watt per gallon pcs (with no chiller), and it is only netting MAYBE one gallon of water, there is NO WAY the algae growth wouldn't get out of hand VERY quickly. In fact, I bet if you ask this guy, he would probably tell you the tank would look horrible if left unmaintained for 3-4 days.
To answer the OP's question, yes, you can keep a 3-gallon long term as long as you know you will need to maintain it almost daily and you will want to break it down at least every 6 months. If you are going to be feeding a fish in 3 gallons, prepare to break down every 3 months. But sure, you could keep a tank that small for a very long time. I would STRONGLY recommend against it if it's your first experience with saltwater.
I kept my 3 gallon for a year and then upgraded to this 5 gallon. The 5 gallon was much more user friendly:
PS - the coral on the bottom left is the same hairy mushroom directly UNDER the clown in the pic on the right. The shot on the left is how the mushroom folded itself up to eat mysis. The clown was very very curious. I believe this was the first time his hosting coral responded to a direct feeding by curling up. Cool stuff!
Considering this tank is stuffed with coral (including many that require direct feeding), a damsel fish, and is probably running on some kind of heat-producing mh light or
10+ watt per gallon pcs (with no chiller), and it is only netting MAYBE one gallon of water, there is NO WAY the algae growth wouldn't get out of hand VERY quickly. In fact, I bet if you ask this guy, he would probably tell you the tank would look horrible if left unmaintained for 3-4 days.
To answer the OP's question, yes, you can keep a 3-gallon long term as long as you know you will need to maintain it almost daily and you will want to break it down at least every 6 months. If you are going to be feeding a fish in 3 gallons, prepare to break down every 3 months. But sure, you could keep a tank that small for a very long time. I would STRONGLY recommend against it if it's your first experience with saltwater.
I kept my 3 gallon for a year and then upgraded to this 5 gallon. The 5 gallon was much more user friendly:
PS - the coral on the bottom left is the same hairy mushroom directly UNDER the clown in the pic on the right. The shot on the left is how the mushroom folded itself up to eat mysis. The clown was very very curious. I believe this was the first time his hosting coral responded to a direct feeding by curling up. Cool stuff!
gregzbobo
Member
Originally Posted by New2Salt1
http:///forum/post/3172893
Sorry, but unless that pico is attached to another system or at least a 5 gallon fuge, there is no way it could be sustained without frequent breakdowns (every 3 months if lucky). Not to mention he would be scrubbing the walls every day, cleaning the gravel every day, and changing the water multiple times every week. Using regular pc's my 3 gallon pico was maintained impeccably w/ no fish and photo-only coral and it STILL required a breakdown every 4-5 months. When I say breakdown I mean the removal of everything, a thorough algae/detritus scrub, and then everything gets put back with a 50% water change.
Considering this tank is stuffed with coral (including many that require direct feeding), a damsel fish, and is probably running on some kind of heat-producing mh light or
10+ watt per gallon pcs (with no chiller), and it is only netting MAYBE one gallon of water, there is NO WAY the algae growth wouldn't get out of hand VERY quickly. In fact, I bet if you ask this guy, he would probably tell you the tank would look horrible if left unmaintained for 3-4 days.
To answer the OP's question, yes, you can keep a 3-gallon long term as long as you know you will need to maintain it almost daily and you will want to break it down at least every 6 months. If you are going to be feeding a fish in 3 gallons, prepare to break down every 3 months. But sure, you could keep a tank that small for a very long time. I would STRONGLY recommend against it if it's your first experience with saltwater.
I kept my 3 gallon for a year and then upgraded to this 5 gallon. The 5 gallon was much more user friendly:
PS - the coral on the bottom left is the same hairy mushroom directly UNDER the clown in the pic on the right. The shot on the left is how the mushroom folded itself up to eat mysis. The clown was very very curious. I believe this was the first time his hosting coral responded to a direct feeding by curling up. Cool stuff!
I forgot to mention in my previous post that he has an AC70 fuge. And if you read my post at all, you'd know he has LEDs over the tank.
http:///forum/post/3172893
Sorry, but unless that pico is attached to another system or at least a 5 gallon fuge, there is no way it could be sustained without frequent breakdowns (every 3 months if lucky). Not to mention he would be scrubbing the walls every day, cleaning the gravel every day, and changing the water multiple times every week. Using regular pc's my 3 gallon pico was maintained impeccably w/ no fish and photo-only coral and it STILL required a breakdown every 4-5 months. When I say breakdown I mean the removal of everything, a thorough algae/detritus scrub, and then everything gets put back with a 50% water change.
Considering this tank is stuffed with coral (including many that require direct feeding), a damsel fish, and is probably running on some kind of heat-producing mh light or
10+ watt per gallon pcs (with no chiller), and it is only netting MAYBE one gallon of water, there is NO WAY the algae growth wouldn't get out of hand VERY quickly. In fact, I bet if you ask this guy, he would probably tell you the tank would look horrible if left unmaintained for 3-4 days.
To answer the OP's question, yes, you can keep a 3-gallon long term as long as you know you will need to maintain it almost daily and you will want to break it down at least every 6 months. If you are going to be feeding a fish in 3 gallons, prepare to break down every 3 months. But sure, you could keep a tank that small for a very long time. I would STRONGLY recommend against it if it's your first experience with saltwater.
I kept my 3 gallon for a year and then upgraded to this 5 gallon. The 5 gallon was much more user friendly:
PS - the coral on the bottom left is the same hairy mushroom directly UNDER the clown in the pic on the right. The shot on the left is how the mushroom folded itself up to eat mysis. The clown was very very curious. I believe this was the first time his hosting coral responded to a direct feeding by curling up. Cool stuff!
I forgot to mention in my previous post that he has an AC70 fuge. And if you read my post at all, you'd know he has LEDs over the tank.
fishtaco
Active Member
Nice to see this thread finally got some action. Not a newbie anymore to salt, but don't really understand about breaking down the tank every few months or having to scrub for algae every day? How are these tanks any different really than my 15 gallon nano tanks as except for far less volume which of course means far less livestock which is why I would have only zoas, maybe a cleaner shrimp and a couple smaller snails for livestock. Figuring on adding a second small HOB that would be living rock rubble and also add a little more water volume, then just the same maintenance as the nanos, scrub for algae, 20 percent water change and rinse out of the foam filter medium I keep in one chamber. Never planned on putting fish in it and thought it would be just the thing for raising up those little colonies of 2-3 really nicely colored zoas or fragging some in my existing tanks that are getting overran by faster growing zenia, mushrooms and kenya trees. Also a 5 gallon is not out of the question, but have not located what I would like for lighting which would be a clip-on 18w 50/50 set-up, do these even exist?
Fishtaco
Fishtaco
gregzbobo
Member
Dunno about a clip-on, but you can still find the Current USA 12" Satellite 1x18w fixture here and there. I think JBJ makes a clip-on light for 'fuges, but its got a daylight bulb, I am not sure if it could be changed out for a 50/50 bulb or not. If so I don't see why it wouldn't work.
Coralife also makes a 2x18w 12" fixture, on the other forum site I frequent its met with mixed reviews, IE bulb quality is sub-par, runs hot, less versatile mounting options, both bulbs run off one power cord so no staged light cycle, and no built-in moonlight. It IS just 60ish bucks though, and still commonly available, plus can be modified to take the Current USA square pin bulbs which seem to be of better quality. And I would imagine with a little ingenuity a person could add a 2nd ballast and power-cord to gain the ability to stage the lighting.
I personally would avoid placing LR rubble in the fuge, except for maybe one or two pieces with space between to allow waterflow, LR rubble can collect detritus. If possible, place chaeto in the HOB with a reverse-cycle light over it.
PM me your email and I'll link you to a forum site that has a dedicated pico section if you're interested.
Coralife also makes a 2x18w 12" fixture, on the other forum site I frequent its met with mixed reviews, IE bulb quality is sub-par, runs hot, less versatile mounting options, both bulbs run off one power cord so no staged light cycle, and no built-in moonlight. It IS just 60ish bucks though, and still commonly available, plus can be modified to take the Current USA square pin bulbs which seem to be of better quality. And I would imagine with a little ingenuity a person could add a 2nd ballast and power-cord to gain the ability to stage the lighting.
I personally would avoid placing LR rubble in the fuge, except for maybe one or two pieces with space between to allow waterflow, LR rubble can collect detritus. If possible, place chaeto in the HOB with a reverse-cycle light over it.
PM me your email and I'll link you to a forum site that has a dedicated pico section if you're interested.
new2salt1
Member
Originally Posted by Fishtaco
http:///forum/post/3174144
Nice to see this thread finally got some action. Not a newbie anymore to salt, but don't really understand about breaking down the tank every few months or having to scrub for algae every day? How are these tanks any different really than my 15 gallon
Fishtaco
To the extent that you don't know how vastly different a 3 gallon tank is from a 14 gallon tank, you are indeed a newbie.
I took the liberty to go to the guy's website whose tank is pictured here.
Please, before you continue to question what I wrote, go read the actual guy's maintenance logs! He talks of constant and tedious daily maintenance and multiple water changes per week. That's MULTIPLE wc's per week. He also decribes how he has to clean the walls and sand daily.
Like I said, if you believe a 14 gallon and 3 gallon is the same, you still have a lot to learn. I have tank diaries for a 3 gallon and a 14 gallon on this very website. Between my own experiences with my tanks and the explanations by this tank owner, hopefully you start to accept the fact that a 3 gallon is not going to run just like your 14 gallon. Likewise, a 100 gallon is going to be 7x more self sufficient than a 14 gallon.
Here's a simple example:
If water evaporates at 6 ounces per day, how will that affect the sg of a 100 gallon tank? How about a 14 gallon? and now how about a 3 gallon tank that has a net volume of 1 gallon?
This same math applies to everything in the tank. If a 2" clown produces a gram of waste per day, how will that affect the ammonia in a 100 gallon tank vs 1 gallon?
And how much quicker will the beneficial bacteria in 100 pounds of live rock absorb that gram of waste compared to the beneficial bacteria in 3 pounds of rock?
Get the point?
http:///forum/post/3174144
Nice to see this thread finally got some action. Not a newbie anymore to salt, but don't really understand about breaking down the tank every few months or having to scrub for algae every day? How are these tanks any different really than my 15 gallon
Fishtaco
To the extent that you don't know how vastly different a 3 gallon tank is from a 14 gallon tank, you are indeed a newbie.
I took the liberty to go to the guy's website whose tank is pictured here.
Please, before you continue to question what I wrote, go read the actual guy's maintenance logs! He talks of constant and tedious daily maintenance and multiple water changes per week. That's MULTIPLE wc's per week. He also decribes how he has to clean the walls and sand daily.
Like I said, if you believe a 14 gallon and 3 gallon is the same, you still have a lot to learn. I have tank diaries for a 3 gallon and a 14 gallon on this very website. Between my own experiences with my tanks and the explanations by this tank owner, hopefully you start to accept the fact that a 3 gallon is not going to run just like your 14 gallon. Likewise, a 100 gallon is going to be 7x more self sufficient than a 14 gallon.
Here's a simple example:
If water evaporates at 6 ounces per day, how will that affect the sg of a 100 gallon tank? How about a 14 gallon? and now how about a 3 gallon tank that has a net volume of 1 gallon?
This same math applies to everything in the tank. If a 2" clown produces a gram of waste per day, how will that affect the ammonia in a 100 gallon tank vs 1 gallon?
And how much quicker will the beneficial bacteria in 100 pounds of live rock absorb that gram of waste compared to the beneficial bacteria in 3 pounds of rock?
Get the point?
fishtaco
Active Member
I get the point you are making, but I never planned on putting a fish in a 3 or 5 gallon, just some zoa's and a very small cuc, figuring just barely covering the bottom with crushed coral, 3lbs living rock and using a second larger back filter that can house the heater and add to the water volume also. The tank pictured while nice, obviously has way too much in it. I do see your point though. Thinking maybe 2 of those tanks put back to back might also be interesting since one could act as a fuge and the other could be the DT.
Fishtaco.
Fishtaco.
mason
Member
I have been lurking and reading and I wanted to chime in about the requirement to break down pico tanks regularly, that is not the only way. Im not saying that isn't a practice worth considering for many pico owners, it can help to reduce OTS and help your pico live longer especially if you have stocked with fish, but to make it a blanket statement for all small picos reflects limited experimentation with actual picos. I am not trying to hijack this thread, but I have a one gallon that hasn't been taken down in four years whatsoever, and my vid shows the necessary details this is just an example of how you can build a tank that does not ever have to be torn down. I am only writing this because if someone tells you something categorically can't be done, and you believe it, then nothing new progresses in the hobby. If you research responsibly you will find a way to do exactly what you want.
I didn't see miss debbie claim she had to break hers down over this first year or did I miss something?
Im not trying to flame so I will be specific.
I do weekly water changes in my tank, sometimes twice weekly. This is not cheating the longevity of the tank because I rate my tank maintenance in terms of minutes, and I spend less time per week on my picos than anyone does on their large tank, plus I don't have to topoff that removes comparative work as well. One can easily set up a 2.5 g with the internal refugium like I did and get the same effect. The mini scraper removes diatoms, so you don't have to tear it all down as posted, and a coathanger does all the rest for scraping coralline down low.
Detritus removal is the #1 thing that determines your tank's longevity. If you leave little pockets of it during service time, or if your tank is so packed you can't get to it is, then the frequent tear downs are helpful. If you can get it all, they are not required at all. Keeping fish really challenges the tank but is very possible as was posted earlier. For me, I just stock crabs and shrimp which are low bioload along with corals, and yes the live rock alone is enough to remove however many grams of waste are produced because again the video shows the detail of the tanks age.
The specifics of your feeding also matters as you get into multiple-years established picos. If you feed pelleted foods, the doughs and fillers used in them will be transported to your sandbed as little brown pockets of gunk over time, depending on your fauna but in the average pico this is a chief contributor to OTS. If you feed only cyclopeeze or frozen mysis, these natural feeds break down cleanly, before being transported into the sandbed, and you get a lot less nutrient sinking which again would require frequent breakdwn were it not for alternate planning. It is highly possible to keep very long term picos that are not plumbed so don't lose hope just get a lot of opinions, and take the ones with pics and videos very seriously lol
b429
I didn't see miss debbie claim she had to break hers down over this first year or did I miss something?
Im not trying to flame so I will be specific.
I do weekly water changes in my tank, sometimes twice weekly. This is not cheating the longevity of the tank because I rate my tank maintenance in terms of minutes, and I spend less time per week on my picos than anyone does on their large tank, plus I don't have to topoff that removes comparative work as well. One can easily set up a 2.5 g with the internal refugium like I did and get the same effect. The mini scraper removes diatoms, so you don't have to tear it all down as posted, and a coathanger does all the rest for scraping coralline down low.
Detritus removal is the #1 thing that determines your tank's longevity. If you leave little pockets of it during service time, or if your tank is so packed you can't get to it is, then the frequent tear downs are helpful. If you can get it all, they are not required at all. Keeping fish really challenges the tank but is very possible as was posted earlier. For me, I just stock crabs and shrimp which are low bioload along with corals, and yes the live rock alone is enough to remove however many grams of waste are produced because again the video shows the detail of the tanks age.
The specifics of your feeding also matters as you get into multiple-years established picos. If you feed pelleted foods, the doughs and fillers used in them will be transported to your sandbed as little brown pockets of gunk over time, depending on your fauna but in the average pico this is a chief contributor to OTS. If you feed only cyclopeeze or frozen mysis, these natural feeds break down cleanly, before being transported into the sandbed, and you get a lot less nutrient sinking which again would require frequent breakdwn were it not for alternate planning. It is highly possible to keep very long term picos that are not plumbed so don't lose hope just get a lot of opinions, and take the ones with pics and videos very seriously lol
b429
cranberry
Active Member
I've had a 3 gallon pico set up since forever. The critters change in it because I now use it for a grow out tank, but the rock and sand etc has never been removed and I've never broken it down.
Am I saying it's easy? No. It's definately more work in some regards. Yes, I do very frequent water changes, but I scoop a cup out and replace it... takes 2 seconds. But if one is willing to put the work and attention into a small tank, it can be done. I used a "Sea Money" squeegie (sp?) to clean the glass.... those things are awesome.
One of my favourite times is when it was a zoa tank with sundial snails... after a year I ran out of zoas O.O
Am I saying it's easy? No. It's definately more work in some regards. Yes, I do very frequent water changes, but I scoop a cup out and replace it... takes 2 seconds. But if one is willing to put the work and attention into a small tank, it can be done. I used a "Sea Money" squeegie (sp?) to clean the glass.... those things are awesome.
One of my favourite times is when it was a zoa tank with sundial snails... after a year I ran out of zoas O.O
cranberry
Active Member
I have nassarius in my pico and well as a few other snails. You also don't need a powerhead because there's a HOB filter that creates enough flow.
Not trying to encourage anyone to get one, because they are difficult to keep... but the sand bed and flow and "need to change them out every year" is not the reason.
It's small volume = greater instability and there is much less room for error. These are indeed "keepable" but I think it should be done by a more experienced keeper who already knows their way around tanks.
Some examples of a tiny CUC
Mini ceriths and nassarius
Planaxis
There's no dime in this pic, but it's the same size as the rest.... a little smaller.
I have a few other small snails I need to get pics of.... but there's lots of options.
Who's responsible for the side scroll business.... is that you Spanko!
Not trying to encourage anyone to get one, because they are difficult to keep... but the sand bed and flow and "need to change them out every year" is not the reason.
It's small volume = greater instability and there is much less room for error. These are indeed "keepable" but I think it should be done by a more experienced keeper who already knows their way around tanks.
Some examples of a tiny CUC
Mini ceriths and nassarius
Planaxis
There's no dime in this pic, but it's the same size as the rest.... a little smaller.
I have a few other small snails I need to get pics of.... but there's lots of options.
Who's responsible for the side scroll business.... is that you Spanko!
mason
Member
thats cool you posted those pics I would gladly take those for my tank!
I was amazed at how much work snails can actually do that you can measure. Before introducing just two cerith snails to my tank, I had tiny spots of micro algae round spots that aged reefs get. Only two snails in about a month have cleaned the entire inner surface, no diatoms or algae I am so blown away by snails' impact on the ecosystem
I was amazed at how much work snails can actually do that you can measure. Before introducing just two cerith snails to my tank, I had tiny spots of micro algae round spots that aged reefs get. Only two snails in about a month have cleaned the entire inner surface, no diatoms or algae I am so blown away by snails' impact on the ecosystem
new2salt1
Member
I have a hard time believing a one gallon was ever kept for 4 years without being broken down if the person is keeping a well-stocked reef. Of course, this assumes the person genuinely cares about the appearance of the tank. Cleaning everyday only does so much. I am a bit of a perfectionist with my tanks so maybe you have different standards, I dunno.
And when I said a 3 gallon will have to be broken down every 6 months it was said in the context of the tank pictured above with the blue damsel. The OP asked if it can be kept long term, and when they posted the pics of that tank, I felt something needed to be said about what is required to make a pico last a long time. When you consider the watts per gallon, the non-photo corals, the net volume of water, the fishetc, people should be told the full story. Obviously a 3 gallon with 9 watts, 2 pounds of LR, and 2 hermits could go forever without a breakdown. But I thought we were having a realistic conversation about the ACTUAL reefs people here keep!
And when I said a 3 gallon will have to be broken down every 6 months it was said in the context of the tank pictured above with the blue damsel. The OP asked if it can be kept long term, and when they posted the pics of that tank, I felt something needed to be said about what is required to make a pico last a long time. When you consider the watts per gallon, the non-photo corals, the net volume of water, the fishetc, people should be told the full story. Obviously a 3 gallon with 9 watts, 2 pounds of LR, and 2 hermits could go forever without a breakdown. But I thought we were having a realistic conversation about the ACTUAL reefs people here keep!
socalnano24
Active Member
I just set up a 5.5 gallon tank with about 20 watts of PC lighting and a HOB filter.
It should be fun setting up; I am going to use some of the advice from this thread. Hopefuly won't have to break it down completley as for a 3 gallon would.
It should be fun setting up; I am going to use some of the advice from this thread. Hopefuly won't have to break it down completley as for a 3 gallon would.
cranberry
Active Member
As I shared, my pico reef was never torn down. It had coral and a fish in it for 2 years before I went a different direction, so I don't buy into the "tear it down" idea. So, based on personal experience, if you maintain it properly and give it it's due diligence, you shouldn't have a problem.
mason
Member
even the small ones don't have to be taken down. these are not stocked with fish, therefore the feed input is less, therefore the nutrient sinking is less and these can live a very long time if set up carefully. I recommend something larger for starters, these are just prime examples of what aged pico reefs can do as stand alone systems. most people get bored of fishless systems so the three gallon+ ones are usually preferable. This amount of coralline cannot be had in a tank less than two years old...
