30 Gallon Refugium

[zeroc0o0l]

OK sorry for the crapy drawing my cam is broke. Just wanted to make sure this looks OK
Questions
Im going to overflow drain onto live rock. Should this LR be underwater or above so water can trickle down it?
Is the pump in the middle too OK. I would put it at the end of the system and have the fuge in the center but I think there would be to much flow.

 

[scopus tang]

JMO, but I would switch your return pump to the end and put the fuge between it and the skimmer. If not, you may get microbubbles from your skimmer in the DT. Also flow through the fuge shouldn't be an issue, you want plenty of flow to prevent the accumulation of debris and the help prevent the growth of microalgaes.

 

[zeroc0o0l]

I thought of that but I was reading that the amount of flow in the fuge should be almost nothing? I saw this design from someone else on here but if you think fuge in the center is better im open to that

 

[zeroc0o0l]

Baffles how far apart should they be? The over flow in the tank has 2 pipes. Should I use both as overflows or one as return?

 

[sk8shorty01]

Your baffles should be one inch apart, and one inch off the bottom (to those that it pertains to). Also, you are correct, your flow should be limited in the refuge to roughly 5 times the total volume of the tank. That means a 30 gallon tank should have about 150 gph running through it, anything more would create a sandstorm and a mess. Also, your chaeto should be at a slow tumble, not in a wirlpool so slow is good. I personally like your design although I would change a few things. How about this...
P.S. I did not include all of the baffles for bubble traps as this was just a quick drawing for someone that was using 2 seperate tanks, but if you just pretend its a drawing of one longer tank, and put baffles in to seperate the fuge on the left then you would not need that extra pump. Good luck!

 

[scopus tang]

Originally Posted by sk8shorty01
http:///forum/post/2523409
Your baffles should be one inch apart, and one inch off the bottom (to those that it pertains to). Also, you are correct, your flow should be limited in the refuge to roughly 5 times the total volume of the tank. That means a 30 gallon tank should have about 150 gph running through it, anything more would create a sandstorm and a mess. Also, your chaeto should be at a slow tumble, not in a wirlpool so slow is good. I personally like your design although I would change a few things. How about this...
P.S. I did not include all of the baffles for bubble traps as this was just a quick drawing for someone that was using 2 seperate tanks, but if you just pretend its a drawing of one longer tank, and put baffles in to seperate the fuge on the left then you would not need that extra pump. Good luck!
sk8shorty01 have to disagree with you on this. I'm no sump expert by any means, and could very well be calculating things incorrectly, so feel free to correct me if I am. I'm running a Quiet One 4000 high head (900 gph ~ I believe thats about a 60X flowthrough rate

), on a 65 gallon DT with a 20 gallon sump (holds about 15 gallons of water). Its a flow through system, end to end with the fuge in the middle (complete with very fine substrate). There is no sandstorm, nor whirlpool with the Chaeto in the fuge. Also, I personally would place the baffles only a 1/4" to 1/2" apart at the most, and no more than 1/4" to 1/2" off the bottom, because otherwise if you try to keep inverts in the fuge, they will be able to crawl through the baffles and get into your return pump. JMO

 

[sk8shorty01]

Here is a great thread that will help you design your sump/refugium from start to finish... It should at least give you some ideas.
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/296515/help-me-make-a-sump
I will look for those flow numbers here in a second Scopus...

 

[scopus tang]

Originally Posted by sk8shorty01 http:///forum/post/2523616
Here is a great thread that will help you design your sump/refugium from start to finish... It should at least give you some ideas.
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/296515/help-me-make-a-sump
I will look for those flow numbers here in a second Scopus...
ZeroC0o0l, sk8shorty01 is correct, this is an excellent thread. Also if you PM Doc, he will answer any questions and walk you through the design as well. I personally found him to be very helpful.

 

[sk8shorty01]

After going through all the threads on this site that I could find that pertained to flow rate, I have come to determine that my flow rate numbers were slightly off. The rate of flow through the refuge should be 10-20 gph, but the lower the better, as the refuge should work more like a tidepool with little water movement so that the environment stays peaceful haha.

 

[sk8shorty01]

And as far as the baffles go, in my opinion the closer they are together, the more pressure that you will have pushing through those channels. This might not be a problem, but it might cause your water flow to be strong enough to push the bubbles down and through the bubble trap, thus defeating the purpose of the trap to begin with. My baffles are one inch apart, and one inch from the bottom and I have filter floss on each end of the baffles that touch the refugium (keeps the critters in there) so you could always do this. I am not saying that your design with the baffles closer together would not work, I am just saying that I believe one inch is the accepted number, as this is what I was told originally and it worked for me, but that doesn't mean that other numbers won't work. I did have a problem with my cleaners getting through the bubble traps so I came up with the filter floss idea on each side. You could also use screen or even possibly egg crating on each side, both should also accomplish the same goal. Do you have a refuge with the baffles at 1/4 running? I am really interested on if that would affect the performance or not, so now I am going to have to research some more haha... So much for taking it easy this afternoon!!!! LOL

 

[scopus tang]

Originally Posted by sk8shorty01
http:///forum/post/2523670
And as far as the baffles go, in my opinion the closer they are together, the more pressure that you will have pushing through those channels. This might not be a problem, but it might cause your water flow to be strong enough to push the bubbles down and through the bubble trap, thus defeating the purpose of the trap to begin with. My baffles are one inch apart, and one inch from the bottom and I have filter floss on each end of the baffles that touch the refugium (keeps the critters in there) so you could always do this. I am not saying that your design with the baffles closer together would not work, I am just saying that I believe one inch is the accepted number, as this is what I was told originally and it worked for me, but that doesn't mean that other numbers won't work. I did have a problem with my cleaners getting through the bubble traps so I came up with the filter floss idea on each side. You could also use screen or even possibly egg crating on each side, both should also accomplish the same goal. Do you have a refuge with the baffles at 1/4 running? I am really interested on if that would affect the performance or not, so now I am going to have to research some more haha... So much for taking it easy this afternoon!!!! LOL
Yeah, my current sump is a three chamber acrylic prefab from ORCA. the baffles are only 1/4 to 1/2 apart. Never had any problems with pressure, but there are only two baffles between the first and second chamber, and the third chamber has only one baffle (water flows over the top). I've had some issues in terms of water volume and evaporation, as well as skimmer placement, so we fabed a replacement out of an old aquarium (Thanks Dennis & Doc). You will be seeing the ORCA in the classified section here soon.

 

[sk8shorty01]

Well that is good to hear that the inch baffles is not a concrete answer. Thanks for letting me know so next time I have more information to go off of when someone else asks how to build a refugium again.
I also made my own refugium from an old aquarium (its a 55 gallon) and I think that is the way to go. Although it does seem a little overwhelming at first, its really not that difficult because you dont have to be perfect. As long as its close it will work, you can't really mess it up, so thats the best part about it! Again thanks...
To the OP: Did we answer all of your questions? Do you have any others that you need help with?

 

[ameno]

I have set my sumps up very sim. to the first sketch, except I split the feed into two inlets. one going to the skimmer area and the other to the fuge, then the sump return goes back to the DT. by doing this you can regulate the amount of flow to each compartment. I try to set the flow in the skimmer at around 1.5x the skimmer pump gph and the flow in the fuge around a 10x turn over rate, I think 10x would be min. and 20x max. I used the lower flow so I could put things in the fuge that want low flow although cheato likes a higher flow rate it seems to do well, I have also added a small PH blowing on the cheato, and it grows like crazy. As far as baffles I put the first one from the skimmer around 1" from the bottom. The next baffle will go from the bottom to whatever height you need the water level in the skimmer compartment. I then put a small baffle that goes from the bottom to around 2" above the pump, this keeps the bubbles out of the pump as it falls from the other baffle creating a waterfall effect. On the fuge side I set 1 baffle close to the height you want the water level to be in the fuge and notch the top of the baffle to help keep things such as snails from flowing over the top. I then use another small baffle the same as on the other side to stop bubbles. I space the baffles 1" apart and make 1 1.5" apart to put things such as charcoal in.
Hope all this is some help.

 

[a6t9p]

i don't like the idea of using a return pump in the fuge to return the water back to the sump if pump fails you could have a big mess on your hands. would recommend drilling a hole on fuge and one alittle lower on the sump and just let it gravity feed back also it iis very hard to match pump out put with a ball valve seems like you always have to adjust it. that way if all you have to worry about is your main pump going out and with the extra water from the dt you could use both fuge and sump to hold water
this is how i would set it up for ease and peace of mind

 

[sk8shorty01]

You could do it that way if you were going to go with two tanks, but I think that one tank is much better because its much more space friendly. Here is one that I drew up specifically for you so that way you dont have to look at that other one and imagine what is going on. Let me know if you like this idea any better... I like your idea, although I tend to lean towards a single tank plan as its just much easier to maintain and less that can go wrong.

 

[sk8shorty01]

Sorry I didnt label anything, The black thing on the far right would be the skimmer, and the black square in the center would be your return pump. This is how my refugium is designed and it works out really well. This way you can control both the flow rates in your refugium and in your sump (protein skimmer area) seperately, but still manage everything under one tank. A single tank design will also make it a lot less difficult when trying to calculate back flow when your pumps shut down because you are only flowing from the display, and not both the display and the refugium (into the sump). Just an idea, you don't have to go with what I did, its just something else to think about and it may or may not suit your needs.

 

[zeroc0o0l]

OK so I did a bunch of work last night (sorry no pics). I have all the baffles cut now. There are 3 for the first buble trap and they one big on for the fuge. Why do the baffle sometimes start high low high or low high low? Is there a correct way to do this?
Also should I try and have a prefilter before the water hits the rock? with a sock or something like that ?

 

[oneradtek]

thats it man!

 

[sk8shorty01]

I have a sock filter on mine but I dont know that its needed. It should go low high low I believe because the baffles are there as a bubble trap so that you dont end up sending bubbles back up into your display through your return pump. The bubbles float up and cannot go below the first one (if you are starting from the right in the picture) so they get trapped, then there are going to be a few bubbles created from the second baffle when the water flows over it so there is another baffle there. This makes sure that you have no bubbles in the return chamber. I would also do something similar on the other side otherwise you will end up with some bubbles getting sent back with your return. That is the only thing I would really change with the design you have above, other than that it looks really good.

 

[zeroc0o0l]

Thanks for all the help
Instead of the baffle on the fuge side im going to try something like this bulkhead with a pipe to the water line of the pump (try to cut down on noise) here is a pic
Will that work? Comments