30g reef 'rebuild'

[heide264]

Hey all,
Used to be around these forums years ago and did a LOT of reading. Most of what I know about the hobby I learned here previous to starting my 30g reef tank. I originally designed the tank to minimize maintenance for when I went to school at PSU. The setup worked for a year or two and my dad was able to care for my tank, but eventually started to fall behind. As it stands, my tank is at the point of either a major do over, or tearing it down for good. After weighing my financial situation, my tanks livestock, and my love for the hobby, I have made it a new years resolution to get my tank back to better than it was originally (as well as lose the 30lbs of beer I put on). I plan on using this thread to report the entire process, and also get your feedback. I have not been on these forums much since I went to school, so please be a bit easy, I am not up to date on recent developments in the hobby.
That being said, some tank background. It is a 30g reef tanks with about 45lbs of live rock in it. I have a 10g tank under it that I have plumbed in as a refugium, currently growing macro algae (as well as several other unintended growths). Light wise, I am using 2x96W retrofit PC lights (1x10k and 1x20k). Fish wise, just a percula clown (might be osc, I forget) and a royal gramma. Coral wise, I have basically a green hammer farm, a good bit of blue candy corals, a decent sized disk of red monti cap, and some scattered red mushrooms. The various algae species within my tank probably deserve a shoutout as well at this point (bubble hair mostly). I do use my own RO/DI filter with clean filters for all water that goes into the tank. I have an AquaC Remora on the back of the tank, and a power filter I am just using for flow at the moment.
I spent the majority of the day just pulling algae out of my tank and swapping/cleaning my lights off. I have some poor quality cell phone pictures of before and after. The tank still looks bad, but it was pretty gross how much algae I pulled off and sucked out with the 5g water change. Tank still obviously has a long way to go, so I am going to divide it up into a few different sections/concerns, and am looking for your suggestions in each one.
Lighting:
The retrofit kit of 2x96W coralreef PCs I have is about dead. The ballast is fine I'm pretty sure, but the endcaps are warped and cracked, and I don't even deem them safe. The bulbs are old and need replaced as well. Point being, I am looking for suggestions. I need to remake the canopy of my stand anyhow to remount them. If I can still use my light ballast and buy new endcaps, I could do that as well. My corals have never had an issue with not getting enough light, but something is making algae grow like no other. The lights are a prime suspect.
Sump/Refugium:
My sump tank is bad. I have a feeling it is doing more harm than good now. I plan on ordering a saw blade for acrylic and designing a new one that is larger than 10g. I do not have any experience working with acrylic, but do not mind learning. I will be thinking of some plans and post them up sometime soon.
General Tank Concerns:
I am very concerned my rock is saturated. The tank has been set up for about 8 years now give or take one, and I have always had minor hair algae issues. The problem has only gotten worse, and I am worried it is due to poor live rock. I do not really want to buy new live rock due to the money, but will if needed as a last resort after fixing the lighting and sump. If it comes to this point, I think I will move my corals and livestock to a temporary tank, make a brand new tank out of acrylic with some holes for better flow in the bottom and back, and start fresh. This would also allow me to make the tank a bit taller, and allow for more water movement without dealing with hard to maintain power heads.
I've learned a lot of this hobby is a learning experience. No matter how much preparation you do, there is always issues afterwards. I'm doing this remake so later when I upgrade to a (much) larger tank, I can prevent some of those issues the first time around. Your feedback is greatly appreciated, and I could really use it. Thanks in advance.
Index:
1/1/2011 - https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/forum/thread/382835/30g-reef-rebuild#post_3343760
1/3/2011 - https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/forum/thread/382835/30g-reef-rebuild#post_3344642
1/8/2011 - https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/forum/thread/382835/30g-reef-rebuild#post_3346685

 

[heide264]

1/1/2011
Started my tank makeover:
-Spent a few hours pulling algae out of the display tank and sump.
-Switched my year old 2x96W PC bulbs out for two older ones that only saw a few months of use until I replace my lighting.
-5 gallon water change.
-Water test results: pH was 8.2, Alk was a bit low and I normally keep it a bit high, S.G. was 1.025 as tested with a refractometer. Did not test for nitrogen levels, but they are normally all zeros as well as PO4. Will test for those tomorrow, but am generally concerned my test kits are no longer good. They are a couple years old, but are pretty good test kits. Also will test Ca tomorrow after another water change.
To Dos:
-Order a saw blade to work with acrylic. Do some reading on it as well
-More water changes. Already have the extra water run off, just need to mix in the salt.
-Make up some sump plans and designs.
-Pull more algae out of the bottom half of the display.
...Will post pictures of before and after soon.

 

[btldreef]

Welcome back!
thoughts:
What brand RO/DI are you using?
IMO, if you can move fish and corals to a temporary tank, you could do the following:
Take out the rock, and drain out as much water as you can and really get in there and wipe away as much algae from the glass ass possible. Scrub the rock in a bucket of saltwater so that you don't kill off beneficial bacteria. Refill tank with good, fresh salt water and add in your clean rock. Leave the lights off and do small water changes daily until the hair algae goes away. You could also add algae eaters to help out, you didn't list your CUC, so I'm going to assume that you don't have one.
If you do not want to remove your tank inhabitants, at least move the coral and leave the lights off and do small water changes and increase your CUC.
Consider running a phosphate remover of some sort as well as carbon.
You probably need new test kits, they go bad after one year.
***** is running a $1 per gallon sale right now, you could go and get yourself a nice new tank to use for a sump if you are concerned with your sump setup.
Good luck!

 

[btwk12]

if ***** is having that sale you could have a 55 gal and 30 gal sump for just $55

that way you have a brand new display and you can run your old sump while you clean the 30gal!!! all for $55 and a days work

 

[btwk12]

ok you will need a stand to.

 

[acrylic51]

Plans honestly sound pretty solid, but 1 concern or question is how bad of shape is the rock in? If there is a hair algae issue an it's bad a simple scrubbing and wash really won't cut it....The rock can be "cooked"; meaning in a separate container with fresh saltwater and heater....NO lights and starve the algae that way while doing continual water changes on the rock vat....

 

[acrylic51]

What brand test kits are you using, and how old are they?

 

[heide264]

Wow, thanks for the replies already.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTLDreef http:///forum/thread/382835/30g-reef-rebuild#post_3343777
Welcome back!
thoughts:
What brand RO/DI are you using?
IMO, if you can move fish and corals to a temporary tank, you could do the following:
Take out the rock, and drain out as much water as you can and really get in there and wipe away as much algae from the glass ass possible. Scrub the rock in a bucket of saltwater so that you don't kill off beneficial bacteria. Refill tank with good, fresh salt water and add in your clean rock. Leave the lights off and do small water changes daily until the hair algae goes away. You could also add algae eaters to help out, you didn't list your CUC, so I'm going to assume that you don't have one.
If you do not want to remove your tank inhabitants, at least move the coral and leave the lights off and do small water changes and increase your CUC.
Consider running a phosphate remover of some sort as well as carbon.
You probably need new test kits, they go bad after one year.
***** is running a $1 per gallon sale right now, you could go and get yourself a nice new tank to use for a sump if you are concerned with your sump setup.
Good luck!
I have my own 3 stage RO/DI unit I bought last year. Filters have been used for maybe 30-50 gallons. I'm (nearly, can never be 100% in this hobby) positive the water is not the issue.
I actually used to run a PO4 remover by two fishes a long time ago. I don't think it did any good at all. Even with my forest, I haven't been able to ever read a PO4 due to them being absorbed so quickly by the algae. Trying to avoid buying things to cover up the problem. It's time to actually fix it. Been doing that long enough =P.
Clean up crew wise, I had tons of snails and hermits. They don't do good in my tank as it stands. I don't know why. It's been a long standing issue. I'm almost positive it is salinity/temperature swings due to the relatively small volume of water I have in my system and how much top off water I add per day. I've tried adding it in small doses, but I just lose hermits like it is my job =(. One reason I want to build a much larger sump (and add an auto top off that isn't a milk jug with an air line off of it for kalk dripping).
Looking to make my sump out of acrylic. Have pretty specific plans for it to fit under my display well. Those $1 sales are good deals though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by btwk12 http:///forum/thread/382835/30g-reef-rebuild#post_3343809
if ***** is having that sale you could have a 55 gal and 30 gal sump for just $55

that way you have a brand new display and you can run your old sump while you clean the 30gal!!! all for $55 and a days work
Haha, I'm more so trying to get this one sorted out. If I can't get a 30g set up, I'm just going to make the same mistake on a later tank. And it will be even more cash and time. Just finding I need to learn my lessons as early as possible in the hobby.
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/382835/30g-reef-rebuild#post_3343873
Plans honestly sound pretty solid, but 1 concern or question is how bad of shape is the rock in? If there is a hair algae issue an it's bad a simple scrubbing and wash really won't cut it....The rock can be "cooked"; meaning in a separate container with fresh saltwater and heater....NO lights and starve the algae that way while doing continual water changes on the rock vat....
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/382835/30g-reef-rebuild#post_3343874
What brand test kits are you using, and how old are they?
I remember seeing you around a while ago acrylic. Avatar stuck in my head with the whiskers haha.
Marine Aquariums/Red Sea test kits. Probably over a year. Doubting the reliability, but to be honest at this point, I'm not overly concerned with it. I'm pretty sure my levels are in check due to the overall health and growth of my coral. Needless to say, I will pick up a couple new ones (pH/nitrogen/Ca stuff) when I get around to it. For now, I'm going to be doing weekly if not more frequent 5g water changes. Should bring it up to the right levels regardless. Never been able to read a nitrate or PO4 in the tank for the years I've had it.
The hair algae is bad. Really bad. Always had an issue with it too. Its on the hard part of my corals, rocks, glass, and sand. It's going to be a long hard project to remove it. That is a good idea about the 'baking' tank. I think after a few weeks of pretty hefty water changes, I will switch to that method in small chunks at a time. That would give me a good chance to get any sand out of the bottom of the tank (about 3/4" just for display purposes).

 

[acrylic51]

Thanks!!!! I've been around awhile.....Check the date on the test kits....make sure they aren't expired. How patient are you willing to be and diligent with resetting the tank? I will try to find you the exact thread and it is a sure fire way to rid the rock of the hair algae. Scrubbing the rock will work, but if it isn't rinsed perfectly and just little strands are left behind loose they will float and take off again in the tank. What I'm suggesting with the "cooking" of the rock is an acid bath. Sounds harsh and dangerous, but it's not if the steps are done. It will rid your rock of the unwanteds and open the rock back up.

 

[heide264]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/382835/30g-reef-rebuild#post_3343927
Thanks!!!! I've been around awhile.....Check the date on the test kits....make sure they aren't expired. How patient are you willing to be and diligent with resetting the tank? I will try to find you the exact thread and it is a sure fire way to rid the rock of the hair algae. Scrubbing the rock will work, but if it isn't rinsed perfectly and just little strands are left behind loose they will float and take off again in the tank. What I'm suggesting with the "cooking" of the rock is an acid bath. Sounds harsh and dangerous, but it's not if the steps are done. It will rid your rock of the unwanteds and open the rock back up.
Yeah, I actually lost my original username over the years and started this one a bit back. Haven't looked around much to see if I recognize anybody else. Sharkbait isn't around anymore by chance? I still owe him a piece of my hammer coral, haha.
I am willing to be patient. One thing I've been wanting to do is switch to some PVC risers and lighting grate for some structures. This would allow me to actually build a structure without stacking rock for hours and trying to make it stable as well as let me put a power head under it for some better flow. Also, removing all the rock slowly would allow me to suck out 'infested' sand. I'd also want to secure my corals as I go. I may look into building a bit of base rock and trading some of my live rock as well. I know I need to get on that due to curing time, so I will add it to my list of 'to-dos'.
Pretty excited about this tank makeover. I already started at Westinghouse as an E.E., so can finally support the tank financially instead of skimping on it. Will be a lot of work, but I really think it will be a great learning experience for the future.
Do they still have test 'probes' out for use with controllers? Are they any good? I have been debating programming up a spare Arduino board I have sitting around for use with my tank. Could do some temperature and salinity logging if the probes are any good. Also could do a top off system while I am at it. That is on the back burner though until I get it stabilized a bit.
Busy day and work a 4pm-midnight shift tomorrow, so will do the tank maintenance later tonight. Still have to upload my pictures I took as well.

 

[acrylic51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heide264 http:///forum/thread/382835/30g-reef-rebuild#post_3344118
Yeah, I actually lost my original username over the years and started this one a bit back. Haven't looked around much to see if I recognize anybody else. Sharkbait isn't around anymore by chance? I still owe him a piece of my hammer coral, haha.
I am willing to be patient. One thing I've been wanting to do is switch to some PVC risers and lighting grate for some structures. This would allow me to actually build a structure without stacking rock for hours and trying to make it stable as well as let me put a power head under it for some better flow. Also, removing all the rock slowly would allow me to suck out 'infested' sand. I'd also want to secure my corals as I go. I may look into building a bit of base rock and trading some of my live rock as well. I know I need to get on that due to curing time, so I will add it to my list of 'to-dos'.
Pretty excited about this tank makeover. I already started at Westinghouse as an E.E., so can finally support the tank financially instead of skimping on it. Will be a lot of work, but I really think it will be a great learning experience for the future.
Do they still have test 'probes' out for use with controllers? Are they any good? I have been debating programming up a spare Arduino board I have sitting around for use with my tank. Could do some temperature and salinity logging if the probes are any good. Also could do a top off system while I am at it. That is on the back burner though until I get it stabilized a bit.
Busy day and work a 4pm-midnight shift tomorrow, so will do the tank maintenance later tonight. Still have to upload my pictures I took as well.
Congrats.....on the job, and on getting back into the hobby. There's a lot of guys I haven't seen around, but I see them time to time on other forums....
Another option you might want to look at for building your structures is drilling and pinning with either acrylic rod or fiberglass driveway markers. IMHO a little less intrusive in the tank and easier to hide as well, but both offer some unique advantages if planned out.
I will find the info on "cooking" and acid bath for the rock to get you a clean start. It won't be an overnight job as your already aware of, but it is a sure fire way to clean an open the rock up.
As far as test probes yes they still are around and very good as they were years ago. A lot of advances in the controllers they hook to and you could spend another day looking just into that end of things, but yes you can get standard grade probes or lab grade probes depending what your looking to spend. What type of controllers do you currently have? I see your Ardiuno fan, you'll have to do a thread sometime and bring me up to speed on that end.....Salinity from what I've been following is still a sensitive area, that requires a lot of care with the probes and calibration. Not a 24/7 drop in and forget probe.

 

[heide264]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/382835/30g-reef-rebuild#post_3344204
Congrats.....on the job, and on getting back into the hobby. There's a lot of guys I haven't seen around, but I see them time to time on other forums....
Another option you might want to look at for building your structures is drilling and pinning with either acrylic rod or fiberglass driveway markers. IMHO a little less intrusive in the tank and easier to hide as well, but both offer some unique advantages if planned out.
I will find the info on "cooking" and acid bath for the rock to get you a clean start. It won't be an overnight job as your already aware of, but it is a sure fire way to clean an open the rock up.
As far as test probes yes they still are around and very good as they were years ago. A lot of advances in the controllers they hook to and you could spend another day looking just into that end of things, but yes you can get standard grade probes or lab grade probes depending what your looking to spend. What type of controllers do you currently have? I see your Ardiuno fan, you'll have to do a thread sometime and bring me up to speed on that end.....Salinity from what I've been following is still a sensitive area, that requires a lot of care with the probes and calibration. Not a 24/7 drop in and forget probe.
Will look into it.
I have dealt with a couple PICs and a TI one before. I'm avoiding the TI one due to the goofy development software that I hate dealing with. I'd rather just use an arduino (Atmega controller) board. Relatively cheap development boards that use an open source programming development. Significantly less stress I've found. I will look into them when I get around to it.
Hurt my shoulder tonight. Fell asleep watching an old rerun of northern exposure with the girlfriend. Woke up and now it hurts to move my arm outwards. Sure it'll be fine in the morning, so just going to do the water change and maintenance tomorrow when I get up. Weird.
If you can find the thread I'd appreciate it. If not I can do some reading and looking around.
Thanks again, appreciate the feedback.

 

[heide264]

1/3/2011
-5g water change. Still able to siphon out a lot of junk. Worked at getting a lot of bubble algae out during the water change.
-Busted out a new filter pad for the power filter. Was just going to take it out and use it for flow, but figured it would help catch algae. Washed it out when I did the work on the 1st, and it was almost completely covered in algae already. Figured I should leave one in there until it stops grabbing a lot of algae.
-Water test results: pH was 8.2, Alk was a bit low. Don't trust my results other than the SG of 1.025 on the dot.
-Ordered some goodies:
2x PC square end caps to replace my current warped ones
1x Seachem Marine basic test kit (pH, alk, and nitrogen)
1x Marina Stainless Steel Thermo
1x 96W 10k bulb
1x 96W 20k bulb
To Dos:
-Order a saw blade to work with acrylic. Do some reading on it as well
-More water changes. Already have the extra water run off, just need to mix in the salt.
-Make up some sump plans and designs.
-Pull more algae out of the bottom half of the display.
-Fix canopy light mounting method to prevent water splash onto new lights. Probably will just cover the tank with a glass/acrylic sheet. Heat is a concern at this point. Canopy paint bubbled over time. Would like to avoid fans though... One more place for something to break.

 

[acrylic51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heide264 http:///forum/thread/382835/30g-reef-rebuild#post_3344642
1/3/2011
-5g water change. Still able to siphon out a lot of junk. Worked at getting a lot of bubble algae out during the water change.
-Busted out a new filter pad for the power filter. Was just going to take it out and use it for flow, but figured it would help catch algae. Washed it out when I did the work on the 1st, and it was almost completely covered in algae already. Figured I should leave one in there until it stops grabbing a lot of algae.
-Water test results: pH was 8.2, Alk was a bit low. Don't trust my results other than the SG of 1.025 on the dot.
-Ordered some goodies:
2x PC square end caps to replace my current warped ones
1x Seachem Marine basic test kit (pH, alk, and nitrogen)
1x Marina Stainless Steel Thermo
1x 96W 10k bulb
1x 96W 20k bulb
To Dos:
-Order a saw blade to work with acrylic. Do some reading on it as well
-More water changes. Already have the extra water run off, just need to mix in the salt.
-Make up some sump plans and designs.
-Pull more algae out of the bottom half of the display.
-Fix canopy light mounting method to prevent water splash onto new lights. Probably will just cover the tank with a glass/acrylic sheet. Heat is a concern at this point. Canopy paint bubbled over time. Would like to avoid fans though... One more place for something to break.
Looking good so far......Here is some reading material that might interest you when you have some spare time....
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1587539
As far as blade for acrylic....Freud blades work super....A little pricey, but super nice results....I think if you check out 2quills build thread in the Lighting Equipment section he told he found the blade I had recommended pretty reasonable on Amazon.

 

[heide264]

Looking good so far......Here is some reading material that might interest you when you have some spare time....
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1587539
As far as blade for acrylic....Freud blades work super....A little pricey, but super nice results....I think if you check out 2quills build thread in the Lighting Equipment section he told he found the blade I had recommended pretty reasonable on Amazon.
Will probably pick up one of those if they got good reviews. Little bit of cash for quality is a trade I'm willing to happily make.
I am reading over that thread as I get time. I am thinking the acid bath might be the way to go. That would eliminate my fear of the rocks being saturated I guess.

 

[heide264]

1/8/2011:
-8g water change. Big one. Got carried away with the siphon. Oops.
-Got my goodies in. Happy with everything but my SeaChem test kits. Maybe I am dumb. Or colorblind. But these things are near impossible to get a decent reading off of. My Red Sea ones were a piece of cake. I don't know whether these are supposed to be accurate, but with only using one drop of reagent and a really bad 'pipette', I doubt I am getting accurate readings on any test other than nitrite/nitrate with these. I will order a new pH/Alk test when I order a calcium one before I attempt to start my kalk drip back up. It seemed before the water change my pH was really low (7.8) and afterwards it was quite high (8.4?). I blame the test kits. Alk seemed to hold pretty constant actually. My tank historically has used up carbonate like a machine, but pH has held constant.
-Called around for piece of glass to cover the top of my tank. Apparently glass stores aren't open on Saturdays. Boo.
-Realized the bleach/acid dipping routine will be necessary. I first want to get my light part of the project out of the way.
-Read about working with acrylic. I do not plan on cutting my own pieces any longer. Looks to be about $100 worth of acrylic all said and done for the good quality 1/4" stuff. I am going above and beyond with it for experience in the future.
New 'Priority List':
1.) Continue to do regular water changes at least twice a week to remove excess algae and nutrients.
2.) Get a glass sheet cut to put over my tank. My lights get too much salt on them from the water. I will have this cut 35.5"x9" to rest on the hood 'shelves' around the tank.
3.) Install my new end caps. They are not quite what my old ones were. They seem to be ceramic instead of sort of 'rubber slip over' ones. I think I will need to bolt these into my hood. I need to figure out how to wire them safely to prevent any salt creep + electric issues as well. They seem solid and high quality, I just have to figure out how to use them properly. This in combination with my new bulbs that came in will complete my lighting issue.
4.) Order acrylic and build my new sump. I plan on not using any sand in it. I want to have a large refugium that I can just drop a power head in and keep a lot of flow over macro algae. I think I will put a piece of plastic grating and some live rock in there for the macro algae to grow on. I have issues dealing with flow and sand - so I'm going to just avoid it.
5.) I want to look into running an external pump. I am tired of dealing with power heads not intended as use for return pumps. They die and are hard to maintain. I need some suggestions on this. Noise is an issue. The tank is 3 feet from my bed and my protein skimmer is loud enough.
6.) Bleach/Acid bath for the rock work. I will do this in 2-3 'batches'. This will allow me to remove the possibly infected sand under the rock while I am doing it, as well as let me add some form of structure be it pvc pipe and eggcrate or fiberglass tie rods or whatever.
Thoughts? Suggestions? Always appreciate them.

 

[gemmy]

I would not put a glass top on the tank. It can inhibit the ability for a proper gas exchange to take place.

 

[acrylic51]

I agree don't cover the tank.....If your getting excessive salt spray/creep I would look at what's causing the issue and correct it.....If your getting excessive spray/creep, by putting glass or acrylic over top the tank you'll have the material caked with salt creep and your lighting will be cut way down creating an issue, and then you could also have issues with heat as well. Strongly advise against that idea.

 

[heide264]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemmy http:///forum/thread/382835/30g-reef-rebuild#post_3346702
I would not put a glass top on the tank. It can inhibit the ability for a proper gas exchange to take place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/382835/30g-reef-rebuild#post_3346772
I agree don't cover the tank.....If your getting excessive salt spray/creep I would look at what's causing the issue and correct it.....If your getting excessive spray/creep, by putting glass or acrylic over top the tank you'll have the material caked with salt creep and your lighting will be cut way down creating an issue, and then you could also have issues with heat as well. Strongly advise against that idea.
Sounds good. Won't waste the cash then. I know the cause; it is the power filter and my hang on back skimmer (AquaC Remora). I don't mind swapping the power filter for a powerhead, minus the fact powerheads and me have a bad history. I don't know if I can hang the skimmer on the sump or put it in the sump itself, but I don't know that the skimmer is putting out any bubbles actually. Will investigate.

 

[acrylic51]

Just getting a chance to reread what you had posted......You had mentioned about your skimmer....I'd try to remove all equipment if possible from the DT. I remember that you said your planning on doing a sump at some point during the rebuild....

During your researching and upgrading process I'd seriously look at replacing the AquaC skimmer....IMHO you'd get more skimming preformance running a ASM mini on the tank.....I'd put money on the ASM over the AquaC.......