5' 120g reef or FOWLR setup... lots of questions

[cracker darrell]

let me start by saying i have been keeping fish for many, many years. currently i keep and breed a lot of large lake malawi haps. when you're as serious as i am in the hobby of fish keeping (more like obsessed), sooner or later you want to move on up to salt. while i know freshwater fish backwards and forwards, i am just learning the basics when it comes to saltwater, and i've been intimidated to try, but i don't think i can resist the urge any longer. after all, every expert was a beginner first.
i have quite a few friends who have been giving me advice/encouragement and done a lot of reading on my own. i am getting some conflicting advice though. i have a 60x24x18 120g. this tank is almost brand new, looks flawless, and is in my main room (very large open area where it can be enjoyed daily). i also have a 72x21x18 125g but it is not as nice/new and is in a back office where it will not be viewed nearly at all. also the 120 has LED lighting while i only have flourescent on the 125, so the 120g needs to be my salt tank.
the main problem this poses is that i have no room to work with for a sump on my 120g, nor does the tank have overflows. the stand has cabinets but is not open underneath or from the back for easy access, and it has glass shelves. the 125 would be better as it is a large open cabinet (it's the aqueon pine majesty stand you see on most tanks), but again, it's not where i'd want a salt tank set up. switching them is not an option.
i have about 50lbs of established live rock and also about 50lbs of live sand. the rest i planned to add reef sand and place rock as i go. i understand i need the rock to build up and provide the biological filtration. for circulation i have two large power heads. my main snag stopping me from doing this right now is i have about a half dozen HOB filters laying around like aquaclear110, aqueon 90, etc. but i've been told these are basically useless for salt tanks. i considered canister (my friends have a couple laying around) but was told these are bad as they become nitrate factories. what are my options for mechanical filtration on this tank?
2nd question, i do not have an RODI system. how absolutely necessary is this versus tap water, dosing with prime, and adding the instant ocean or salt mix? i know in some cases tap water will promote algae growth.
also, was thinking for sure i wanted to do fish only but after checking out some corals i may want to add some, slowly at first and who knows as time goes on. learning what fish are "reef safe" and what is compatible. i know for sure i really like the tangs, especially yellow, regal, powder blue, etc. and i LOVE flame angels and bicolor angels. i'd probably want a clown or two. i wouldn't do more than 8-10 fish most likely, probably with minimal rock work and adding as i go.
sorry so long. just looking for direction and advice please. thanks in advance.

 

[grant778]

You don't have to have a sump. Sumps just hide the equipment so u don't see it in ur display tank and some sumps also have a refugium in them. My 29 gallon doesn't have a sump and all the equipment just hangs on the back. While it doesn't look as nice as with all the equipment hidden, the equipment starts to get coralline algae growing on it and isn't too noticeable. You should go with a protein skimmer for mechanical filtration.
Make sure there is enough live rock in the tank. Most tangs are fine to put in reef aquariums. Clownfish are fine to put in a reef aquarium too. Most Angelfish will eat some coral however there are some reef safe angelfish.

 

[geridoc]

"2nd question, i do not have an RODI system. how absolutely necessary is this versus tap water, dosing with prime, and adding the instant ocean or salt mix? i know in some cases tap water will promote algae growth." RODI is, IMHO, very important. Every time you add tap water you add trace amounts of contaminants. Then, as water evaporates, the contaminants are left behind, and you replace evaporation with more contaminated water,some of which evaporates...you see where this is going. Those trace amounts of contaminants builf up, and eventually become toxic eventually. For a large system like yours I don't think it is practical to buy RODI by the gallon - get a filter unit from Air-Water-Ice, or some such vendor.
also, was thinking for sure i wanted to do fish only but after checking out some corals i may want to add some, slowly at first and who knows as time goes on. learning what fish are "reef safe" and what is compatible. i know for sure i really like the tangs, especially yellow, regal, powder blue, etc. and i LOVE flame angels and bicolor angels. i'd probably want a clown or two. i wouldn't do more than 8-10 fish most likely, probably with minimal rock work and adding as i go. As far as equipment goes, there is no such thing as adding corals slowly. Either you have sufficient lighting and filtration to keep water params pristine, or you don't. If you do, corals may thrive. If you don't, they will die and you will become discouraged. I agree that bioballs are not the way to go if you plan corals, but with reef tanks a sump sure makes life easier. That said, if you are dedicated and persistent, a sumpless system can work. Just be sure to skim, maybe add some macroalgae (the tangs will love you for it) and keep up on your water (RODI) changes. BTW - be sure the LEDs you have are sufficient for coral growth in terms of intensity (PAR value) and wavelength. Not all LEDs are.
You have about 1/2 of the live rock you need. Instead of gradually adding rock as you go, and enduring mini-cycles as the newly rock undergoes some die-off, buy some dead rock to supplement the live, and all of it will become live after a while with no problem.
Good luck, and keep asking questions. I am sometimes stunned by the expertise that is freely given away on this forum.

 

[tthemadd1]

Speaking par value. Is there a good thread on here to explain it? I was looking the other day and there are so many lighting threads I couldn't sift through them all.

 

[bang guy]

Think of it as a measure of how much of the energy given off by the bulb is in the 400nm to 700nm spectral range.
This is a more accurate measure than lumens because lumens measure how bright an object is to human eyes and weighs the center (500's) of the visible range much higher than the 400's and 600's because our eyes see the 500's best.
Here's a good lighting thread from the archives ---> https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/170123/saltwater-aquariums-101-lighting

 

[2quills]

No mention of PUR in that thread?
One thing to remember is that PAR meters were developed to measure white light. They give deceptively low readings for led fixtures that are heavy in the blue & U.V. range and overly high readings of red light.
Unless you have a led fixture with colors perfectly balanced to produce a white rendition then I wouldn't expect PAR measurements to be terribly accurate. But they can help give you a general idea.
My .02

 

[cracker darrell]

short and sweet, can't run a sump. it's just not possible on this tank, right now.
i have several Aqueon 90g filters (400gph ea) that i could throw on there or i can use an aquaclear110. i have one large power head and get another or two.
can it be done and done right?

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cracker Darrell http:///t/396156/5-120g-reef-or-fowlr-setup-lots-of-questions#post_3529040
short and sweet, can't run a sump. it's just not possible on this tank, right now.
i have several Aqueon 90g filters (400gph ea) that i could throw on there or i can use an aquaclear110. i have one large power head and get another or two.
can it be done and done right?
I would consider it sufficient enough for a FOWLR tank for now with the aid of live rock and sand.
I just got my 120g up and running. Same dimensions as yours. I ended up drilling it and just making a new stand for it so that I would have the room for a sump. It's more for aspirations towards a reef tank. I believe the extra water volume brings more buffering capacity to the system which helps to keep water parameters and temperatures more stable. You can hide most of your equipment down there. And all in all just a little bit better chance for success in the long term, plus the option for a refugium.
Most fish are easier to keep than most corals (debatable I know). Success (in which ever measure) is determined in large part by the hobbyist, not the equipment.

 

[novass]

Saltwater isnt as hard as its looks so far in my eyes. I would get a get at least 1lb per a gallon of dry marco rock it will turn into 1 1/2-2lbs . Great rock for the money. Also make sure you have a test kit or more then one my api was hard to read so I got seachem and was way better. All I did is get a small hob filter used on most 75 gallon freshwater and added alittle sand and micro algae and my nitrates dropped from 20-1ppm in about a week and I overfeed. I dont have a sump just a fluval 406 and octopus bh-90 skimmer. Also drop a large raw shrimp in and let it cycle.

 

[aquariumgirl16]

I use a canister filter on my 30 gallon. It works just fine. Nitrates do show up, but a water change can clear that up. I also use instant ocean salt. I would star with the very hardy fish since you are new to saltwater