911...help!

[crimzy]

Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/2985531
Interesting Information about Puffer Fish
Pufferfish when threatened can inflate their body by swallowing water to increase their apparent size to deter predators. In addition some puffers produce an extremely poisonous toxin called anhydrotetrodotoxin 4-epitetrodotoxin and is over a 1,000 times more poisonous than potassium cyanide, this toxin is found in the skin, liver, and gonads.
FYI, the puffer's toxin is generally only released if the fish is dying and it will not affect just one fish, it will poison the entire tank.
Originally Posted by ogre
http:///forum/post/2985472
Riddel me this Batman. Everything has been great and then all of a sudden it blows up? There are 3 Tangs that are acting fine. Small Naso, small purple,and small yellow, as well as the Wolf eel. I can do a water change with fresh water but that would only lower the SAL which I'm wondering if that would make things worse.
Just curious as to why you say that a water change with fresh water would lower the SAL. This may seem like a silly question but you do mix the water with salt when you do your water changes, don't you? I'm a bit confused about this post...

 

[ogre]

I prepare the water with salt in a 30gal can in the garage and allow it to mix for 2-3 days before I use it. If I use unsalted water won't that lower salinity when using a 25% ratio?

 

[crimzy]

Originally Posted by ogre
http:///forum/post/2985755
I prepare the water with salt in a 30gal can in the garage and allow it to mix for 2-3 days before I use it. If I use unsalted water won't that lower salinity when using a 25% ratio?
I'm just not sure why you would do a water change with unsalted water??? Have you done this before?

 

[ogre]

I want to thank everyone for taking the time to reply! But all my tap,tap,tap on the keys is keeping the wife awake and she gets up at 4:30, it's almost 11:30 here now. I will check back in first thing in the morning, since being in the construction business means I have lots of free time these days. Thanks

 

[ogre]

I think you misunderstood the earlier post. I was referring to the fact that at this very moment I don't have any water ready for a water change. I just did a change on SAT

 

[ogre]

Well it's early Fri morning. I think the puffer is o.k. He seems back to normal (what ever that is for a puffer) at least he isn't doing what he was doing last night. The wife thinks he was sad because of the Lion. By the behavior from last night and this morning she almost has me convinced, weird. The lion is in the QT and has been since I found him belly up. I tough he would be dead by last night but he is hanging in (on his side). I have been treating with Metronidazole(Seachem) and would like to try any other suggestions. If he does expire I plan on doing an autopsy. Not sure what I'll be looking for so any suggestion there would be appreciated also.

 

[younngballa88]

Originally Posted by Tizzo
http:///forum/post/2985693
Nitrates don't affect fish.
I guarantee that any LFS you go to, even the nice ones with healthy specimens, will have trates off the charts.
Fish are OK with trates. Trites and ammonia are however, toxic. And if we understand the cycle...
Wow im sorry that your lfs's suck but i have tested the water at my lfs they let anyone. And there Nitrates come in at 10. Still say do another water change. 100 is way to high. IMHO i guess

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by Younngballa88
http:///forum/post/2985621

Nitrates dont affect fish.
Is this guy serious right now? wow. Well you go ahead and belive that crap if you want to. I would like to crap up the air you breath and you tell me it doesnt effect you. But w/e good luck. I still say you should do a water change and no dont use freshwater that makes no sense at all.
Let’s see younngballa88, how long have you kept fish? I have kept fish for 27 years. Saltwater for 3. High nitrates affect inverts. Fish can handle nitrates much higher. Perfect environment, no, but that did not kill his lion fish.
This quote is from a web site with information on porcupine puffers:
Porcupine Puffer Fish secrete a type of mucus, or slime, from their skin. This slime provides protection against parasites and infections and helps the Porcupine Puffer Fish to move through the water faster. Some fish species also release toxins in their slime which ward off enemy attacks. Other fish species use their slime to feed their young.
Does this particular one have poison in his slim? That’s a maybe. So maybe the lion tried to eat him and got a mouth full of poison. MAYBE. As with all mysteries, one has to think and reason and eliminate, tossing ideas around is how mysteries are unraveled.
So do I deserve to be laughed at? Shame on you. A simple " I do not agree", would suffice. You just jump and tell the guy to run do a water change, the water quality is not the problem, so in my opinion, doing a water change will make matters worse not better.
I am convinced that water changes, any changes affect fish. IT STRESSES THEM. A sick fish needs peace and quiet to recuperate, not totally disturbing the world they live in. Imagine having a migraine and God decided an earthquake may snap you out of it.
Water changes create swirls and waves, the sound is amplified underwater, and that’s why we must not tap on the glass. Unnecessary water changes are very stressful.
Sometimes, like ammonia for example, we have to run to do a water change, but is not a cure all. His other fish are fine, if the water was toxic, they would ALL be sick. That is when you run, and be in a hurry to do a water change.
So instead of laughing and getting ridicules trying to sound witty, why not help me look some stuff up on puffers, and or lion fish and see if we can help. Working together will get allot more accomplished than making fun of each other.
Sorry for the lecture, but so many people on this site think that making fun of someone and saying some nasty remark is how to express disagreement. I am not a guy by the way, I am a grandmother.
Now all that said...If the puffer isn't moving as quick as before...The above information I looked up says they use their slime to help them swim. Some types can use it for defense which we are considering may be the cause the lion died...
So if the puffers "SLIM" is disturbed, it could make him not swim around as fast or as happily and it could explain the lion fish’s death.
Am I sure about all of that? NO. But it is a thought that I would toss out here and consider. So Ogre, I hoped I helped a little.
As long as the puffer is doing better today, and no more fish have died...You may have lost your wonderful lion fish but your aquarium is intact.
Sorry for the loss of the lion fish. I would do a very in depth study to make sure the two are compatible, once you do that, and are confident make your decision then if want to replace him.
Hey, while I wrote this very long response I see your fish made it after all! GREAT!

 

[xeniaman]

What test kit are you using and how old is it? I have a brand new api test kit that shows my nitrates are at 100ppm, I tried everything to get my nitrates down as well(water changes once a week, refugium with chaeto, bigger better skimmer, less feeding) but then I bought an Elos nitrate test and guess what, my nitrates were at 10. I brought a sample to a trusted lfs and he tested my nitrates and his Salifert and Elos tests were both 10. You mentioned that you have hermit crabs, and I believe that they would not survive in your tank if your nitrates are what your test indicates. I would go to the lfs and have them test your trates or buy a quality test kit

 

[js1976]

Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/2986020
Let’s see younngballa88, how long have you kept fish? I have kept fish for 27 years. Saltwater for 3. High nitrates affect inverts. Fish can handle nitrates much higher. Perfect environment, no, but that did not kill his lion fish.

I haven't been keeping fish as long as you but I've got close to eight years under my belt. I agree and disagree with you. Most fish can acclimate to high nitrate levels unlike inverts. However, I sharp rise in Nitrates can be toxic to a fish.
The question is, what were the levels prior to the reading at 100ppm?

 

[ogre]

I do appreciate all the info and help. I'm on the way to the LFS to get them to test the water. They use the same test product (Tetra). I'm willing to bet that they show the same readings but there is always hope. I plan on picking up a different test kit as a check. The test kit I'm using is about 2 weeks old so I doubt that it is to old. I'll be back shortly!

 

[ogre]

Ya, the Nitrates have always been high. The only time they get any lower is the day after a water change and then they go back up before the weeks out. I'll be back.

 

[locoyo386]

Well nitrates are not as toxic to fish, usually they can be ignored on a fish only tank. If you would like to look at an alternative method to lowering your nitrates before you go into vodka dosing (not recomended unless you really know what you are doing, ie. know the chemistry), you might take a look at this thread;
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/330606/mega-powerful-nitrate-and-phosphate-remover-replaces-skimmer-refugium-everything
Once again I do not think nitrates are as toxic as ammonia or nitrites.

 

[locoyo386]

Hi there,
Originally Posted by js1976
http:///forum/post/2986103
I haven't been keeping fish as long as you but I've got close to eight years under my belt. I agree and disagree with you. Most fish can acclimate to high nitrate levels unlike inverts. However, I sharp rise in Nitrates can be toxic to a fish. (I do not think that nitrates spike rapidly as ammonia or nitrites do. I believe they increase gradually since the bacteria comsumes the nitrites very slowly)
The question is, what were the levels prior to the reading at 100ppm?

 

[js1976]

Locoyo, I agree that Nitrates should not spike as quickly as ammonia or nitrite from the nitrogen cycle. However they can be introduced rapidly from your local water supply causing a rapid spike. Possibly after a large water change.
Probably not the cause in this case since he is using RO water, but I just wanted to point out that fish cannot alway handle high nitrates in every circumstance.

 

[locoyo386]

Hi there,
Originally Posted by js1976
http:///forum/post/2986249
Locoyo, I agree that Nitrates should not spike as quickly as ammonia or nitrite from the nitrogen cycle. However they can be introduced rapidly from your local water supply causing a rapid spike. Possibly after a large water change.
Even in this scenario, the nitrates might not spike rapidly. This falls into the dilution situation. Example; it is said that to lower the nitrates, do a water change => this will lower the nitrates but it is dependent on the amount of water changed (100% water change, assuming that the new water supply has no nitrates than you will have zero nitrates). Same goes for introduction of nitrates. Say you started with 10 ppm than did a 50% water change with water that had nitrates at 100 ppm. After the water change you went from 10 ppm to 55 ppm, this might qualify as a rapid increase, but I think it's not high enough of a spike to affect the fish. In my experience I have yet to test tap water that had a nitrate level of 10 ppm (possibly 20 ppm) or higher.
Probably not the cause in this case since he is using RO water, but I just wanted to point out that fish cannot alway handle high nitrates in every circumstance.

 

[tizzo]

Originally Posted by Younngballa88
http:///forum/post/2985980
Wow im sorry that your lfs's suck but i have tested the water at my lfs they let anyone. And there Nitrates come in at 10. Still say do another water change. 100 is way to high. IMHO i guess
Not on a fish system. I absolutely do not believe that.

 

[tizzo]

Originally Posted by Younngballa88
http:///forum/post/2985980
Wow im sorry that your lfs's suck but i have tested the water at my lfs they let anyone. And there Nitrates come in at 10. Still say do another water change. 100 is way to high. IMHO i guess
Typical. You attack the credibility of my sources (having absolutely no idea of details) instead of supporting or your own.

 

[mr.reef]

well with the puffer i have seen this my great aunt has had a puffers over many many years and when she got the lion they did live for a month or two together and the lion fish got after the puffer and got its eye. but the puffer let off its slim and the lion died soon after so this could have happened don't rule it out..

 

[rslinger]

puffers do that. Some times they are out active as can be, others they will sit up in a corner, were ever they fell when they get lazy. Some fish respond differently to trates. I would say the tangs in your tank would feel the effect of the trate first. do you have a big alge bloom. Maybe you should try a different brand of test kit.